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Post by Oti on Mar 30, 2010 22:52:46 GMT -5
The hell? Intense conditioning and replica practice is the best way to take on Sasuke, or anything for that matter. Both types of training are important. You CAN succeed with just one or the other, but why would you limit yourself like that? You should do both.
The same goes for this. Just training with replicas isn't a bad way to train. The Law of Specificity actually states that it's the best way to train. Now, that doesn't mean you should exclude conditioning. Bruce Lee knew this, which is why he weight lifted to supplement his fighting training, but replica training is FAR from a shame.
Now, about this Cliff Hanger, I would like some more specs before I try to build it. Maybe I'll find them all and post them here.
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baronbk
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Post by baronbk on Mar 30, 2010 23:20:10 GMT -5
I think something that messed people up is that everyone is used to going from left to right, so those muscles are built up more. Going right to left exposed the weaker muscles.
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Post by Oti on Mar 31, 2010 0:10:28 GMT -5
While that's logical, I don't think that's what happened. Even with that much training to the right, you can still climb to the left. It's just not as graceful or easy.
I think the problem was that the competitors could barely grab the second ledge. Lee was able to, but then he fell when he had to grab another, even farther away ledge.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 31, 2010 0:50:53 GMT -5
Two things I (think I've) noticed from re-watching the part with the tester at the end.
(1) The vertical distance between Rails 2 and 3 seems a little larger than 45cm. When the tester was successfully in a position with his left hand at the top of Rail 2 and right hand on Rail 3, his left hand seemed to be level with his chin. I'm not 6 feet tall, but for me, the distance from my upward-turned chin to my first knuckles on an outstretched arm is about 23 inches (58-59cm). If we scale that down by body size proportion, the tester would need unusually short arms or to be around 4'6'' for a 45cm distance to make sense. A distance of 45 cm from the inward angle of the bottom of the obstacle might be reasonable.
(2) Rail 5 appeared to be a bit wider than the first 4 ledges, similar to the landing area of Rail 6 and the Shin-CliffHanger's third rail. Maybe someone with an eagle eye and some photo editing skills can get a better look. If so, 6 inches would seem be plenty of space for both hands if they were positioned so that they faced inward, so to speak, similar to how the left hand was usually positioned by people successfully completing the jump on the Shin-CliffHanger.
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As a side note, I doubt that many people, even those who have built replicas, are comfortable doing the obstacle outside of a two-dimensional ideal. For Rail 1 and Rail 2, the competitors must reach backwards to climb the obstacle.
In the past, any competitor on the CliffHanger experience front-to-back motion seemed doomed to failure, but this new version of the obstacle demands it. I can't help but think that the "I'm moving backwards away from the ledge" sensation each competitor felt had to be an unsettling experience that hampered their performance... except maybe Lee, given his extensive rock climbing background.
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Post by Oti on Mar 31, 2010 1:11:51 GMT -5
1 - I got about 60 cm when I calculated it.
2 - Agreed. It looks bigger.
Reaching "backwards" isn't that bad. Just about anyone with climbing experience has probably climbed backwards. I mean, David can do it. Unclesam can do it. Ultimask8er. Even I can. It's really not too difficult (for me, at least).
I also disagree with you on your theory. I don't think that's what made three of them fall. It's possible, though.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 31, 2010 1:27:51 GMT -5
I'm going with Keita's specs on in simply because he was physically there and he's built the others to specs. Pics from non HQ vids from Sasuke 25 are kinda deceiving for now.. Still interested in what you guys come up with.. personally it's a monster.. I'd prefer if it was segmented in sections rather than one bigass monstrocity the way it is now.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Mar 31, 2010 1:38:47 GMT -5
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 31, 2010 1:42:40 GMT -5
I haven't blogged that far I'm surprised I even know my own name right now but thanks for letting me know. I didn't pay attention far enough to know he did say the exact specs!
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Post by Oti on Mar 31, 2010 8:17:14 GMT -5
Go with whatever you'd like, Arsenette. Just because someone was there and has building experience doesn't mean he or she can accurately judge distances. Keita could be spot on or totally off. The fact that most of my measurements seem to have come out evenly and seem to fit together (3.2m ledge + 0.8m gap = 4m exactly, for example) makes me think I'm at least close. I guess we'll see, though. Thanks for the .mp3, Rider. It's potentially useful, but not to people like me who can't speak Japanese very well. Translation anyone?
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Post by RiderLeangle on Mar 31, 2010 12:18:58 GMT -5
OK, I'll translate, According to the announcer Ledge 1: 2 Meters Ledge 2: 2 Meters Ledge 3: 3 Meters, 20 Centimeters Ledge 4: 1 Meter, 20 Centimeters Ledge 5: 15 Centimeters Last Ledge: 2 Meters So it looks like Sato (Announcer, not Combo Breaker) and Keita have the same specs for the thing. So converting them to standard (good thing we have the internet.. I would have no clue what the centimeters would convert to) 1: 6 ft. 6 in. 2: 6 ft. 6 in. 3: 10 ft. 4/5. in. 4: 3 ft. 10/11 in. 5: 5/6 in. 6: 6 ft. 6 in. BTW, if anyone wants to look for that audio in the broadcast, it's at Stage 3 after Lee passes the Floating Board and is getting ready to start the UCH
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Post by Oti on Mar 31, 2010 12:50:09 GMT -5
I didn't know he got the specs from the announcer. I thought he just eyeballed everything. My bad. Good to know we have some confirmations.
Just gotta figure out the cheapest way to make this thing. Preferably soon, too. It's supposed to rain in two days.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Mar 31, 2010 13:00:08 GMT -5
I didn't know he got the specs from the announcer. I thought he just eyeballed everything. My bad. Good to know we have some confirmations. That's understandable. You also could figure he could have asked someone.. I mean we know he had to have been there.. he had at least two friends competing, and thats just of UNCLI members. Bring a friend to Lowes/Home Depot and distract them while you steal all the needed wood? OK.. that's not right... Steal a chainsaw and make the wood yourself from a bunch of trees
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 31, 2010 13:14:17 GMT -5
LOL .. got wood? No worries And yeah there is something to be said seeing it in person as well. I still think it's kinda ugly lookin'.. just me.. I mean I don't hate the obstacle at all.. M9 was totally going for shock factor and ooooooh boy did they achieve it. I think once broken down into it's parts and analyzed you do see how it can be beatable but I still think that specialists on this like the UNCLI kids have a far better shot at doing this by comparison to anyone else who doesn't spend every free time on cliffhangers.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Mar 31, 2010 13:23:19 GMT -5
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 31, 2010 13:38:20 GMT -5
Well you could do what Nagano and Kongo's son does.. hang off a side of a building
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Post by scopedknife on Mar 31, 2010 13:51:49 GMT -5
Well you could do what Nagano and Kongo's son does.. hang off a side of a building LOL
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Post by Oti on Mar 31, 2010 14:54:55 GMT -5
Me too, actually. The more I look at it, the more I'm starting to like it, but when I first saw it, I was like, "What? Ew. Seriously? You guys had to have THAT much useless surface area on it? The old Cliff Hanger was lean."
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 31, 2010 15:00:44 GMT -5
I think once I got around the idea that M9 wanted the shock factor to be high.. then I was okay with it. I still wish they had a wraparound Cliffhanger or even a swinging cliffhanger like Keita has.
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Post by TCM on Mar 31, 2010 18:24:10 GMT -5
I just noticed something. Looking at SrWilson's unseen obstacles video the tester who got to the third ledge was very close to the end of the second ledge, if not at the very end. Koji and Lee visibly were a couple handholds away from the end of that second ledge. Could that make a difference in making the distance as the closer to the end you get in the ledge, the shorter the leftover space gets, making the reach slightly easier?
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Post by slantngo on Mar 31, 2010 18:37:04 GMT -5
I just noticed something. Looking at SrWilson's unseen obstacles video the tester who got to the third ledge was very close to the end of the second ledge, if not at the very end. Koji and Lee visibly were a couple handholds away from the end of that second ledge. Could that make a difference in making the distance as the closer to the end you get in the ledge, the shorter the leftover space gets, making the reach slightly easier? That's exactly what I was thinking. After seeing Koji fall I thought there was no way Lee would make that same mistake.
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