|
Post by Oti on Oct 27, 2009 18:15:10 GMT -5
That's what I said, but he didn't listen, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by colindesu on Oct 27, 2009 21:56:28 GMT -5
(besides the fact that exercises like bench and squats can make you gain a lot more muscle mass which means more weight to pull up) Your muscles learn to push and pull differently when it's added weight. Bodyweight exercises are natural movements for your body and so it naturally responds differently. I can't explain it scientifically lol. I just remember reading about it on this gymnast guy's page a year ago or so. I'm not saying you shouldn't lift weights. That'd be stupid! I love lifting weights and you're right, it compliments bodyweight exercises amazingly if you do it right and do the right exercises. I used to do mostly only weights from 7th-10th grade. When I first started chins, i could only get like 9 or 10, even though I was benching 230 and doing some pretty good weight on T-bar.
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Oct 27, 2009 22:54:40 GMT -5
Exercises like the bench press and squat do not necessarily make you gain a lot of muscle mass. Conversely, body weight exercises CAN result in a ton of muscle. It's all just exercise and it depends on your reps, sets and rest. Muscles can only pull one way. There's no difference between the muscles that are trained with body weight and those that are trained with weights. Now, maybe if person A does compound lifts and person B does isolation lifts, there will be a difference, but that's not what you're talking about. The reason you could bench and row (I assume you mean rowing by "t-bar") some good weight but not chin that well is because those exercises aren't even close to chin-ups. The chest plays practically no role in chin-ups and the lats pull down in a chin-up, not back, like in a row. Also, you gave the weight, which most likely means you're talking about your strength. However, you compared that to your ENDURANCE with chin-ups. That also doesn't transfer correctly. For example, I can chin with 100 lbs around my waist, but I max out around 12 or 13 chin-ups. This doesn't mean weight lifting hasn't helped, it just means I've been training my strength more than my endurance. Hope I cleared up some of your misconceptions.
|
|
|
Post by colindesu on Oct 28, 2009 8:38:58 GMT -5
I just threw some exercises out for example. That wasn't to say that those were the only lifts I practiced and focused on! I'm not disagreeing with anything you say. It's pretty much all spot on. I'm just saying that a body builder/weight lifter's body is trained and conditioned much differently than a calisthenics person, so the way their muscles work differs greatly. It can be two completely different life styles regarding how you train and how your workout schedule looks like for the week. Recovery times and stuff are different.
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Oct 28, 2009 14:46:47 GMT -5
Unless you were doing lat pull-downs with a chin-up grip, my paragraphs above still apply. And I'm saying you're wrong about the muscles working different. That makes no sense. It's true that it can be different lifestyles with different training schedules, etc., but their muscles do not work in different ways. Somebody who squats three times their weight will have plenty of strength to perform pistol squats. Somebody who benches four times their weight will have plenty of strength to perform one-armed push-ups. Now, whether or not they have the skill and balance to perform those exercises is a different story, but the strength will still be there and that will help perform the exercises.
|
|
|
Post by colindesu on Oct 28, 2009 15:15:17 GMT -5
Agreed. Except for a misunderstanding. I don't mean to say the muscles work differently. They respond differently. No arguing with that
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Oct 28, 2009 17:50:07 GMT -5
And you understand that your statement
Is wrong as well?
|
|
|
Post by colindesu on Oct 28, 2009 18:18:42 GMT -5
Lol bench and squats DEFINITELY are exercises that build strength and mass. You can read that anywhere and I can tell you from experience. No argument there.
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Oct 28, 2009 18:50:15 GMT -5
Yes, but your statement above painted the picture that weights = mass and bodyweight exercise do not. That is untrue.
|
|
|
Post by colindesu on Oct 28, 2009 18:56:35 GMT -5
I'll try to work on my painting. That's not what I meant either. Weight lifting=more mass than bodyweight exercises. Bodyweight exercises of course increase mass, just not to the extent weights can.
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Oct 28, 2009 19:02:09 GMT -5
Good deal. It's also possible to lift without gaining significant mass. That's what I do.
|
|
|
Post by colindesu on Oct 28, 2009 19:17:39 GMT -5
Yeah man that's what I've been trying to do lately too. I'm trying to find the perfect balance where I don't gain too much, but I'm still getting stronger.
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Oct 28, 2009 19:43:22 GMT -5
Five sets of five reps will work pretty well. When it comes time to change things up, work with your one or two rep max. For six or seven sets. You look to be about the same size as me. We could both stand to gain some muscle.
|
|
|
Post by colindesu on Oct 28, 2009 19:49:16 GMT -5
5 sets 5 reps huh. Sounds interesting. Yeah I change it up every couple of weeks. Yeah i thought you were pretty tall in your videos. I'm 6'2" @ 163lbs. I wanna keep it under 170 but you're right, I think I could gain some more.
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Oct 28, 2009 19:58:27 GMT -5
Nah, I'm only 5' 11". 155 lbs, 11% body fat, though, so I'm pretty slim.
I may bulk up to 140 or 150 lbs with 3 or so percent body fat, though. I haven't really decided.
|
|
|
Post by colindesu on Oct 28, 2009 22:24:28 GMT -5
Sounds like a good goal to me. Go for it man! I don't know what my body fat % is, but I've got the 6 pack and all else. I lost about a good 5lbs of muscle when I switched to mostly bodyweight workouts unfortunately though.
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Oct 28, 2009 23:06:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm pretty ripped too, especially my arms. You can see the strands of muscle fiber in my shoulders more than you can in Nagano's. I've always been confused about that one...
I wonder why you lost muscle. That doesn't make any sense. Even when I've taken month-long breaks during my training, I've noticed a loss of strength but not really muscle.
Is your strength still there?
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Oct 29, 2009 9:22:18 GMT -5
I'm 5'11, only 135 lb. Granted it used to be around 105... lol. I've gained quite a bit of muscle in the past 2 years
|
|
|
Post by colindesu on Oct 29, 2009 9:27:47 GMT -5
I didn't notice TOO much strength loss. But definitely a bit. My arms lost an inch. That's what I noticed.
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Oct 29, 2009 10:38:06 GMT -5
I doubt you work out hard enough or eat right to gain 20 pounds of muscle, so it's probably muscle and fat. Weird.
|
|