YGK
Paul Hamm
Posts: 220
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Post by YGK on Jul 6, 2015 3:05:42 GMT -5
I actually think some of you are being a bit harsh on ryo. Or at the very least I see it a bit differently from you guys.
(This isn't exactly to defend ryo, just how I see it)
1. I think ryo's background as an STQ competitor has given him a very competitive nature. Remember that he his entry on the show in the earlier seasons came at someone else's expense. In the same vein he may see it the same way in sasuke even though the atmosphere of it isn't necessarily the case. Hence the way he sees it, morimoto's victory over the course has come at his expense. Or maybe even someone clearing the third stage. It's not a matter of whether he likes that person or not (maybe exception given to a fellow cliffer) but just the fact that someone made it further than him means he has been beaten by them in similar fashion to STQ.
2. I also think it's not necessarily anger at someone else winning. Just disappointment and anger at himself for failing stage 1. Personally I don't expect him to get over the failure so quickly, so to me it's understandable that such emotion would be still be in him by that time and displayed so openly. I feel that different people recover from negative situations at different rates so that may be the case with ryo. After all he most likely set very high expectations on himself. However I also acknowledge that getting over this failure is important to performing well for next tournament so ultimately he should take it in his stride and focus on what can be learnt from this failure rather than just the disappointment itself.
Or I may be wrong and you guys may be right, either way I'm in less of a position than, say, arsenette or ube to judge.
I will say this though, I hope he recovers from it soon and if he comes back to sasuke 32 looking the same way then something's definitely wrong.
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arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
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Post by arsenette on Jul 6, 2015 8:04:36 GMT -5
Nah that's a fair assessment. His personality changed quite a bit. Similar to Yuuji where they spent years just trying to get on the show, then they did and did well and thought something was owed to them. That's a personality trait. Morimoto is fundamentally different. Similar to Nagano, he's from the country and just raised differently. His temperament is much different. Ryo (and Yuuji) grew up in an urban environment and people raised in the Kanto region tend to be very competitive by nature as a way to stand out from the sea of people. Heck, some can say the same thing about the urban-raised Americans. Ryo's change was gradual and once he got to the point where he was the go-to guy (to the point where Yuuji wanted to fade in the background so his friend can essentially take his spot), it became clear that he thought he was untouchable. Coupled with the fact that he was also doing well in the USA where his ego was stroked, you got what you did. Here comes Morimoto who not only was on the show longer, but held up to pressure a lot better than anyone up to this point (holding the 100 just as good as Nagano by clearing the first stage). Morimoto became better than Ryo in both Sasuke and ANW and ultimately the resentment kicked in. Agreed with the kicking himself and envious. I mean everyone is happy for Morimoto, especially since he's been on the show since he was friggin' 15 years old and worked really hard to get to where he did but it has to hurt having been there and not been able to convert on the promise everyone had for you. Yuuji and I had a long conversation about image and what people think of him (positive and negative) and he sees what's going on with Ryo. I find it interesting that right after we had that conversation he immediately had Ryo come the 2nd day and force him to mingle with everyone else to get out of his funk. In the past both would have sulked in a corner. Ryo is still young. Give him time. Heck.. it took Yuuji 5 years to learn that lesson.
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YGK
Paul Hamm
Posts: 220
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Post by YGK on Jul 6, 2015 8:51:46 GMT -5
I agree with what you said but I think that the adjustments made by ryo and yuuji attitude wise are contrasting. yuuji needs to come to terms with the status he's brought himself from winning and gain confidence and rise up to run the course calmly, rather than hide in the shadow and run away from his past achievements. ryo needs to come back down to earth and humble himself and get back into focusing on sasuke as a 4 stage game rather than a free pass to the third stage every time.
Either way both of them need to elevate their performances next round.
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Post by Not-so innocent Bystander... on Jul 10, 2015 10:30:03 GMT -5
Sasuke 31... what the actuall hell!?
I just wanna say that I LOVED Sasuke 31 as a whole. The blend of old and new was great, and I loved seeing classic and obscure obstacles like the Tackle and Barrel Climb return, along with the new salmon ladder (Just the right amount of crazy!) and the Sidewinder!
Overall it was great, but there was one late point of contention that really angered me, and is the subject of this thread. Drew (I think the sole US competitor) was in PERFECT form throughout stages 1 and 2, and looked to be a serious contender like last year... Then Stage 3 happened. What the hell TBS? In the past, new and creative techniques like on the Devil Swing have been celebrated and encouraged between competitors, but all of a sudden Drew happens to be smart enough to figure out a great technique for the Crazy Cliffhanger (An obstacle that is already arguably too hard and luck based anyway depending on weight)... and he almost gets disqualified.
Drew earned his way past that obstacle, and you could see how utterly disappointed and shocked he was when he had to re-attempt it and failed. TBS seriously dropped the ball and I think I have a theory as to why this happened. Between TBS making it nearly impossible for US athletes to enter Sasuke and the utter bulls**t that NBC caused with the "USA VS" Spinoffs, I'd say that they did this on purpose as revenge. I almost guarantee that if it was a Japanese competitor, they wouldn't have disqualified them or at the very least TOLD THEM about the made up rule in advance. Because of what they did, Drew was screwed from the start, as it is basically impossible for a man of his size, stature and weight to complete the obstacle in the traditional way. He came with a plan and TBS knew he could potentially achieve Kanzenseiha, so TBS sabotaged him because they were too bitter to accept even the POSSIBILITY of there being an American champion.
All my congratulations go to Morimoto for his awesome total victory, the first since Yuuji's 2nd, but the whole Drew thing seriously just left a bitter taste in my mouth. And before you say this is just American patriotism talking, i'm from the UK... If this truly is the final Sasuke, then I'm glad there was a Kanzenseiha, but i'm also sad that American/Japanese relations on the course have turned so sour. What do you guys think? Hit me up below!
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gt4dom
Jessie Graff
Posts: 1,059
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Post by gt4dom on Jul 10, 2015 10:48:24 GMT -5
First of all this should be in SASUKE 31 board with spoiler on the title =P
Secondly WTF!?!?
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Kristine
Igano Hibari
サスケオタク !
Posts: 37
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Post by Kristine on Jul 10, 2015 10:53:52 GMT -5
It was discussed why Drew had a re-run in the 3rd Stage. There was no sabotaging and whatnot. It was because of Health and Safety.. The way Drew did the CCH on his first attempt was more dangerous, the chances of (worse) possible injuries are high if he did that way of clearing the CCH.. Basically Inui had to play the bad guy and save Drew's image...
P.S - if you're posting a thread which is related to the recent tournament we have a board for that and please put spoilers in the title ty
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Post by peytonblitz on Jul 10, 2015 11:24:53 GMT -5
Most people are mad or upset about this, and yes it does suck but I'm fine with it. Health and Safety deemed it unsafe to do that technique (which is dumb in my opinion) and there was some communication issues between the languages toward him and he was not informed about it. It's not a new thing this has happened before in Sasuke. Does anyone remember Sasuke 25 where Levi had to run Stage 1 twice because he used his hand on the Dome Steps, which was not allowed, we should be lucky either of them were allowed the re-run in my opinion. TBS had nothing to do with the rule there was no "sabotage" or "revenge" or "hatred toward the Americans" in this situation, it was Health and Safety. If you're going to blame anyone, blame them.
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Post by TCM on Jul 10, 2015 12:49:40 GMT -5
On top of what everyone else said, if TBS (and Inui for that matter) really wanted to sabotage Drew, they would have shown him (even if justifiably) having a fit when he was told he was DQ'd. Instead, they salvaged what they could by showing his 2nd run without any sort of mention anything was amiss. He got partially digested, but Inui edits weirdly to most people anyways. That would have soured him to the viewers tenfold, having some American guest 'not appreciate the privilege he has getting to run the course,' to think of a way it could be spun. Staff should have told him the rule was in place. Drew was in the right to protest. But playing Devil's Advocate, Drew should try to also find a way to get it done the traditional way if top heavy guys like Shinya and Kanno can do it (Kanno needing 4 tries to do it).
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Post by Philip on Jul 10, 2015 13:13:26 GMT -5
Considering how f***ing boring the 3rd stage was with everyone failing the luck based CH I think that they should have at least let him clear it.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jul 10, 2015 14:11:33 GMT -5
Considering how f***ing boring the 3rd stage was with everyone failing the luck based CH I think that they should have at least let him clear it. An obstacle that requires strength, skill, and precision is not luck based.
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Post by Philip on Jul 10, 2015 14:20:26 GMT -5
Considering how f***ing boring the 3rd stage was with everyone failing the luck based CH I think that they should have at least let him clear it. An obstacle that requires strength, skill, and precision is not luck based. There's too much precision required. I wish that the early obstacles were harder so that the fails would be more balanced throughout the stage. They might as well have just made the course that one jump.
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Post by Not-so innocent Bystander... on Jul 10, 2015 14:37:22 GMT -5
An obstacle that requires strength, skill, and precision is not luck based. There's too much precision required. I wish that the early obstacles were harder so that the fails would be more balanced throughout the stage. They might as well have just made the course that one jump. But it is. It has been proven that for anyone above a certain weight, the CC is nearly impossible to complete, as even with perfect timing and skill their weight deags them down. I really think they should make something different. Proof that it is luck based comes from the pass rate. All other cliffhangers became widely passed and less of a threat due to people practicing. There is clearly no shortage of CC practice, yet it still eliminates a huge chunk of competitors anyway.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 16:06:31 GMT -5
There's too much precision required. I wish that the early obstacles were harder so that the fails would be more balanced throughout the stage. They might as well have just made the course that one jump. But it is. It has been proven that for anyone above a certain weight, the CC is nearly impossible to complete, as even with perfect timing and skill their weight deags them down. I really think they should make something different. Proof that it is luck based comes from the pass rate. All other cliffhangers became widely passed and less of a threat due to people practicing. There is clearly no shortage of CC practice, yet it still eliminates a huge chunk of competitors anyway. Case in point, Paul Terek. Look at how he was barely able to hang on to Version 3 and it took everything he had just to get to get to the middle of the first ledge. There'd be no way in hell he'd land that jump.
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Post by Shuberb674 on Jul 10, 2015 16:39:06 GMT -5
But it is. It has been proven that for anyone above a certain weight, the CC is nearly impossible to complete, as even with perfect timing and skill their weight deags them down. I really think they should make something different. Proof that it is luck based comes from the pass rate. All other cliffhangers became widely passed and less of a threat due to people practicing. There is clearly no shortage of CC practice, yet it still eliminates a huge chunk of competitors anyway. Case in point, Paul Terek. Look at how he was barely able to hang on to Version 3 and it took everything he had just to get to get to the middle of the first ledge. There'd be no way in hell he'd land that jump. Then people like Drew and Paul can't win Sasuke. ANW won't change their course for the Japanese in USA vs The World, why should Japan change their course for heavier people and whiny kids on the internet? All this **** about the CCH being luck, PLENTY of people failed cliffhanger 9-17 after completing it, that was down the it being endurance. Maybe things like the sidewinder drain strength and thats why Kawaguchi failed?
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Post by Not-so innocent Bystander... on Jul 10, 2015 18:27:53 GMT -5
Case in point, Paul Terek. Look at how he was barely able to hang on to Version 3 and it took everything he had just to get to get to the middle of the first ledge. There'd be no way in hell he'd land that jump. Then people like Drew and Paul can't win Sasuke. ANW won't change their course for the Japanese in USA vs The World, why should Japan change their course for heavier people and whiny kids on the internet? All this **** about the CCH being luck, PLENTY of people failed cliffhanger 9-17 after completing it, that was down the it being endurance. Maybe things like the sidewinder drain strength and thats why Kawaguchi failed? But the Crazy Cliffhanger was never designed to be an endurance obstacle, just one that requires huge amount of skill, strength and luck. The problem isn't that the competitors lack skill or strength, the problem is that when you turn around as you jump across, it is essetially s leap of faith, with it being pure luck if you grap the ledge correctly. People who are described as not very fatigued, and who are incredibly skilled failed, proof of how utterly random this obstacle is.
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Post by RobbyMac on Jul 10, 2015 18:34:41 GMT -5
So you're saying when a guy does a 360 windmill slam in basketball it's pure luck? The CCH isn't pureluck. There's a reason why Ryo and Morimoto have never failed it.
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Post by wrestlingfan55 on Jul 10, 2015 18:58:41 GMT -5
I don't think it's really luck-based. It's just ridiculously hard even if you have practiced it a ton. Maybe it's a good thing, maybe not.
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Post by SasukeForever on Jul 10, 2015 21:45:33 GMT -5
I think it's more of a fatigue issue why it's so hard. The obstacle before is not easy. 28 and 29 minus Kongu the Iron Paddler was devastating, 30 the Drum Hopper was tricky and somewhat draining on forearms, 31 the sidewinder was a really good all around test that no one got through easily. So it's not JUST the difficulty of the CCH.
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Amber
Yamada Kōji
Striker 2.0
"The Earth is round you square"
Posts: 1,112
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Post by Amber on Jul 11, 2015 0:52:35 GMT -5
In all honesty, I think they stopped Drew for it so if there was not a Kanzenseiha and the CCH would stay on the course for another tournament, that it wouldn't encourage people to train for it the way Drew did it, which was against H&S
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arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
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Post by arsenette on Jul 11, 2015 6:05:12 GMT -5
Sasuke 31... what the actuall hell!?
I just wanna say that I LOVED Sasuke 31 as a whole. The blend of old and new was great, and I loved seeing classic and obscure obstacles like the Tackle and Barrel Climb return, along with the new salmon ladder (Just the right amount of crazy!) and the Sidewinder!
Overall it was great, but there was one late point of contention that really angered me, and is the subject of this thread. Drew (I think the sole US competitor) was in PERFECT form throughout stages 1 and 2, and looked to be a serious contender like last year... Then Stage 3 happened. What the hell TBS? In the past, new and creative techniques like on the Devil Swing have been celebrated and encouraged between competitors, but all of a sudden Drew happens to be smart enough to figure out a great technique for the Crazy Cliffhanger (An obstacle that is already arguably too hard and luck based anyway depending on weight)... and he almost gets disqualified.
Drew earned his way past that obstacle, and you could see how utterly disappointed and shocked he was when he had to re-attempt it and failed. TBS seriously dropped the ball and I think I have a theory as to why this happened. Between TBS making it nearly impossible for US athletes to enter Sasuke and the utter bulls**t that NBC caused with the "USA VS" Spinoffs, I'd say that they did this on purpose as revenge. I almost guarantee that if it was a Japanese competitor, they wouldn't have disqualified them or at the very least TOLD THEM about the made up rule in advance. Because of what they did, Drew was screwed from the start, as it is basically impossible for a man of his size, stature and weight to complete the obstacle in the traditional way. He came with a plan and TBS knew he could potentially achieve Kanzenseiha, so TBS sabotaged him because they were too bitter to accept even the POSSIBILITY of there being an American champion.
All my congratulations go to Morimoto for his awesome total victory, the first since Yuuji's 2nd, but the whole Drew thing seriously just left a bitter taste in my mouth. And before you say this is just American patriotism talking, i'm from the UK... If this truly is the final Sasuke, then I'm glad there was a Kanzenseiha, but i'm also sad that American/Japanese relations on the course have turned so sour. What do you guys think? Hit me up below! Okay.. I had to take a break from SMF because the amount of misinformation that is allowed by mods to continue is setting me into a rage. However THIS post in particular I was asked by a few people to come back and correct. FIRST.. TBS didn't sabotage anyone. If anything, it was oversight for something that was generally known by everyone at this point. I mentioned it in the podcast already (which was taped before this post) and I went out of my way to explain it on chat but apparently my words got twisted or people read what they wanted to hear. Lalaport last year you had Yuuji and a few others doing that turn around technique that they do in private (and have been for YEARS). Hell Morimoto did it when he created the CCH about 7 years ago if you really want to get technical. The thing that is significant about Lalaport is that they did it in PUBLIC.. several videos (this is one) got out of the guys goofing around doing that exact same technique. In this one you see Jin turning around on that (he did complete it later but not on this particular video. This was all day long they did this. More importantly, TBS was in attendance when Yuuji did it (his video is not online anymore) and they were politely told to stop doing that in front of the kids because "you know it's not allowed in Sasuke". Everyone agrees that the thing looks cool when you clear it. Remember, this was AFTER Sasuke 30's taping so Drew was already back at home however discussion about this was online for months. So I have no idea where anyone is getting this BS that the rule was completely made up or that Drew magically came up with this technique on his own. No offense to Drew but this was a common hotdog technique that everyone has done at least once and the stars do all the time in private. Drew unfortunately was not told of that change because it was not brought up at Sasuke. I'm told he wrote it out on his application/information sheet but TBS either didn't understand it or didn't communicate it to anyone in the production team. Inui wasn't told. To give you an idea.. "I" even knew of the rule sitting in the stands in Stage 3. The second he turned around I knew what he was doing was wrong. TBS International (the people who invited him) should have told him if they understood what he wrote down on that sheet. Inui figuring out that it was a miscommunication issue gave him a rerun. Drew failed the rerun because he didn't train with the twist by his own admission. He said in person that the twist was more difficult and he has trouble with it so that's why he trained turned around. Drew should have trained the proper way to begin with as that is has been the standard way of clearing for 3 tournaments in a row. While it's pretty to look at, it's dangerous. Similar to doing a triple axle in Figure skating, as soon as you go forward you lose your balance and are not stable. That's what H&S and the production team deemed. EVERYONE in Japan knew the rule. Heck. JIN knew the rule and he's not Japanese. I'm honestly a little baffled as to how Drew didn't know given how close he is to other competitors unless he didn't communicate he was going to do it this year. This conversation has happened online months before Sasuke 31 happened. I distinctly remember Drew bringing it up because he was going to do it last year and changed his mind and did the twist. So I was a little surprised that he didn't know given that it was brought up at length last year. My guess is that it got lost in the conversation and not discussed because the issue was considered "understood" among everyone to be illegal and Drew was left out of the loop unintentionally. Again, it was generally understood by everyone that it was illegal and even I knew it sitting on my computer in friggin' New Jersey. Also, given that this post is after a pretty large thread stating that it is not the last Sasuke, more misinformation is being spread. American/Japanese relations between competitors are fine. Hell the competitors LOVE Drew and talk to each other constantly about training on Facebook almost on a daily basis. In Japan they were crawling over each other just to train with Drew. NBC/TBS have their own issues that is separate from the competitors. It always has been this way. TBS didn't sabotage anything. In fact they expected Drew to win and asked NBC permission to put him on the show KNOWING he could win so while I have my own issues with TBS International, don't spread unnecessary rumors to fit your version of events. If anyone is sabotaging anything, point your finger at NBC who does that often to Team Japan with no shame whatsoever. If they truly hated Drew they would not have gone out of their way to invite him. They would not have given him a rerun and more importantly they would not have covered up the whole incident on television. If they truly wanted to sink him they would have shown the whole thing. Finally this entire thread should have been in the main discussion thread behind a spoiler wall the way it was requested. It is obvious from the OG that he didn't bother reading that thread since we already discussed in detail about this issue. Drew wasn't screwed, TBS is not being a**es to the Americans and no one is trying to sink the foreigners because they are trying to keep a Japanese champion. Don't bring racist problems and throw them all over Sasuke. It enrages me considering how much effort is put into even GETTING Americans back on this damn show in the first place.
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