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Post by Oti on Feb 22, 2015 14:46:04 GMT -5
The problem with letting go of familiar faces/vets is that that's another demographic right there. People tune in to see how David Campbell is doing. Ryan Stratis. Matt Laessig. Familiar faces that we can kind of relate to. Hell, people still ask about Levi sometimes even though he's long gone. Dumping these people just because they're not winning will cause some long-time viewers to lose interest. But they'll be replaced with casual viewers, which is what NBC seems to go for. Arsenette can clarify, though, since she follows ratings and demographics more closely than I do.
What you're talking about with grouping the slots is a very Sasuke-like approach, which I assume NBC will never adapt. Just because.
I agree with dudesky that this is sad because it's no longer about the quality of the product. It almost never is in American television. Sasuke knew how to produce things and make it feel sincere. Everything in ANW feels fake and forced.
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Post by evan on Feb 22, 2015 16:22:12 GMT -5
The problem with letting go of familiar faces/vets is that that's another demographic right there. People tune in to see how David Campbell is doing. Ryan Stratis. Matt Laessig. Familiar faces that we can kind of relate to. I totally agree that that's another demographic. I was talking more about people who've had multiple opportunities but never made it to Vegas. Not that they don't deserve to compete (they totally do), only that the casting crew can easier justify not selecting them. I think we can say that everyone loves the popular vets that have made it to Vegas and that actually improves the show ratings. |
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Post by thatoneuser on Feb 22, 2015 16:55:53 GMT -5
But I think you can make the target demographic care about familiar faces if you gave them a reason to. Instead of digesting James McGrath you build up how he walked on in 2011 and lived in his van, and now he's working at a Ninja Warrior gym. Build up how he got stopped in Vegas three years in a row. Show the audience his determination. People who care about the show know who James McGrath is. Those that just tuned in to see Kacy last year need to know who James is, because if Kacy bails on the first obstacle you lose the people who only care about her. I know I'm pulling this from my wrestling knowledge, but that should just go to show that this works. I honestly think the audience would eat up Brian Kretsch getting a shot this year if it were presented right and not digested over "My kid has special needs and look at me I'm such a hero" *wipes out on 2nd obstacle*
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Post by evan on Feb 22, 2015 17:21:11 GMT -5
It’s also hard to know for sure what the general population cares for. Maybe they care and can relate more to the lower level competitor, but who knows. We are just speculating now. I think that both Kacy and James helped make the show more popular, and both got a lot of air time and compliments /support from the commentators over the years. I think that Brian Kretsch (along with Robert Ing)went the furthest last year after Yen Chen from the entire Venice region, but Brian didn’t get much air time in the entire show. My money is on Brian for going the furthest from the Venice region this year. I see him at Apex movement norcal twice a week and he seems to be in great shape flying through the obstacles courses with confidence and no mistakes consistently!
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Post by dudesky1000 on Feb 22, 2015 18:23:58 GMT -5
As much as it pains to admit it guys, the casual demographic has outnumbered the 'hardcore' demographic probably since the show started airing on NBC. We don't hear or see the majority viewership as much as the fans who can actually match the names to the faces of competitors because they simply don't care as much about the show as a sport or who wins (enough to post in forums online and such), they are the people who are coming home from a long, boring day of work, and they just want to vegetate on their couches and watch anything that's on TV so long as they don't have to think too hard. ANW happens to be very entertaining even if you don't know who the heck anyone is. In fact, I'd argue that it's more entertaining if you don't know, because once you do know who people are and you actually do care about their results, you tend to become more frustrated with the show for its editing and bias. But the biases exist for a reason, and ANW is still on air for a reason. I'm sure they would happily cancel it with no grand prize winner the day that they start losing their critical mass viewership. It's hard to swallow guys but this is simply the truth. ANW has been a good boost for their other shows from a promotional standpoint, let's hope it stays that way so those of us who have fun participating and keeping score can enjoy it while it lasts.
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Post by Oti on Feb 22, 2015 22:01:18 GMT -5
There are hundreds if not thousands of other competitors out there that can run through gym courses. It's nothing special at this point.
Dudesky pretty much covered everything else, especially the ignorance is bliss part.
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Post by arsenette on Feb 22, 2015 23:50:42 GMT -5
Been watching the ratings for the 6 years ANW has been a thing and you guys nailed it. They lost their hardcore audience a long time ago. They survive purely on the casual. Viewership have plateaued and the amount of people either is the same or slightly shrinking. Ratings are variable because they are percentage of eyes on the screen for that night only. So if the hardcore and the casual BOTH were watching and "more and more people are tuning in" that means they lost the hardcore because the casual is basically a revolving door., Otherwise the viewership should be almost twice what they are now. The core focus of ANW is not the competitors though and that's something everyone seems to be missing. The core is "Mount Midoriyama" (the course), the sponsorship money (who will win it?) and NBC (announcers and course designers). That's it. Because of the sheer amount of people they show over 3+ months of airing stuff 2 hours a night.. no one but "us" will care "who" these people are. Casuals will latch on to maybe 1 or 2 and that's pretty much it. The format doesn't allow it. Reminds me of MXC/Takeshi's Castle or even Wipeout (the rip off of the same show) in that the focus was the course and not the competitos. How many people do YOU remember ran Wipeout or Takeshi's Castle by name? Anyone? Nope, because that wasn't the focus. NBC's format changed to EVERYONE going back to regionals so that negated the need for "stars" on the show. You can't have a Nagano if he doesn't get out of regionals so there's no need to keep him in the lineup and make him the focus of the show. Also, because of the nature of having over 600 people running the course, it's all about highlighting that year's break out star. Even then, it's about how they did on the course and not them themselves. Even with Kacy, you know literally nothing about her personally except 2 things: She loves Brent and she qualified for Mount Midoriyama. That's it. That's also how they want it.
The problem with it and the divide with Sasuke is that it becomes personal for the competitors. Sasuke fans focus on the person's journey over a period of time and that is what is compelling about the show. That desire transfers to ANW longing for the same thing. That won't happen though. The format won't allow it. For "us" who have been here from the very beginning it's sad because you see people you know were either waiting to be old enough to compete, or were actively getting better each year to finally get their shot.. only to not be invited again in lieu of some guy/girl that is more visually appealing to casting directors. If you strip the personal part of being left out it is no longer the same show and this is what the reality is. The focus is different. The intent is different. And ultimately why NBC decided to break ties with Sasuke. The glaring difference between the spirits of each of the shows clash greatly and if more people compared it the more would defect to Sasuke. That's why it's no longer on air in the US.
In addition, it's more appealing to sponsors that you are not tied to a specific person. Remember that when you are tied to a specific person, that person becomes a star and that person needs to be paid accordingly. This way by shifting the focus to a revolving door of new people they keep costs down and don't have to worry about someone getting to big for their britches. Heck, how many people qualified legit to Vegas but weren't allowed to go because of some bogus crap in their past?
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Post by sasukeguy on Feb 23, 2015 0:54:13 GMT -5
Most of the time, NBC has cared more about the ratings then the show itself.
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Post by evan on Feb 23, 2015 2:36:05 GMT -5
Well, one could see all these things that you guys are talking about as problems, another could see them as opportunities (e.g. one who got a call to compete).
Are you sure that you are not over glorifying Sasuke while downplaying ANW? The ANW team performed better than the Sasuke team consistently the past two years during the Vegas team competitions. It's not like the NBC casting crew does a terrible job at selecting athletes. It just becomes more and more difficult to get on the show and sucks for all of those who really want to compete but can't make it. But that's just the way it is.
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Post by Oti on Feb 23, 2015 2:39:46 GMT -5
This way by shifting the focus to a revolving door of new people they keep costs down and don't have to worry about someone getting to big for their britches. Which happens anyway, and still puzzles me. Making it to Vegas doesn't make you some kind of elite athlete, and you shouldn't act like it does. But I guess humility is a cultural thing, huh? Maybe bring some back for us, Arsenette? |
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Post by arsenette on Feb 23, 2015 2:46:00 GMT -5
This way by shifting the focus to a revolving door of new people they keep costs down and don't have to worry about someone getting to big for their britches. Which happens anyway, and still puzzles me. Making it to Vegas doesn't make you some kind of elite athlete, and you shouldn't act like it does. But I guess humility is a cultural thing, huh? Maybe bring some back for us, Arsenette? Giggles.  USA's sheer size and television reach is what drives the change in format. A lot are going for the money and could care less about the "history" of the event. Hell.. most don't even know (or care) Sasuke still exists because it's all about them to begin with. So long as the world is privileged by their presence then it doesn't matter. It's not a cultural problem, that happens everywhere (cough Yamada cough). My point was that the focus of the show is different and that is why the casting choices are different. Trying to project the Sasuke spirit into ANW doesn't work and those who try are the ones that are disappointed by "x was not invited". |
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Post by dudesky1000 on Feb 23, 2015 12:29:42 GMT -5
Are you sure that you are not over glorifying Sasuke while downplaying ANW? The ANW team performed better than the Sasuke team consistently the past two years during the Vegas team competitions. It's not like the NBC casting crew does a terrible job at selecting athletes. It just becomes more and more difficult to get on the show and sucks for all of those who really want to compete but can't make it. But that's just the way it is. I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I haven't said anything about Sasuke and don't bother to compare the two anymore because they are of a different breed at this point. Both are extremely glorious shows. Do not forget that Sasuke is brutal in its digesting and in the past seasons has gone so far to digest the clears of its highest profile competitors. Certain competitors stopped competing in Sasuke because they felt they were getting snubbed and some of the highest performing veterans have been left out of the consideration process entirely. It's not exclusive to one or the other, although Sasuke did honor a rule for a long time that if you cleared the first stage, you were guaranteed a rematch next season. There is a difference between being 'accepted' and actually being on the show in terms of glory. If you make it on ANW, fail on the second obstacle but your run is being shown, you are going to get an extensive, slick, sympathetic competitor profile that will literally last for minutes and be broadcast to one of the largest audiences in the world on a major network on primetime television. Back home you become a national hero. If you make it on Sasuke, fail on the second obstacle and your run is being shown, unless you are an all-star, you get 10 seconds of introduction at best, we really learn nothing about you, we watch you fail after 15 seconds, and you disappear for good. And we'll probably never see you again. You pretty much don't exist. If you clear ANYTHING on ANW, a qualifying course, any stage in Vegas, you are likely to be extensively featured at one point or another, become a human hashtag trending worldwide, and be presented or spoken about as larger than life (you know you reach this point when kids ask for your autograph or a picture with you), unless you have literally NO personality and there is NOTHING to say about you. Believe me, the networks fish for ANYthing they can get to make your success story as dramatic as possible. There's also a chance that you will be asked to be a guest on morning shows, be approached for sponsorships, and you are now qualified to start up a profitable obstacle course gym and actually make a living off of it. If you clear the ENTIRE Sasuke course, well, that's nice. Back to fishing for you. If you clear the ENTIRE Sasuke course-- twice, you're still basically a nobody. Might as well be some shoe salesman. You'll still get your runs digested in future seasons. You want to compare the shows some more? LOL |
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Post by grandpaninja on Feb 23, 2015 12:48:19 GMT -5
I personally feel it's a bad decision to leave out Grandpa Ninja. He fills several important demographics that help round out ANW. If I just wanted to see young, shirtless dudebros with big arms and chicken legs, I'd watch Jersey Shore for a few hours. Or BroscienceLife on Youtube. I agree with you Oti 100% people forget that I am 56 years old and yes I will not make it up the wall every year but why give spots to people in their 60's who NBC also knows will not make it that far. I am sorry if I sound like I am bragging but I am stronger than these people and felt I really had a change to make history again this year. I also wanted to point out the fact and hate to put race into this but how many people do you see on the show over 50 of color (Hispanic, Asian, Black)? The people you see on the show are all the same. I am not bitter it was just a wake up call to me that it is time to retire from ANW I got to run the course for the last 5 years and was seen on TV for the last 5 years. I did not do it for the TV time or money I did it because it made me feel good to know I can. A lot of people come up to me weekly and tell me I am the only one they remember and how I was an inspiration to them. I have had professional football players who got picked to run this year contact me this year because I was their favorite and they remembered me. They asked me if I could help them train and give them tips for the show. Yes I help them and yes I will make sure they know what they are getting themself into. I will always help those who need it as i have had the excperiance. I will go and show my support at Venice this year but after that I will be watching the show on TV like everyone else. People have asked me why don't you walk on or try out again next year. Like I said before this is my retirement call and I will just go back to being me and working out in the gyma like before. |
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Post by Oti on Feb 23, 2015 14:29:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you're getting at evan, because for the most part you and I agree. My only point is that this is not a serious athletic competition. Casting does alright at selecting athletes, but they also keep entertainment in mind. Wildcards in the past were a huge indication of this, because often they would choose people that obviously had no chance to win. So now casting is starting to snub some of their most loyal, longterm competitors, and maybe you feel they're doing this in order to find more skilled, deserving athletes, but it could also be because they just want to include more attractive women, more old people and more not-very-likely-to-win demographics. That's all I'm getting at. This has nothing to do with how American competitors do better in a rigged Vegas competition than the others. As far as comparing ANW with Sasuke, my main point there is that Sasuke had a logical, practical casting process that allowed the show to be naturally entertaining, while ANW's casting process makes little to no sense, at least to all of us on the outside.
Grandpa, I wish you the best, inside the gym and out. Take care of yourself.
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Post by vaughngk on Feb 23, 2015 22:29:15 GMT -5
I don't think having a clearly defined group of stars coming back every year will help much with ratings for the show. Also I understand that people don't like the regional formate but having ANW host a Sasuke like special once even twice every year isn't a viable option for viewers in the western media so having a long more elaborate version like the Sasuke trials probably made the most sense. While I do feel bad that longtime competitors like Kevin don't get back after a bad run in qualifiers it has to be pointed that that the untimed formate of the regionals allowed him and people like Kacy to show they to can succeed on tough courses and not just be another person who failed early on the first stage. The aging All Stars could also benefit from a formate like this which could extend their relevance for another decade. Yamada could then take all the time in the world to get up that wall!
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USA's sheer size and television reach is what drives the change in format. A lot are going for the money and could care less about the "history" of the event. Hell.. most don't even know (or care) Sasuke still exists because it's all about them to begin with. So long as the world is privileged by their presence then it doesn't matter. It's not a cultural problem, that happens everywhere (cough Yamada cough). My point was that the focus of the show is different and that is why the casting choices are different. Trying to project the Sasuke spirit into ANW doesn't work and those who try are the ones that are disappointed by "x was not invited".