|
Post by turboextremist on Oct 8, 2012 3:18:22 GMT -5
If what I'm hearing is correct (translations are unclear), it doesn't make sense to flat-out BAN any of the notable past competitors, all-star label or otherwise. EVERYONE should be able to participate, as long as they have to qualify. If the old gang doesn't WANT to compete, fine. But don't PREVENT them... -_-
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2012 7:31:59 GMT -5
^ Agreed. This seems unprecedented. In the past, competitors were only banned if they did something to deserve being banned, such as breaking NDA, like Ryoma Kado (sp?) did in Sasuke 23. Also, I'm a little confused about something. Are they eliminating ALL of the old competitors (i.e. Kenji, Okuyama, etc.) or just the All-Stars?
|
|
|
Post by RiderLeangle on Oct 8, 2012 10:32:30 GMT -5
^ Agreed. This seems unprecedented. In the past, competitors were only banned if they did something to deserve being banned, such as breaking NDA, like Ryoma Kado (sp?) did in Sasuke 23. Also, I'm a little confused about something. Are they eliminating ALL of the old competitors (i.e. Kenji, Okuyama, etc.) or just the All-Stars? I think it's just the All Stars, and the ban is only if the google disaster is right. And Okuyama isn't an old competitor, sure he's up there in age but his first tournament was Sasuke 19, He started in Shin Sasuke like the other new stars... Also I don't remember who it was but I can confirm Kato Ryouma wasn't banned, he competed in 27 and made it to stage 2
|
|
|
Post by thebobmaster on Oct 8, 2012 10:45:55 GMT -5
The banning part is what feels off to me. I mean, yes, there are contestants who stopped competing (main ones that I can think of are the Kosugi brothers), but they were never banned. They just stopped competing. To ban the All-Stars completely just because you don't want the All-Stars around...that seems a bit odd.
|
|
|
Post by RiderLeangle on Oct 8, 2012 11:01:03 GMT -5
Now are we 100% sure the banning thing is not just a google disaster?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2012 11:32:13 GMT -5
By "banned" I meant that Kato was cut from the broadcast of Sasuke 23, and was not allowed to come back for three tournaments. And Okuyama is part of the "veterans" group, so I was asking if the "veterans" are being banned as well, or if it's just the All-Stars. If it's just the All-Stars, then that's kind of odd. If they're wanting to bring in "new blood," and get rid of the "old guys" then shouldn't that apply to everyone? Why single out the All-Stars for dismissal? Maybe I'm misunderstanding this.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Oct 8, 2012 11:33:11 GMT -5
Now are we 100% sure the banning thing is not just a google disaster? It is not a Google disaster. What part of Graduation are people having issues with? If they return they can only be in the stands cheering others. The All-stars represent an entire era they are now closing to start a new chapter. I don't see why it's so difficult for people to understand this. When you graduate from High School do you petition to go back? In Japan Graduation even in idol-speak is common as Ube has pointed out many times (but people refuse to listen because they want to hear what they want to hear). I think because no one in this country respects the concept and are emotionally attached to the All-stars to the point of ignoring the obvious, no one wants to believe this is actually happening. Just a few months ago we almost lost the entire damn tournament. Now some are getting picky. Do I like it? NO! But is it necessary given ALL of the circumstances? Yes. Sadly but yes. Do I think it will survive to the new format? I'm about 50/50. I don't know how popular it will be in Japan given how low the ratings were to begin with. Seems the Japanese population has already grown out of Sasuke long before the decision to change formats. Worldwide though the All-Stars are still "new" so the impact on their retirement is MUCH greater. In order for Sasuke to survive domestically it has to do something radical and I believe this is it. This might not work and they cancel Japan's Sasuke and just concentrate on the Foreign spin offs that are constantly growing. This is TBS' last chance to save the show. I don't believe many here realize this.
|
|
|
Post by thatoneuser on Oct 8, 2012 11:43:11 GMT -5
But why do they single out the All Stars and just say "Oh, you can't participate anymore"? Why not at least let them go through the trials like everyone else?
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Oct 8, 2012 11:47:13 GMT -5
But why do they single out the All Stars and just say "Oh, you can't participate anymore"? Why not at least let them go through the trials like everyone else? Would you have wanted them to be treated just like everyone else right now? To TBS the All-stars are special. Right now they are special. They are waving the current rules and allowing all 6 to compete in Sasuke 28 (not confirmed if they managed to negotiate it yet since a couple are retired - including Takeda..). They are going to be RETIRED. I know this country's sports stars have made a mockery of that word to the point that this generation doesn't understand the "they don't come back" part. By doing this they are preserving their legacy and allowing people to say goodbye.. because you know.. it means something that way.
|
|
|
Post by thebobmaster on Oct 8, 2012 11:48:51 GMT -5
I think it is a conflict of cultures. In the US, soccer isn't exactly popular. However, say David Beckham was even asked to step down and retire so the sport could move to a new chapter. There would be a large outcry, and David Beckham would be allowed to stay unless he wants to retire.
If this is a normal thing in Japan, then we'll see what happens. Although to be fair, the All-Stars have been around for 14 tournaments, so they have had as much time in the spotlight as out of it. If they hold this tournament in honor of the All-Stars, showcasing it as their last hurrah before retirement, then that could work.
I think what troubles everyone (besides the banning), is the idea of the All-Stars just getting pushed aside and replaced off-screen. And to be honest, that wouldn't exactly help Sasuke's cause. Though I do think that regardless of what happens, anyone who says that they'll stop watching Sasuke if Nagano is not there is...to put it politely, not a Sasuke Maniac.
Edit: Plus, let's be honest. Yamada's retired more times than Brett Favre. An enforced retirement would be good for him.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Oct 8, 2012 11:53:57 GMT -5
I think the word "pushed aside" is what is grating on my nerves. If that were the case there wouldn't be a "graduation ceremony" to honor their service for the past decade. If we want to b**** about anything .. b**** about Yuuji's treatment. no one seems to be up in arms about what is happening to him. When you compare the treatment between both sets of Stars then you realize how serious TBS is with the All-stars to allow them to shine one last time. In the absence of that.. they would fade away unnoticed and people would b**** that TBS is heartless for not acknowledging that the All-stars have made Sasuke famous worldwide.
|
|
|
Post by thebobmaster on Oct 8, 2012 11:55:54 GMT -5
I think the word "pushed aside" is what is grating on my nerves. If that were the case there wouldn't be a "graduation ceremony" to honor their service for the past decade. If we want to b*tch about anything .. b*tch about Yuuji's treatment. no one seems to be up in arms about what is happening to him. When you compare the treatment between both sets of Stars then you realize how serious TBS is with the All-stars to allow them to shine one last time. In the absence of that.. they would fade away unnoticed and people would b*tch that TBS is heartless for not acknowledging that the All-stars have made Sasuke famous worldwide. Is Yuuji also being retired, though? If not, then he might well become the new face of Sasuke, since the other two champions are being retired. If he is...then he's gotten a raw deal throughout his entire run, save for token gestures such as a high number, and it's just a final one to add to a long list. Edit: Just remembered, he has to requalify this time. Which, well...that's bull. There would probably be more of a fuss about it if it weren't for the All-Stars being retired.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Oct 8, 2012 11:57:30 GMT -5
I think the word "pushed aside" is what is grating on my nerves. If that were the case there wouldn't be a "graduation ceremony" to honor their service for the past decade. If we want to b*tch about anything .. b*tch about Yuuji's treatment. no one seems to be up in arms about what is happening to him. When you compare the treatment between both sets of Stars then you realize how serious TBS is with the All-stars to allow them to shine one last time. In the absence of that.. they would fade away unnoticed and people would b*tch that TBS is heartless for not acknowledging that the All-stars have made Sasuke famous worldwide. Is Yuuji also being retired, though? If not, then he might well become the new face of Sasuke, since the other two champions are being retired. If he is...then he's gotten a raw deal throughout his entire run, save for token gestures such as a high number, and it's just a final one to add to a long list. No he's not being retired. He has to go through trials again to get back on the show.
|
|
|
Post by thebobmaster on Oct 8, 2012 12:05:05 GMT -5
Is Yuuji also being retired, though? If not, then he might well become the new face of Sasuke, since the other two champions are being retired. If he is...then he's gotten a raw deal throughout his entire run, save for token gestures such as a high number, and it's just a final one to add to a long list. No he's not being retired. He has to go through trials again to get back on the show. I realized that after my post, and edited quickly to say such and my brief opinion. But let's look at what he's gone through. Finally qualifies in 21, fails the Flying Chute, has to requalify. Nearly achieves kanzenseiha in 22, gets #99 for 23. Fails the unstable bridge in that tournament, gets instantly dropped to #93 (something that hasn't happened to any of the All-Stars regardless of performance). Achieves kanzenseiha in 24, has a load of controversy for his footwear, some of which was encouraged by TBS. Had #100 in 25 and 26, but performed poorly both times. Dropped to #99 at his request for 27, achieved an unheard of second kanzenseiha (well, unheard of for the male version. Ayako Miyake is still a beast). When it comes time to promote the ANW4, Makoto Nagano is invited over, but not Yuuji, despite not only being the most recent champion, and the only two-time champion, but asking to be sent over. Having to requalify is just another obstacle and crap hand he's been dealt by TBS of many.
|
|
|
Post by wrestlingfan55 on Oct 8, 2012 12:10:28 GMT -5
I feel really sorry for Yuuji in terms of how he's treated, I really do. I can only imagine his frustration with how he's deprived of doing things like ANW4. It just isn't right.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Oct 8, 2012 12:12:38 GMT -5
Agreed. I would have thought given the state of the All-stars and the decision to change the format to Trials only that at LEAST they would have elevated Yuuji to a singular status without the "All-star" name.. something like I don't know.. "Two Time champion" and left it as that. However, they decided to throw everything in flux and even throw their current champion back in the pool to reshuffle everything. It's clear they don't have Yuuji anywhere near the status of the All-stars which is why I keep pointing it out to show the contrast and the reason why I was pissed off at people thinking that the "All-stars are being pushed aside". It's clear the All-stars mean everything to TBS to the point where they have to divorce themselves from the previous era to be able to delineate a clear path away from that format. In the process of eliminating the All-Stars and ultimately the "automatic invites" set up that existed for 15 years, they threw Yuuji under the bus. The implications of that are huge and ultimately speak to the radical change on HOW you get to Sasuke. It reminds me of ANW now. Having had a great record in the past means jack to Comcast as everyone including previous successful (and even recent) competitors are forced back into the pool to struggle to get out in the sea of contenders.
|
|
|
Post by Philip on Oct 8, 2012 12:15:18 GMT -5
I think that at least the TWO TIME CHAMPION should be able to go on the show without qualifying.
|
|
|
Post by wrestlingfan55 on Oct 8, 2012 12:17:53 GMT -5
I actually most heartbroken (exaggeration but whatever) for Shingo. No more perfect attendance record if they really go through with this. A Sasuke without Shingo is not...Sasuke.
|
|
|
Post by thebobmaster on Oct 8, 2012 12:23:22 GMT -5
I feel really sorry for Yuuji in terms of how he's treated, I really do. I can only imagine his frustration with how he's deprived of doing things like ANW4. It just isn't right. I agree on all counts. I was just trying to demonstrate why people on here are making less of a deal about Yuuji needing to requalify than the All-Stars being graduated. As bad as it is, it's just another obstacle for him. And really, he should make it through qualifying without much issue, considering his record on the show of never failing stage 3. Then again, he has failed stage one and two twice each...but I'm staying positive! I actually most heartbroken (exaggeration but whatever) for Shingo. No more perfect attendance record if they really go through with this. A Sasuke without Shingo is not...Sasuke. That's going to be the oddest thing, for me. While Shingo hasn't been totally consistent, he is still a fixture of Sasuke since the beginning. But then again, if they are serious about bringing Sasuke into a new era, what better way than taking out the biggest fixture of the old era?
|
|
|
Post by turboextremist on Oct 8, 2012 13:23:06 GMT -5
So, are you saying that the culture in Japan is to not argue with decisions made by authority figures (in this case, the broadcasting company)?
|
|