arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 17, 2020 2:30:42 GMT -5
We will considering that they have to explain it because so many theories exist. This is cut and paste from the top search from Google (Sephiroth is Jenova). This is the synopsis of the prevailing and dominant theory to explain everything.
"Throughout FF7 and AC Sephiroth is in control of Jenova, using it as he would his own body due to its shape-shifting powers. Outside of Bizzaro/Safer Sephiroth, it is always some part of Jenova in Sephiroth's form, making it not the "real" Sephiroth despite him being the one in control."
In the first link down the page it actually quotes the lines from Hojo explaining it was Sephiroth and NOT Jenova that busted out of the Shinra building. Here's the Cut and paste.
"It's flat out stated in game that Sephiroth is in control and the developers have stated it as well.
It is Sephiroth in control and Sephiroth's will controlling those with Jenova cells:
Hojo: "He's a Sephiroth clone I created after the real Sephiroth died five years ago. Jenova cells and Mako, with my knowledge and skills, have been combined with science and nature to bring him to life. ...I'm not wild about the failure part, but the Jenova Reunion Theory has now been proven. You see, even if Jenova's body is dismembered, it will eventually become one again. That's what is meant by Jenova's Reunion to start. Five years have passed, and now the Clones have began to return. I thought the Clones would begin to gather at Midgar where Jenova is stored. But my predictions were not entirely correct. Jenova itself began to move away from the Shinra Building. But being a genius that I am, I soon figured it out. You see it was all Sephiroth's doing. Sephiroth is not just content to diffuse his will into the Lifestream; he wants to manipulate the Clones itself."
Hojo: "Did you see it!! It's Sephiroth! So he IS here! This is perfect! Both Jenova's Reunion and Sephiroth's will! They won't be diffused into the Lifestream, but gathered here! Mwa, haa, ha,......"
Cloud: "I'm physically built like someone in SOLDIER. Hojo's plan to clone Sephiroth wasn't that difficult. It was just the same procedure they use when creating members of SOLDIER. You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to Mako energy. Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells...... For better or worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER. It has nothing to do with Jenova Reunion. But weak people...... like me, get lost in the whole thing. The combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will and my own weakness are what created me. Everyone knew that. I'm...... Cloud. ......the master of my own illusionary world. But I can't remain trapped in an illusion any more...... I'm going to live my life without pretending."
And Sephiroth is a normal person injected with Jenova cells in the womb:
Hojo: "Ha, ha, ha... I offered the woman with my child to Professor Gast's Jenova Project. When Sephiroth was still in the womb, we took the cells of Jenova... HA, HA, HA!!""
This is of course at the part where Cloud gives Sephiroth the black Materia at the northern crater but BEFORE he is thrown into the lifestream after Mideal so he doesn't know the whole story yet. But the concept of Sephiroth's will calling Jenova and she responded is false. He TOOK OVER her body. He needed it all the way to the end. Sephiroth's last words were talking about Jenova's body outliving it's usefulness. Jenova never reanimated by herself, Sephiroth did it. We just don't know HOW he did it. He needed a body since his was cut in half so he used Jenova (because of the cells he has and the connection to her directly) to do the business he wanted. Do you seriously think that Jenova woken up would allow herself to be taken over if she was in any state to do so? No, it was Sephiroth using the body and controlling every facet of her instead of just calling it's clones to him. Sephiroth possessed the body.. it's not Jenova or her will. Sephiroth (or what we call Jenovaroth because his body is not the one used but Jenova's shapeshifted) is the one that killed everyone in Shinra HQ. Okay, you are reading past everything that I say. I know it's Sephiroth who is in control. I have said that about fourteen times. I'm saying he does not physically break Jenova out of the cell because he is in the northern crater. He starts the call of the reunion which is what prompts people to start going to the northern crater. Upon doing this, he takes over Jenova's body and breaks out from the inside chamber. This is exactly as described in the quote I took from the Ultimania.
"Upon heeding the call of the Reunion, the headless form of Jenova contained in the Shin-Ra building reawakens. It takes on the form of Sephiroth, murders President Shinra and leaves the city. Cloud and the others escape Midgar during the confusion and pursue Sephiroth. Rufus Shinra becomes the new president of the Shin-Ra Company."
And yes, the Ultimania also makes it crystal clear that Sephiroth was in control the entire time. Not once have I said this wasn't the case, lol. That was clear to me even as a seven year old.
What I am saying, and have been saying this entire time, is that there is no separate Sephiroth body that breaks Jenova out from the outside like we see in the trailer for the new game. He takes over Jenova's body and then breaks out of the cell from the inside.
His main body is at the northern crater the entire time. He's not running around Midgar. The only Sephiroth in Midgar is Jenova's body being controlled by Sephiroth. That's why the new trailer makes no sense. We shouldn't see Sephiroth and Jenova at the same time (unless it's an illusion).
On a different note, I've kept away from the leaks as much as possible. However, I listened to one of the leaked songs because it was getting a lot of controversy, and I agree with the criticism. It sounds like they are making all of the songs sound orchestral and doing away with all of the synth and industrial vibes of the original. I listened to the mako reactor theme which has none of the punch of the original song. It just feels spooky... We don't know.. that's what I've been saying the whole time. You kept saying Jenova got herself out and Jenova killed President Shinra. That's factually wrong. Jenova is not capable of doing either of those things. I know this may sound pedantic but phrasing matters. Jenova did not kill anyone in Shinra HQ. THAT was Sephiroth. There are people still now saying Jenova "heeded Sephiroth's call". That's demonstrably false and even Hojo said so because HE thought that is what happened. HE was there to see it. In fact did you notice he was still alive after that whole thing in his lab.
So the missing part is the actual Jenova body being commandeered by Sephiroth. There is zero information as to HOW that happened. So no there's no way that both bodies could not be in front of each other because we don't know HOW he did it. As for illusion? Absolutely. He can shape shift thanks to the knowledge he got from the head he took into the lifestream 5 years prior. This has confused so many people to the point where they had to add in Advent Children how Sephiroth managed to stay alive using the lifestream (again) to travel around. By your theory Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo could not have been Sephiroth either. They ARE Sephiroth. So no the idea that Sephiroth's form being in front of Jenova's body isn't incongruous. We just don't know how it happened in the original because they didn't show that scene. All the hints were thrown throughout the game because that was the big reveal. The reveal has already happened so to ignore that at this point is frankly pointless. Now they are showing it because a) it fills in time to pad out the Midgar section of the game and b) THIS is one of the biggest arguments for the past 2 decades.
For me being 25 and married when this game came out it was perfectly clear from the onset what was going on. That's probably why I'm still baffled at some things that are considered to be perfectly clear but somehow are confused by the younger generation. I think it has to do with perspective. I'm positive you see things very differently now being an adult and having your life experiences. It would be the same in a few years when someone starts to dissect another game and come up with a completely different narrative. You'd sit back and go "how the hell did they get there?" LOL If anything this particular game sparked a lot of discussion. So much so that they had to build more information in subsequent movies, books just to get some of the narrative fixed. I think part of the problem was they crammed a whole story and tried to sprinkle in some of the mystery to reveal later that they created some inconsistencies that is natural in that progress. I know FF7 is not a deep story. I know it has plot holes you can drive a tractor trailer through. I'm just surprised at what is still confusing people 23 years later. I would have thought the whole issue with the cetra and other aspects of that story not being complete would have been the sticking point. They originally were going to make Sephiroth Aerith's brother.. then scorned lover.. then nothing but they left bits and pieces scattered around to the point that they muddled that whole thing. But not understanding how powerful they made Sephiroth and what Jenova was/is in relation to him is still what baffles me.
Maybe in this iteration we can finally get some closure. I suspect they will muddy the waters again. It has to be because the story and it's execution was never this game's strongsuit. As much as I love it even I know how lacking it is in the story department. What we love is the atmosphere and the characters. Even if we argue about their backgrounds and their significance. No idea where you are getting the whole "controversy" with the soundtrack. Nothing I've heard in media about the songs says anything remotely negative. Considering that Uematsu himself made Hollow to fit the tone of the last scene of Part 1 not fit the rest of the soundtrack was on purpose. You know the end of the Midgar section without getting into spoilers and how that big reveal changed the course of the game. Why wouldn't it be foreboding? As for the rest of the soundtrack it's a remix of the original ADDING to the underlying soundtrack. The original music is completely in there. I actually suggest watching this breakdown note for note from a music composer about the the opening trailer (he does it with a lot of other tracks actually) so you see why they did what they did and WHAT they did. I love how he takes the time to explain the music theory behind it. It's a lot more than just a "reaction" to it. As for the Mako reactor song.. there are like 5 versions of that song depending on what you are doing.. The original had 1 version that played in the background. This one is dynamic (similar to Devil May Cry where more of the song is revealed depending on your style ranking). This one also has an entire orchestra behind it unlike the midi tracks that were shoved on game cd's. Even Uematsu's Black Mages album added to the original songs when you got a full orchestra behind it. Maybe because you've only seen/heard little trying to avoid spoilers? The whole album is not creepy/spooky. Only the parts where it needs to be based on spoilers of the story.
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Post by Badalight on Feb 17, 2020 6:10:46 GMT -5
Okay, you are reading past everything that I say. I know it's Sephiroth who is in control. I have said that about fourteen times. I'm saying he does not physically break Jenova out of the cell because he is in the northern crater. He starts the call of the reunion which is what prompts people to start going to the northern crater. Upon doing this, he takes over Jenova's body and breaks out from the inside chamber. This is exactly as described in the quote I took from the Ultimania.
"Upon heeding the call of the Reunion, the headless form of Jenova contained in the Shin-Ra building reawakens. It takes on the form of Sephiroth, murders President Shinra and leaves the city. Cloud and the others escape Midgar during the confusion and pursue Sephiroth. Rufus Shinra becomes the new president of the Shin-Ra Company."
And yes, the Ultimania also makes it crystal clear that Sephiroth was in control the entire time. Not once have I said this wasn't the case, lol. That was clear to me even as a seven year old.
What I am saying, and have been saying this entire time, is that there is no separate Sephiroth body that breaks Jenova out from the outside like we see in the trailer for the new game. He takes over Jenova's body and then breaks out of the cell from the inside.
His main body is at the northern crater the entire time. He's not running around Midgar. The only Sephiroth in Midgar is Jenova's body being controlled by Sephiroth. That's why the new trailer makes no sense. We shouldn't see Sephiroth and Jenova at the same time (unless it's an illusion).
On a different note, I've kept away from the leaks as much as possible. However, I listened to one of the leaked songs because it was getting a lot of controversy, and I agree with the criticism. It sounds like they are making all of the songs sound orchestral and doing away with all of the synth and industrial vibes of the original. I listened to the mako reactor theme which has none of the punch of the original song. It just feels spooky... We don't know.. that's what I've been saying the whole time. You kept saying Jenova got herself out and Jenova killed President Shinra. That's factually wrong. Jenova is not capable of doing either of those things. I know this may sound pedantic but phrasing matters. Jenova did not kill anyone in Shinra HQ. THAT was Sephiroth. There are people still now saying Jenova "heeded Sephiroth's call". That's demonstrably false and even Hojo said so because HE thought that is what happened. HE was there to see it. In fact did you notice he was still alive after that whole thing in his lab.
So the missing part is the actual Jenova body being commandeered by Sephiroth. There is zero information as to HOW that happened. So no there's no way that both bodies could not be in front of each other because we don't know HOW he did it. As for illusion? Absolutely. He can shape shift thanks to the knowledge he got from the head he took into the lifestream 5 years prior. This has confused so many people to the point where they had to add in Advent Children how Sephiroth managed to stay alive using the lifestream (again) to travel around. By your theory Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo could not have been Sephiroth either. They ARE Sephiroth. So no the idea that Sephiroth's form being in front of Jenova's body isn't incongruous. We just don't know how it happened in the original because they didn't show that scene. All the hints were thrown throughout the game because that was the big reveal. The reveal has already happened so to ignore that at this point is frankly pointless. Now they are showing it because a) it fills in time to pad out the Midgar section of the game and b) THIS is one of the biggest arguments for the past 2 decades.
For me being 25 and married when this game came out it was perfectly clear from the onset what was going on. That's probably why I'm still baffled at some things that are considered to be perfectly clear but somehow are confused by the younger generation. I think it has to do with perspective. I'm positive you see things very differently now being an adult and having your life experiences. It would be the same in a few years when someone starts to dissect another game and come up with a completely different narrative. You'd sit back and go "how the hell did they get there?" LOL If anything this particular game sparked a lot of discussion. So much so that they had to build more information in subsequent movies, books just to get some of the narrative fixed. I think part of the problem was they crammed a whole story and tried to sprinkle in some of the mystery to reveal later that they created some inconsistencies that is natural in that progress. I know FF7 is not a deep story. I know it has plot holes you can drive a tractor trailer through. I'm just surprised at what is still confusing people 23 years later. I would have thought the whole issue with the cetra and other aspects of that story not being complete would have been the sticking point. They originally were going to make Sephiroth Aerith's brother.. then scorned lover.. then nothing but they left bits and pieces scattered around to the point that they muddled that whole thing. But not understanding how powerful they made Sephiroth and what Jenova was/is in relation to him is still what baffles me.
Maybe in this iteration we can finally get some closure. I suspect they will muddy the waters again. It has to be because the story and it's execution was never this game's strongsuit. As much as I love it even I know how lacking it is in the story department. What we love is the atmosphere and the characters. Even if we argue about their backgrounds and their significance. No idea where you are getting the whole "controversy" with the soundtrack. Nothing I've heard in media about the songs says anything remotely negative. Considering that Uematsu himself made Hollow to fit the tone of the last scene of Part 1 not fit the rest of the soundtrack was on purpose. You know the end of the Midgar section without getting into spoilers and how that big reveal changed the course of the game. Why wouldn't it be foreboding? As for the rest of the soundtrack it's a remix of the original ADDING to the underlying soundtrack. The original music is completely in there. I actually suggest watching this breakdown note for note from a music composer about the the opening trailer (he does it with a lot of other tracks actually) so you see why they did what they did and WHAT they did. I love how he takes the time to explain the music theory behind it. It's a lot more than just a "reaction" to it. As for the Mako reactor song.. there are like 5 versions of that song depending on what you are doing.. The original had 1 version that played in the background. This one is dynamic (similar to Devil May Cry where more of the song is revealed depending on your style ranking). This one also has an entire orchestra behind it unlike the midi tracks that were shoved on game cd's. Even Uematsu's Black Mages album added to the original songs when you got a full orchestra behind it. Maybe because you've only seen/heard little trying to avoid spoilers? The whole album is not creepy/spooky. Only the parts where it needs to be based on spoilers of the story. I think you've just heard people be confused by the Sephiroth Jenova distinction for so long that you think I am also confused by it. I know it is Sephiroth controlling Jenova's body. I have never once been confused about that in my life, lol. I'm only saying Jenova so we can make the distinction between the physical body I am talking about. Jenova's body broke out from the inside - controlled by Sephiroth. The only thing I have an issue with is Sephiroth appearing in the trailer alongside Jenova. We don't have the context of that scene, but it shouldn't be possible. The only explanations are that it's an illusion or that Sephiroth can use Jenova's shape-shifting ability on anyone with Jenova cells... the latter explanation is very problematic in what it does to the story if that's the case.
I have no issue with Hollow. I was talking exclusively about the new version of the Mako reactor theme. The orchestrated sound will work wonders for some songs (Aerith's theme, one winged angel, cosmo canyon, etc). But I don't think it suits all of the songs in the game. There is an industrialized sound to those Midgar songs. The new version of Mako Reactor misses the mark and lacks the energy and punch of the original. The only reason I listened to that song in particular is because a lot of people were talking about it. I have no frame of reference for the rest of the soundtrack. I've listened to literally nothing else (on purpose). Just when people were discussing the new soundtrack, the mako reactor theme kept popping up as a song people were disappointed about.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 17, 2020 14:26:40 GMT -5
I think you've just heard people be confused by the Sephiroth Jenova distinction for so long that you think I am also confused by it. I know it is Sephiroth controlling Jenova's body. I have never once been confused about that in my life, lol. I'm only saying Jenova so we can make the distinction between the physical body I am talking about. Jenova's body broke out from the inside - controlled by Sephiroth. The only thing I have an issue with is Sephiroth appearing in the trailer alongside Jenova. We don't have the context of that scene, but it shouldn't be possible. The only explanations are that it's an illusion or that Sephiroth can use Jenova's shape-shifting ability on anyone with Jenova cells... the latter explanation is very problematic in what it does to the story if that's the case. I have no issue with Hollow. I was talking exclusively about the new version of the Mako reactor theme. The orchestrated sound will work wonders for some songs (Aerith's theme, one winged angel, cosmo canyon, etc). But I don't think it suits all of the songs in the game. There is an industrialized sound to those Midgar songs. The new version of Mako Reactor misses the mark and lacks the energy and punch of the original. The only reason I listened to that song in particular is because a lot of people were talking about it. I have no frame of reference for the rest of the soundtrack. I've listened to literally nothing else (on purpose). Just when people were discussing the new soundtrack, the mako reactor theme kept popping up as a song people were disappointed about. I was responding to your assertion that Jenova killed the president and that someone else agreed with you. The problem is that most of that line of logic assumes Jenova specifically. There are entire theories of Jenova saving her son since he was "dead" in the crater. My contention of the whole thing is that we don't know when President Shinra was killed, if he did it before he got Jenova's body, if Sephiroth assumed her body after the murder, we don't know HOW he got here. The HOW is the extremely important part and why I have zero issues with him being "in front" of the body while simultaneously being corporeal to the point where he rebuffed Cloud's charge. He made contact with his sword unlike when he Cloud grafted through it when he was dreaming it in the corridor of the building from a previous trailer. Remember in the original that Sephiroth was ALREADY being felt by Cloud before ANYONE was murdered. Was he there in body already? Because a lot of people are judging that it goes by proximity (one theory is the Jenova felt Cloud who had her cells and ran after him to kill him) that had to conclude that Sephiroth was already corporeal. How did he get there? Was it from the Mako reactors being exploded? No because Cloud freaked out before setting the fuse.. so he was there already in some fashion. We just don't know how. Advent Children explained the scale in which he can control things and bring upon corporeal versions of himself outside of his conscience but even before all that in the original it was obvious he was there doing things before Cloud saw him do anything. The perspective was from the party seeing things happen in their realm of consciousness because the story required the reveal to happen afterwards. That caused a problem narratively because they never explained how or why Sephiroth moved at that exact point. Cloud was not the catalyst because he was already there. Aerith has been there all along so that's not it either. So maybe we'll figure out why. I think explaining that will go a long way to cementing the fact that Sephiroth had a lot more up his sleeve than people expected. I think it may be the case of where you get your news from. No one I've read ever came up with that since those songs have been out for 8 months now. No articles have been written about it in either side of the pond either. If anything I read about the praise how they managed to come up with dynamic changing music and added full orchestra instead of the original midi. So instead of the Mako reactor having 1 song (in the original), it has 6 now depending on where you are and what you are doing. I like the updates to it since the originals are not gone and now we have different arrangements to go with the remake. Personally the Mako reactor themes are one of my favorites and have had it in constant rotation in my MP3 player since E3.
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Post by Badalight on Feb 17, 2020 15:43:03 GMT -5
I don't know if they've been out for months... maybe unfinished versions. I know most stuff just got leaked in January because of the demo fiasco. Again, I'm not speaking about the soundtrack as a whole. I just agree with what I had been hearing that the new mako reactor theme is not good. Can't speak to literally any other song aside from the snippets I've heard in trailers. Are you sure you're listening to the real song btw? Can you link me to exactly what you're listening to? Youtube has a lot of fake songs and fan recreations. I've only seen one "official" one on youtube, which came from the leaks. Wanna make sure we're not listening to different things here. Because of no voice acting, we don't always know who is talking in Cloud's head since he has tons of voices. Sephiroth, Zack, and young Cloud all have lines. There are still debates about certain bits of dialogue that can't be attributed to anyone. But yes, it's safe to say Sephiroth's plan started before they got to the Shinra building. Sephiroth isn't running around though. He's just messing with people's minds from the northern crater, as he does for the rest of the game. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "we don't know how he got there". He's at the northern crater. He can mess with people from a distance.
Anyway, I'm staying away from leaks but I heard from someone I trust (who has read the leaks) to not worry about the scene.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 18, 2020 12:30:37 GMT -5
I don't know if they've been out for months... maybe unfinished versions. I know most stuff just got leaked in January because of the demo fiasco. Again, I'm not speaking about the soundtrack as a whole. I just agree with what I had been hearing that the new mako reactor theme is not good. Can't speak to literally any other song aside from the snippets I've heard in trailers. Are you sure you're listening to the real song btw? Can you link me to exactly what you're listening to? Youtube has a lot of fake songs and fan recreations. I've only seen one "official" one on youtube, which came from the leaks. Wanna make sure we're not listening to different things here. Because of no voice acting, we don't always know who is talking in Cloud's head since he has tons of voices. Sephiroth, Zack, and young Cloud all have lines. There are still debates about certain bits of dialogue that can't be attributed to anyone. But yes, it's safe to say Sephiroth's plan started before they got to the Shinra building. Sephiroth isn't running around though. He's just messing with people's minds from the northern crater, as he does for the rest of the game. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "we don't know how he got there". He's at the northern crater. He can mess with people from a distance.
Anyway, I'm staying away from leaks but I heard from someone I trust (who has read the leaks) to not worry about the scene. So far from the trailers we haven't heard Zack yet speak to him. So I hear you on your worry that this part will be cut out in favor of visual cues. I doubt it though since the "voice" he kept hearing talking to him in a calm fashion really shows up in earnest after Kalm and that's clearly Zack. To introduce that would be weird now since the "voice" that Cloud is hearing in his head and "feeling" in Midgar was clearly Sephiroth. That's my take so far on that so I don't give it much thought until we see how they handle that portion. The game isn't even out yet so it may actually be there from the beginning like in the original. I'd personally love to see that as well just like you. It would make sense setting that up early until the reveal in Mideal/Lifestream.
You don't know he's not running around. You are assuming that. I don't know either. All I know is that he can assume bodies and shapeshift. Heck he even shapeshifted into one of your party members (whoever you had in your party) to trick them to giving the Black Materia they where holding to Cloud. As far as everyone is concerned (including his father Hojo), Sephiroth is dead and has not been seen "running around" or even remotely active since his death 5 years ago. That is spelled out pretty clearly in the original game. The anomaly was when Sephiroth showed up out of nowhere been for 5 years and that's why Palmer was totally freaked out when he "saw" him in the flesh (since he survived the encounter being no one of consequence to Sephiroth). Hojo who also survived was surprised to see him alive in some form (we don't know if Sephiroth paid him a visit or if he wasn't in the lab at the time he broke out Jenova but it's clear a lot of scientists were dead leading up to the blood trail) and he explained in the cut and paste I did earlier that he THOUGHT Jenova was the one moving and controlling everything. Then he realized it was Sephiroth all along not being content in the lifestream and ended up coming back up that day. So "WHEN" he came back is as important as to "HOW" he came back. I ask why then, why there since it's been 5 years since anyone has even seen him or heard of him. They thought he was dead. It was obvious he was already being felt by Aerith in the opening cutscene of the game (masterfully shown in the new trailer that she was communicating with the lifestream) before the first bombing mission. So my question is HOW he came back and if he was PHYSICALLY there or not (Shapeshifted or otherwise).
Remember that our disagreement is the concept that Sephiroth would be corporeal BEFORE getting Jenova's body as shown in the trailer. My contention is that since the original game (and subsequent games) did not spell out exactly what happened within that week (which I think was the timeframe between the first Mako reactor destruction (i.e. first moments of the game) and when the plate fell on Sector 7 and they busted into Shinra building and subsequently got arrested) there's a myriad of theories of where Sephiroth was at that time and if he was corporeal. There is zero indication of WHEN his murder spree started since blood trails started before they got to the lab where Hojo kept Jenova but way after the Reactors were attacked. Sephiroth was already being felt a week before (or whatever the time between the opening cutscene and Jenova's tank being empty) by Aerith and Cloud. We don't know if Hojo guessed anything or not but I don't think so simply because of the scenes with Red XII.
The other thing about the other theory you suggested (and is still prevalent to this day) is who opened the doors. This is what I mean. You mentioned that you think Jenova/Sephiroth opened the doors to the cells. There is no blood trail going into the jail cells. I contend that someone or something else opened the doors since the command center didn't have blood inside either. I only suggest that Sephiroth was already corporeal since everyone in the jail was already dead leading up to the lab. The blood trail starts after that when Jenova's body is commandeered. So if we mix both things together you could get that exact same theme in the current trailer of Sephiroth admiring the body of Jenova before taking it over from the inside. Because that exact moment in time was never spelled out in the original nor subsequent media we cannot rule out it ever have happened. So again, no I'm not bothered by Sephiroth in front of Jenova. For all we know that was a shapeshifted lab person he commandeered since Cloud was able to connect physically with Sephiroth's sword and be thrown back into the wreckage below in the current trailer. We cannot prove or disprove that Sephiroth was already corporeal. Only that the absence of that information will allow for all theories to exist.
The "leak" (from what I understand since I did not pursue it) had the full bombing run mission that included the E3 demo (albeit with full mechanics since the E3 version was the stripped down version) that Square later published on their website (just what was playable at different conventions). I refuse to look at the "leak" as well and avoided everything although from all accounts what was shown in the last full trailer all of the assets were shown already so there's nothing "new" in the demo that has not come out yet. They had files and screenshots of characters that are now public from the last trailer rendering the "leak' moot. There's a compilation of the music from the E3 demo from last summer that Max did on his channel. He talks a LOT about the music and shows a couple of the variations. That's part of what I was referring to. This video is over 5 months old and may be part of what you heard. Right before Tokyo Game show Squeenix allowed the NDA to be lifted on the demo from official publications so we know what it looks and sounds like. There's been more stuff that have come out obviously officially (I do listen to the fan renditions but I'm referring to the official stuff because just like you I want to find that out on my own when I play it on Day 1. That said I did download the entirety of the Vinyl tracks that are now public. I'm getting the First Class Edition that comes with the physical Soundtrack so I'm justifying pirating it since I grew up with Vinyl and I just don't understand the fad now. LOL I'm not a hipster.) but it's more than the original 1 track that plays through the whole thing. I did my own video on the battle music (from the Tokyo Game Show footage) that showed the dynamic additions depending on the summons that are out as well. At that time we didn't know how many new tracks were added but Squeenix has gone on record as to the variety of themes per section dynamic to the action of the player. Is is EXACTLY like the original? No. But I think it's better because it's a full orchestra playing the themes instead of the midi version you have in your mind. Even Uematsu whenever he did concerts used an orchestra on all of his songs and they sound amazing. All these versions do is add instruments and interweave more melodies and instruments (which sounds friggin' amazing). They also added new themes that compliment the original by mixing different songs together. The opening movie did that by mixing Sephiroth's theme with the opening sequence that appeared in Advent Children tying that together. No one I've seen, read, heard even remotely mentions anything negative about the Midgar Reactor theme music. Everyone I've heard (and I look at a cubic boatload of reaction videos on YouTube to bide my time until release) talk about the songs giving them chills and increasing the hype for the release based primarily on the music being foreboding and nostalgic at the same time. Everyone I've read praised that there was more to listen to than just 1 theme. Remember the game is a lot bigger so naturally more music has to be created to fill those out. It seems we will be doing a lot more in the reactors as well so it makes sense.
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Post by Badalight on Feb 18, 2020 17:00:11 GMT -5
I don't know if they've been out for months... maybe unfinished versions. I know most stuff just got leaked in January because of the demo fiasco. Again, I'm not speaking about the soundtrack as a whole. I just agree with what I had been hearing that the new mako reactor theme is not good. Can't speak to literally any other song aside from the snippets I've heard in trailers. Are you sure you're listening to the real song btw? Can you link me to exactly what you're listening to? Youtube has a lot of fake songs and fan recreations. I've only seen one "official" one on youtube, which came from the leaks. Wanna make sure we're not listening to different things here. Because of no voice acting, we don't always know who is talking in Cloud's head since he has tons of voices. Sephiroth, Zack, and young Cloud all have lines. There are still debates about certain bits of dialogue that can't be attributed to anyone. But yes, it's safe to say Sephiroth's plan started before they got to the Shinra building. Sephiroth isn't running around though. He's just messing with people's minds from the northern crater, as he does for the rest of the game. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "we don't know how he got there". He's at the northern crater. He can mess with people from a distance.
Anyway, I'm staying away from leaks but I heard from someone I trust (who has read the leaks) to not worry about the scene. So far from the trailers we haven't heard Zack yet speak to him. So I hear you on your worry that this part will be cut out in favor of visual cues. I doubt it though since the "voice" he kept hearing talking to him in a calm fashion really shows up in earnest after Kalm and that's clearly Zack. To introduce that would be weird now since the "voice" that Cloud is hearing in his head and "feeling" in Midgar was clearly Sephiroth. That's my take so far on that so I don't give it much thought until we see how they handle that portion. The game isn't even out yet so it may actually be there from the beginning like in the original. I'd personally love to see that as well just like you. It would make sense setting that up early until the reveal in Mideal/Lifestream.
You don't know he's not running around. You are assuming that. I don't know either. All I know is that he can assume bodies and shapeshift. Heck he even shapeshifted into one of your party members (whoever you had in your party) to trick them to giving the Black Materia they where holding to Cloud. As far as everyone is concerned (including his father Hojo), Sephiroth is dead and has not been seen "running around" or even remotely active since his death 5 years ago. That is spelled out pretty clearly in the original game. The anomaly was when Sephiroth showed up out of nowhere been for 5 years and that's why Palmer was totally freaked out when he "saw" him in the flesh (since he survived the encounter being no one of consequence to Sephiroth). Hojo who also survived was surprised to see him alive in some form (we don't know if Sephiroth paid him a visit or if he wasn't in the lab at the time he broke out Jenova but it's clear a lot of scientists were dead leading up to the blood trail) and he explained in the cut and paste I did earlier that he THOUGHT Jenova was the one moving and controlling everything. Then he realized it was Sephiroth all along not being content in the lifestream and ended up coming back up that day. So "WHEN" he came back is as important as to "HOW" he came back. I ask why then, why there since it's been 5 years since anyone has even seen him or heard of him. They thought he was dead. It was obvious he was already being felt by Aerith in the opening cutscene of the game (masterfully shown in the new trailer that she was communicating with the lifestream) before the first bombing mission. So my question is HOW he came back and if he was PHYSICALLY there or not (Shapeshifted or otherwise).
Remember that our disagreement is the concept that Sephiroth would be corporeal BEFORE getting Jenova's body as shown in the trailer. My contention is that since the original game (and subsequent games) did not spell out exactly what happened within that week (which I think was the timeframe between the first Mako reactor destruction (i.e. first moments of the game) and when the plate fell on Sector 7 and they busted into Shinra building and subsequently got arrested) there's a myriad of theories of where Sephiroth was at that time and if he was corporeal. There is zero indication of WHEN his murder spree started since blood trails started before they got to the lab where Hojo kept Jenova but way after the Reactors were attacked. Sephiroth was already being felt a week before (or whatever the time between the opening cutscene and Jenova's tank being empty) by Aerith and Cloud. We don't know if Hojo guessed anything or not but I don't think so simply because of the scenes with Red XII.
The other thing about the other theory you suggested (and is still prevalent to this day) is who opened the doors. This is what I mean. You mentioned that you think Jenova/Sephiroth opened the doors to the cells. There is no blood trail going into the jail cells. I contend that someone or something else opened the doors since the command center didn't have blood inside either. I only suggest that Sephiroth was already corporeal since everyone in the jail was already dead leading up to the lab. The blood trail starts after that when Jenova's body is commandeered. So if we mix both things together you could get that exact same theme in the current trailer of Sephiroth admiring the body of Jenova before taking it over from the inside. Because that exact moment in time was never spelled out in the original nor subsequent media we cannot rule out it ever have happened. So again, no I'm not bothered by Sephiroth in front of Jenova. For all we know that was a shapeshifted lab person he commandeered since Cloud was able to connect physically with Sephiroth's sword and be thrown back into the wreckage below in the current trailer. We cannot prove or disprove that Sephiroth was already corporeal. Only that the absence of that information will allow for all theories to exist.
The "leak" (from what I understand since I did not pursue it) had the full bombing run mission that included the E3 demo (albeit with full mechanics since the E3 version was the stripped down version) that Square later published on their website (just what was playable at different conventions). I refuse to look at the "leak" as well and avoided everything although from all accounts what was shown in the last full trailer all of the assets were shown already so there's nothing "new" in the demo that has not come out yet. They had files and screenshots of characters that are now public from the last trailer rendering the "leak' moot. There's a compilation of the music from the E3 demo from last summer that Max did on his channel. He talks a LOT about the music and shows a couple of the variations. That's part of what I was referring to. This video is over 5 months old and may be part of what you heard. Right before Tokyo Game show Squeenix allowed the NDA to be lifted on the demo from official publications so we know what it looks and sounds like. There's been more stuff that have come out obviously officially (I do listen to the fan renditions but I'm referring to the official stuff because just like you I want to find that out on my own when I play it on Day 1. That said I did download the entirety of the Vinyl tracks that are now public. I'm getting the First Class Edition that comes with the physical Soundtrack so I'm justifying pirating it since I grew up with Vinyl and I just don't understand the fad now. LOL I'm not a hipster.) but it's more than the original 1 track that plays through the whole thing. I did my own video on the battle music (from the Tokyo Game Show footage) that showed the dynamic additions depending on the summons that are out as well. At that time we didn't know how many new tracks were added but Squeenix has gone on record as to the variety of themes per section dynamic to the action of the player. Is is EXACTLY like the original? No. But I think it's better because it's a full orchestra playing the themes instead of the midi version you have in your mind. Even Uematsu whenever he did concerts used an orchestra on all of his songs and they sound amazing. All these versions do is add instruments and interweave more melodies and instruments (which sounds friggin' amazing). They also added new themes that compliment the original by mixing different songs together. The opening movie did that by mixing Sephiroth's theme with the opening sequence that appeared in Advent Children tying that together. No one I've seen, read, heard even remotely mentions anything negative about the Midgar Reactor theme music. Everyone I've heard (and I look at a cubic boatload of reaction videos on YouTube to bide my time until release) talk about the songs giving them chills and increasing the hype for the release based primarily on the music being foreboding and nostalgic at the same time. Everyone I've read praised that there was more to listen to than just 1 theme. Remember the game is a lot bigger so naturally more music has to be created to fill those out. It seems we will be doing a lot more in the reactors as well so it makes sense. The leaks are much more extensive than that. Most of the game script along with music tracks, audio, and entire cutscenes were leaked. I haven't looked into any of it myself for obvious reasons, but people essentially know everything about the game (or at least like 70% of it). The leak was not the demo; but it came from the demo. SE left a bunch of files of the full game in the demo (including the password to access all of the files), and people were able to see it all. It's not the entire game, but it's a very very large chunk of it. So be careful with where you look. But anyway, yes that is the version that I heard. My opinion of it stands. I love that dynamic nature of the music. That's not my complaint. I disagree with the direction they've taken in regards to the Midgar tracks (this is just my assumption based on what I've heard). They've taken out the industrialized sound of it. They've basically removed all of the synth. The new version lacks the impact of the original regardless of which of the "6 versions" you listen to. This is just one song, but I can make a pretty good guess that I will have issues with the other Midgar songs (which is the entire of this game, really). I'm sure stuff like Tifa's theme will sound great, as that is more suitable to a traditional orchestrated sound.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 20, 2020 9:24:52 GMT -5
The leaks are much more extensive than that. Most of the game script along with music tracks, audio, and entire cutscenes were leaked. I haven't looked into any of it myself for obvious reasons, but people essentially know everything about the game (or at least like 70% of it). The leak was not the demo; but it came from the demo. SE left a bunch of files of the full game in the demo (including the password to access all of the files), and people were able to see it all. It's not the entire game, but it's a very very large chunk of it. So be careful with where you look. But anyway, yes that is the version that I heard. My opinion of it stands. I love that dynamic nature of the music. That's not my complaint. I disagree with the direction they've taken in regards to the Midgar tracks (this is just my assumption based on what I've heard). They've taken out the industrialized sound of it. They've basically removed all of the synth. The new version lacks the impact of the original regardless of which of the "6 versions" you listen to. This is just one song, but I can make a pretty good guess that I will have issues with the other Midgar songs (which is the entire of this game, really). I'm sure stuff like Tifa's theme will sound great, as that is more suitable to a traditional orchestrated sound. Ah I didn't delve into the leaks and luckily the places that I look at my information on it mentioned the existence of the characters were confirmed on the trailer but luckily did not elaborate. I'm happy the fandom as a whole is trying to keep a hands off approach as well on it. Mako Reactor Music. We'll just disagree and that's fine. We have our differing tastes. I'm past the synth part since it sounds too midi (because that's what it was). Every time I heard it with an orchestra it never sounded so "tinny". The "voice" part in the original was a midi so having that as an actual choir was a HUGE step up. Frankly it gave me chills. It gave it the proper gravitas for the song and foreboding nature of what was ACTUALLY happening in the game at the time. It has a bigger impact because the base and deep tones were actually accentuated and when you hear it in your headphones it actually vibrates. There's a lot more minor keys to give it richness that a midi just is incapable of doing. Over the years that "tinny" quality of the midi has been stripped out when they are forced to play this in front of a live audience. Distant World Concert Playlist This version compares to the original orchestral versions of it but adds more tone and about 10 more instruments. So the "direction" is not new because Uematsu has been performing orchestral versions of every theme for the past 10 years or so and no one bitched about that. So I strongly disagree with the lacking impact. Everyone can't shut up about the music in the demo (Mako reactor) because it feels real. It's not "spooky". Spooky would be the opening movie when they added the Sephiroth theme over the Advent Children scene over the Wasteland. THAT is spooky and that's the point. The spectre of Sephiroth is felt now that the "reveal" is not the gimmick for the Midgar portion of the game. Now we get to sit back and see more of what wasn't shown in the original 10 hour version we got in the original all while feeling like you are being watched. And we are. That's the point.
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Post by Badalight on Feb 20, 2020 12:17:19 GMT -5
I looked for the distant world version of Mako reactor, but couldn't find anything. Are you sure it exists?
Also, I'm not sure if it's totally appropriate to compare Distant Worlds to the new soundtrack anyway. They're both orchestrated, but Uematsu's involvement in the new soundtrack seems to only be for Hollow and nothing else.
And you can update the Mako Reactor theme without losing the punchiness and energy of it. Here are some fanmade examples that I feel like retain the spirit of the original song while still updating the sound.
They're not perfect, but they show how you can retain the original feeling even if your goal is to orchestrate everything.
The remake version just feels limp in comparison.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 20, 2020 14:02:28 GMT -5
I looked for the distant world version of Mako reactor, but couldn't find anything. Are you sure it exists? Also, I'm not sure if it's totally appropriate to compare Distant Worlds to the new soundtrack anyway. They're both orchestrated, but Uematsu's involvement in the new soundtrack seems to only be for Hollow and nothing else. And you can update the Mako Reactor theme without losing the punchiness and energy of it. Here are some fanmade examples that I feel like retain the spirit of the original song while still updating the sound. They're not perfect, but they show how you can retain the original feeling even if your goal is to orchestrate everything. The remake version just feels limp in comparison. You are literally wanting the "Boing Boing Boing" synth sound back in there? That's what gives you the "industrial" feel? Because they took that out and actually added to the track by adding about 10 more instruments, rearranging it to have several dynamic versions that change tempo and gravitas you feel it's "lacking"? I've heard differing tastes but that's just petty because they took out the boing boing synth sound in favor of instruments that are not on a midi keyboard. Folks doing this one were involved in the original even if Nobuo is not at the helm. No the Mako Reactor is not in Distant Worlds playlist but literally everything else is including a lot of synth heavy songs that used to exist that no longer are in that form for the past decade or so. You literally are faulting the current version because it doesn't have a boing boing in it. Wow. Definitely not going to convince me otherwise so no point in continuing that strain of thought. You are definitely in the minority in that one. A remake deserves an appropriate update to the music to go with the added story. They did that.
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Post by Badalight on Feb 21, 2020 9:19:18 GMT -5
I looked for the distant world version of Mako reactor, but couldn't find anything. Are you sure it exists? Also, I'm not sure if it's totally appropriate to compare Distant Worlds to the new soundtrack anyway. They're both orchestrated, but Uematsu's involvement in the new soundtrack seems to only be for Hollow and nothing else. And you can update the Mako Reactor theme without losing the punchiness and energy of it. Here are some fanmade examples that I feel like retain the spirit of the original song while still updating the sound. They're not perfect, but they show how you can retain the original feeling even if your goal is to orchestrate everything. The remake version just feels limp in comparison. You are literally wanting the "Boing Boing Boing" synth sound back in there? That's what gives you the "industrial" feel? Because they took that out and actually added to the track by adding about 10 more instruments, rearranging it to have several dynamic versions that change tempo and gravitas you feel it's "lacking"? I've heard differing tastes but that's just petty because they took out the boing boing synth sound in favor of instruments that are not on a midi keyboard. Folks doing this one were involved in the original even if Nobuo is not at the helm. No the Mako Reactor is not in Distant Worlds playlist but literally everything else is including a lot of synth heavy songs that used to exist that no longer are in that form for the past decade or so. You literally are faulting the current version because it doesn't have a boing boing in it. Wow. Definitely not going to convince me otherwise so no point in continuing that strain of thought. You are definitely in the minority in that one. A remake deserves an appropriate update to the music to go with the added story. They did that. Not trying to convince you. Just giving my opinion, which is perfectly valid. "Adding instruments" is not necessarily a net positive, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that. If you think it helps in this instance, that's one thing, but just saying a song is better because it has more instruments is a reductive argument. If that were the case, acoustic songs would have no place in the world. Which people working on this song were involved in the original? I thought the main composer was the guy that handled FF13's soundtrack. "You are definitely in the minority in that one." You toss out the petty label and then you say this as an attempt of othering me. There is literally no way to prove this aside from anecdotal evidence. You have seen people praising it. I've seen people disappointed by it. It's a wash. Nor do I think that matters. This is my opinion. If I were the lone person in the world that thought this, it wouldn't change anything. That's how I feel about one song. I don't know why you're acting so offended that I am a little disappointed in one track. You act like an attack on this game is an attack on you personally. I'm not even attacking it. I'm saying I prefer the intensity that the original song exuded and that I feel the newer version is lacking in that regard. The songs are extremely different as well as the approaches. One is not objectively better than the other. Somehow you can't fathom how someone would prefer the approach of the former. You also keep conflating my opinion of this one song with orchestral tracks as a whole. Not only do I love the distant world songs, I've been to multiple Distant World concerts. I've shook the man's hand, have a selfie with him and have three autographs from him. I adore those tracks. I've said multiple times I'm not against what they're doing with the soundtrack in FF7. I'm just saying that for this one track, I don't feel it has the energy of the original. The examples I gave show that you can update the sound without losing the energy. I'm not dissing the approach - I just dislike the execution.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 21, 2020 10:39:06 GMT -5
You are literally wanting the "Boing Boing Boing" synth sound back in there? That's what gives you the "industrial" feel? Because they took that out and actually added to the track by adding about 10 more instruments, rearranging it to have several dynamic versions that change tempo and gravitas you feel it's "lacking"? I've heard differing tastes but that's just petty because they took out the boing boing synth sound in favor of instruments that are not on a midi keyboard. Folks doing this one were involved in the original even if Nobuo is not at the helm. No the Mako Reactor is not in Distant Worlds playlist but literally everything else is including a lot of synth heavy songs that used to exist that no longer are in that form for the past decade or so. You literally are faulting the current version because it doesn't have a boing boing in it. Wow. Definitely not going to convince me otherwise so no point in continuing that strain of thought. You are definitely in the minority in that one. A remake deserves an appropriate update to the music to go with the added story. They did that. Not trying to convince you. Just giving my opinion, which is perfectly valid. "Adding instruments" is not necessarily a net positive, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that. If you think it helps in this instance, that's one thing, but just saying a song is better because it has more instruments is a reductive argument. If that were the case, acoustic songs would have no place in the world. Which people working on this song were involved in the original? I thought the main composer was the guy that handled FF13's soundtrack. "You are definitely in the minority in that one." You toss out the petty label and then you say this as an attempt of othering me. There is literally no way to prove this aside from anecdotal evidence. You have seen people praising it. I've seen people disappointed by it. It's a wash. Nor do I think that matters. This is my opinion. If I were the lone person in the world that thought this, it wouldn't change anything. That's how I feel about one song. I don't know why you're acting so offended that I am a little disappointed in one track. You act like an attack on this game is an attack on you personally. I'm not even attacking it. I'm saying I prefer the intensity that the original song exuded and that I feel the newer version is lacking in that regard. The songs are extremely different as well as the approaches. One is not objectively better than the other. Somehow you can't fathom how someone would prefer the approach of the former. You also keep conflating my opinion of this one song with orchestral tracks as a whole. Not only do I love the distant world songs, I've been to multiple Distant World concerts. I've shook the man's hand, have a selfie with him and have three autographs from him. I adore those tracks. I've said multiple times I'm not against what they're doing with the soundtrack in FF7. I'm just saying that for this one track, I don't feel it has the energy of the original. The examples I gave show that you can update the sound without losing the energy. I'm not dissing the approach - I just dislike the execution. Fair enough and I apologize for that. It seemed to me that you were against the direction of the soundtrack as a whole because they chose to erase the midi from the soundtrack. I am happy they removed the midi boing boing sound because it always made it sound cheap and for me it was the weakest song because it had that "I'm a midi" quality to it that was the only thing available to fit in a PS1 disk. I mean damn the amount they managed to fit in those disks was crazy and I still am floored at the impact even the midi soundtrack as a whole has 20 years later. I envy you for being able to go to a Distant Worlds concert. It's on my bucket list. SquareEnix Blog discussing the music ComposersThat last line is what I'm talking about where the music as a whole (ESPECIALLY the Mako Reactor) has the proper gravitas. I now know it was on purpose. Yes it is opinion on both sides on that one track. I'm just of the school that replacing artificial sound with real sound from actual instruments will always make it better. The acoustic argument you said works in my favor. It's a real instrument that is replacing the fake synth sound that a midi makes. I'm an electronica fan myself but even I know that when you replace it with real instruments it will sound completely different and arguable better than a computer generating a fake sound. I'm a huge acoustic fan for that reason. This Mako Reactor song having the layers of actual instruments and an actual choir still gives me chills and for those who heard it from the demo when that was released freaked out on the music on how totally on point it was. They never thought the Reactor theme could even sound that way and all publications I've heard and even anecdotally on comments from those videos and published articles all said the updated music made them more hyped for the game. If it lacked the punch it certainly wasn't expressed in anything I read or heard. You are the first to even suggest the midi was better. That's probably why I was so floored by it. You want the artificial taste rather than the fruit it was mimicking. Color me surprised. Added to that saying the music team made a mistake in direction was probably the thing that made my back go up. I took it as an insult to the professionals who went out of their way, who were there from the beginning, to give us a richer more layered version of the songs we know and love. Even if it was just the Mako Reactor, the thought that the fake version from a midi was acceptable to bring to a remade game with actual instruments. Yeah. I was pissed as a music fan. And the minority/majority opinion stems from the previous spoiler talk of where you kept stating that your theory was superior to mine because more people thought it. So blame it on that. Theory wise both could exist in the space and music so far you are in the minority from published reports and corresponding comments on social media regarding them.
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Post by Badalight on Feb 21, 2020 12:56:09 GMT -5
Not trying to convince you. Just giving my opinion, which is perfectly valid. "Adding instruments" is not necessarily a net positive, so I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that. If you think it helps in this instance, that's one thing, but just saying a song is better because it has more instruments is a reductive argument. If that were the case, acoustic songs would have no place in the world. Which people working on this song were involved in the original? I thought the main composer was the guy that handled FF13's soundtrack. "You are definitely in the minority in that one." You toss out the petty label and then you say this as an attempt of othering me. There is literally no way to prove this aside from anecdotal evidence. You have seen people praising it. I've seen people disappointed by it. It's a wash. Nor do I think that matters. This is my opinion. If I were the lone person in the world that thought this, it wouldn't change anything. That's how I feel about one song. I don't know why you're acting so offended that I am a little disappointed in one track. You act like an attack on this game is an attack on you personally. I'm not even attacking it. I'm saying I prefer the intensity that the original song exuded and that I feel the newer version is lacking in that regard. The songs are extremely different as well as the approaches. One is not objectively better than the other. Somehow you can't fathom how someone would prefer the approach of the former. You also keep conflating my opinion of this one song with orchestral tracks as a whole. Not only do I love the distant world songs, I've been to multiple Distant World concerts. I've shook the man's hand, have a selfie with him and have three autographs from him. I adore those tracks. I've said multiple times I'm not against what they're doing with the soundtrack in FF7. I'm just saying that for this one track, I don't feel it has the energy of the original. The examples I gave show that you can update the sound without losing the energy. I'm not dissing the approach - I just dislike the execution. Fair enough and I apologize for that. It seemed to me that you were against the direction of the soundtrack as a whole because they chose to erase the midi from the soundtrack. I am happy they removed the midi boing boing sound because it always made it sound cheap and for me it was the weakest song because it had that "I'm a midi" quality to it that was the only thing available to fit in a PS1 disk. I mean damn the amount they managed to fit in those disks was crazy and I still am floored at the impact even the midi soundtrack as a whole has 20 years later. I envy you for being able to go to a Distant Worlds concert. It's on my bucket list. SquareEnix Blog discussing the music ComposersThat last line is what I'm talking about where the music as a whole (ESPECIALLY the Mako Reactor) has the proper gravitas. I now know it was on purpose. Yes it is opinion on both sides on that one track. I'm just of the school that replacing artificial sound with real sound from actual instruments will always make it better. The acoustic argument you said works in my favor. It's a real instrument that is replacing the fake synth sound that a midi makes. I'm an electronica fan myself but even I know that when you replace it with real instruments it will sound completely different and arguable better than a computer generating a fake sound. I'm a huge acoustic fan for that reason. This Mako Reactor song having the layers of actual instruments and an actual choir still gives me chills and for those who heard it from the demo when that was released freaked out on the music on how totally on point it was. They never thought the Reactor theme could even sound that way and all publications I've heard and even anecdotally on comments from those videos and published articles all said the updated music made them more hyped for the game. If it lacked the punch it certainly wasn't expressed in anything I read or heard. You are the first to even suggest the midi was better. That's probably why I was so floored by it. You want the artificial taste rather than the fruit it was mimicking. Color me surprised. Added to that saying the music team made a mistake in direction was probably the thing that made my back go up. I took it as an insult to the professionals who went out of their way, who were there from the beginning, to give us a richer more layered version of the songs we know and love. Even if it was just the Mako Reactor, the thought that the fake version from a midi was acceptable to bring to a remade game with actual instruments. Yeah. I was pissed as a music fan. And the minority/majority opinion stems from the previous spoiler talk of where you kept stating that your theory was superior to mine because more people thought it. So blame it on that. Theory wise both could exist in the space and music so far you are in the minority from published reports and corresponding comments on social media regarding them. I wasn't trying to say my opinion was more valid than yours when I mentioned other people. I originally only brought that up because the complaints were the reason I decided to listen to the song in the first place (because I am trying to stay as spoiler free as possible). However, that was a conversation going on and I wanted to hear what the fuss was all about. I wasn't trying to say that was indicative of people's feelings on the soundtrack as a whole either (or even that one song). It was just what got me to listen to it. I continued to mention them just to let you know I'm not completely alone and crazy for preferring the direction of the original (I'm not defending the actual sound quality). The complaints also weren't vitriolic in nature or anything. It was just some people being a little bummed because they were excited for the new version and were a little disappointed in it. Mako reactor is not even anywhere near my favorite tracks from the original game. I don't have some weird attachment to it. Now if they ruin Cosmo Canyon... I might have to tussle with someone. I also said that my opinion on the soundtrack as a whole holds very little water since I literally listened to a single song. In no way could that give me an informed opinion. It just made me worried that the other Midgar tracks would be losing something in the transition to an orchestra. I said multiple times there are tracks that will undoubtedly benefit. I mean, as you said, listen to the Distant World stuff. I can't think of any duds there. Also as an FYI, I don't listen with headphones, so perhaps that would enhance the new mako reactor theme further. Also, synths can be rad. Susumu Hirasawa is a composer that basically exclusively uses synths and he's somewhere in my top 10 favorite composers. Lastly, I want to love this game as much as anyone else. Keeping low expectations is the best approach for me. Going in with high expectations for anything has never done me any good, especially when it comes to SE. I am nitpicking. I do wish one day we would get a remaster of the original game. Those remastered Crash and Spyro games that came out recently were amazing. There are mods than can kinda mirror that experience, but they have issues.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 21, 2020 13:38:07 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to say my opinion was more valid than yours when I mentioned other people. I originally only brought that up because the complaints were the reason I decided to listen to the song in the first place (because I am trying to stay as spoiler free as possible). However, that was a conversation going on and I wanted to hear what the fuss was all about. I wasn't trying to say that was indicative of people's feelings on the soundtrack as a whole either (or even that one song). It was just what got me to listen to it. I continued to mention them just to let you know I'm not completely alone and crazy for preferring the direction of the original (I'm not defending the actual sound quality). The complaints also weren't vitriolic in nature or anything. It was just some people being a little bummed because they were excited for the new version and were a little disappointed in it. Mako reactor is not even anywhere near my favorite tracks from the original game. I don't have some weird attachment to it. Now if they ruin Cosmo Canyon... I might have to tussle with someone. I also said that my opinion on the soundtrack as a whole holds very little water since I literally listened to a single song. In no way could that give me an informed opinion. It just made me worried that the other Midgar tracks would be losing something in the transition to an orchestra. I said multiple times there are tracks that will undoubtedly benefit. I mean, as you said, listen to the Distant World stuff. I can't think of any duds there. Also as an FYI, I don't listen with headphones, so perhaps that would enhance the new mako reactor theme further. Also, synths can be rad. Susumu Hirasawa is a composer that basically exclusively uses synths and he's somewhere in my top 10 favorite composers. Lastly, I want to love this game as much as anyone else. Keeping low expectations is the best approach for me. Going in with high expectations for anything has never done me any good, especially when it comes to SE. I am nitpicking. I do wish one day we would get a remaster of the original game. Those remastered Crash and Spyro games that came out recently were amazing. There are mods than can kinda mirror that experience, but they have issues. Hey you are talking to someone that always dies on hills from strong opinions. So no as a whole I was not offended if not more miffed with the notion as a whole. You and I have had vast disagreements in the past and always work it out just differing on points of view. So no harm there. If I didn't care enough I wouldn't argue and if I didn't respect your opinion I would have not spent about what.. 5 pages discussing it. Vinyl Tracks on YouTubeBtw if you are interested here is one channel that has the songs so you can listen to. This is from the Vinyl release of the songs so far from SquareEnix. And yes listen with headphones (although with Vinyl you get the pops and the hisses.. meh) and you get to hear stuff you don't normally hear in the background. I love what I call "Layered" music. I think that's why I love listening to Alex Moukala (one of the links I provided earlier where he goes through the different sections and points out the mini melodies and instrument inclusions that weren't there in the original) and I get to nerd out on music composition and such. As for remasters there have been 2 versions so far of 7. The latest was on the PS4 (I bought last year that as well to go along with the original back in 97). The Crash and Spyro games were full recreations from the ground up to keep to the style and both were games that came out much later in the cycle of Playstation's lifespan and therefore had the time to have a different aesthetic. Also both lost the original publishers so they had to redo the game from scratch using modern techniques. 7 doesn't suffer from that as Squeenix still holds Square's sourcecode. Yes I have seen mods updating the characters (just saw Maximilian playthrough the game with a crapton of mods to it and it looks great if not a bit weird - I loved the hard mode they added LOL). When this game first was announced a lot of people JUST wanted a carbon copy of the original. I was in that camp for a long time when I thought they were going to Kingdom Hearts the living crap out of this game. Since last year I changed my mind when they added a lot of features for us old farts that prefer turn based. That said 7 was never turn based because you could still get your a** kicked if you took too long on wait mode. Still though overall I'm super hype about the changes to the story and the original's rerelease so the new generation can enjoy the original game in all it's glory with a few QOL adjustments.
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Feb 24, 2020 3:29:22 GMT -5
So here I was thinking I would see myself playing on the Switch docked more than not and I learned... haha NOPE! I'm taking that thing everywhere these days. Gotta love Sword and Shield. XD
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 26, 2020 11:42:22 GMT -5
So here I was thinking I would see myself playing on the Switch docked more than not and I learned... haha NOPE! I'm taking that thing everywhere these days. Gotta love Sword and Shield. XD I still don't have a Switch. Nothing there I like.. except Animal Crossing..
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Feb 26, 2020 12:54:18 GMT -5
So here I was thinking I would see myself playing on the Switch docked more than not and I learned... haha NOPE! I'm taking that thing everywhere these days. Gotta love Sword and Shield. XD I still don't have a Switch. Nothing there I like.. except Animal Crossing.. to be fair it took me a while to get it for the same reason. So I understand.
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Post by Badalight on Feb 26, 2020 15:51:28 GMT -5
I've gone back and forth. Originally I wanted one for smash brothers, but that's really something to play with friends and my friends already have it. So no reason to buy it.
Then I wanted Pokemon, but I'm unhappy with GameFreak and the games look bad. So no on that one as well.
I'd like to play Fire Emblem, but I can't justify buying a console for one game.
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Feb 26, 2020 17:36:11 GMT -5
I've gone back and forth. Originally I wanted one for smash brothers, but that's really something to play with friends and my friends already have it. So no reason to buy it. Then I wanted Pokemon, but I'm unhappy with GameFreak and the games look bad. So no on that one as well. I'd like to play Fire Emblem, but I can't justify buying a console for one game. i won’t lie it’s because of the new challenger approaching that turned me away from Smash. I ALWAYS get bodied by them so I get no new characters when I got Smash 4. That’s why I just play Brawl. I managed to unlock everything already. XD
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 5, 2020 10:52:42 GMT -5
Anyone play the FFVII Remake demo?
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Post by 安娜 马斯塔塔斯 安娜 on Mar 6, 2020 5:10:41 GMT -5
Legend of Zelda was probably one of the best ones to be honest because it has an immense nostalgia that you cannot explain.
Majora's Mask was good as well, I kind of like how both of the games weren't made in America.
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