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Post by TCM on Apr 21, 2010 15:40:16 GMT -5
Read sheep's post, he put it into much better words than me and it only took 1 sentence. No, you still don't understand what I mean. If Yuuji and Nagano go at the same pace, and work just as hard as one another, they should fail at the same place right? No... because Yuuji had a better transistion, so he actually ended up getting kanzenseiha with 15 seconds left, even though him and Nagano went at the same speed. That's what I don't want to happen. Simplicity is key for the final stage. It should be about speed and strength, not dumb technicalities. The less variables to consider the better. That's how I believe the final stage should be. It's my own opinion so don't dog on me for it, and obviously as seen by Sheep it's shared by other people, so don't single me out. I'd much rather have something like a single 22m rope climb than a 5 meter spider walk, then a 5 meter ladder, then a 5 meter rope climb, then a 5 meter salmon ladder, then a 2 meter sprint up some stairs to the finish. That's silly. I'm "dogging" you because like you said, Sheep put what you were trying to say in better words, instead of sounding like you were rambling on because of the error Kunoichi 8's final had. Plus, I didn't single you out, the time I took from quoting you to actually posting my reply was big enough for Sheep to post, so I never ended up seeing his. I understand your point better now, but with your last few lines, it still seems like you're expecting M9 to come up with some stupid clutter because you keep referring to Kunoichi 8 which had problems from the outright. Maybe the stage would seem a bit more straightforward if they had fixed the wall issue, because when you have 50-40 sec left, if I'm not confident on it, I'd take my time as well which it seems Rie did which made the results so lopsided. All I'm saying at this point is don't base concerns off of something that never seemed to be set up right to begin with (had to be some reason it was taken down), let alone it being with Kunoichi as they have always treated Sasuke with a bit more respect. Plus, it still seems to be 23M, so who knows what will happen.
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Post by SRW on Apr 21, 2010 17:25:13 GMT -5
OK.. if it was a salmon ladder up to the top we would have already seen parts of it.. Even the 5-17 Spider Climb was pretty damn visible in the day (even making them put the 100 competitors shots everywhere to standing in front of the second stage or waiting until night to standing at the tower). But look.. If there was a Salmon Ladder final we'd see it here because that'd take all day to set up day of.. There was nothing there between the walls either all the time during shin sasuke either they only put the ladder and rope in place when it was being set up . Similar case here I suspect something simple to hang or rig up fairly quickly. If there was a spider climb the walls would be there already all the time.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Apr 21, 2010 18:16:27 GMT -5
That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.. it would take all day to set up a salmon ladder that size.. so by the tower shot it'd either be already set up (Or at least a big series of tarps) or there would be a bunch of people working on it at the time of the tower shot.. So we can establish it's a simple kind of final stage.
All you guys saying single rope climb if you think about it that can't be the best idea.. What's the one thing everyone practices for the Final Stage? Rope Climbing.. Look at how many people rope climb in their profile vids (I mean in Japan.. no offense but most of the ANC/ANW guys don't have a chance on the final stage if their vids are any indication). Also, I know it might not be so relevant because of the height difference but look at the Kanzenseiha times left Akiyama: 6.0 Nagano: 2.5 Yuuji: 3.5
So if you consider how the Final Stage time is usually set by testers and how their "impossible" has led to near misses in Shin Sasuke I can see them going with a 35-40 second time limit which will be easily beaten. So I really can see them going with something different. But so far it seems the most likely of what people have said since most people have ideas that take time to set up but I don't see them going for the single rope climb thing...
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Lennon
Levi Meeuwenberg
Posts: 793
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Post by Lennon on Apr 21, 2010 19:27:38 GMT -5
Well, what if they just made it still a 30 second rope climb, just longer. THAT will make it hard.
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Post by Badalight on Apr 21, 2010 20:02:25 GMT -5
Read sheep's post, he put it into much better words than me and it only took 1 sentence. No, you still don't understand what I mean. If Yuuji and Nagano go at the same pace, and work just as hard as one another, they should fail at the same place right? No... because Yuuji had a better transistion, so he actually ended up getting kanzenseiha with 15 seconds left, even though him and Nagano went at the same speed. That's what I don't want to happen. Simplicity is key for the final stage. It should be about speed and strength, not dumb technicalities. The less variables to consider the better. That's how I believe the final stage should be. It's my own opinion so don't dog on me for it, and obviously as seen by Sheep it's shared by other people, so don't single me out. I'd much rather have something like a single 22m rope climb than a 5 meter spider walk, then a 5 meter ladder, then a 5 meter rope climb, then a 5 meter salmon ladder, then a 2 meter sprint up some stairs to the finish. That's silly. I'm "dogging" you because like you said, Sheep put what you were trying to say in better words, instead of sounding like you were rambling on because of the error Kunoichi 8's final had. Plus, I didn't single you out, the time I took from quoting you to actually posting my reply was big enough for Sheep to post, so I never ended up seeing his. I understand your point better now, but with your last few lines, it still seems like you're expecting M9 to come up with some stupid clutter because you keep referring to Kunoichi 8 which had problems from the outright. Maybe the stage would seem a bit more straightforward if they had fixed the wall issue, because when you have 50-40 sec left, if I'm not confident on it, I'd take my time as well which it seems Rie did which made the results so lopsided. All I'm saying at this point is don't base concerns off of something that never seemed to be set up right to begin with (had to be some reason it was taken down), let alone it being with Kunoichi as they have always treated Sasuke with a bit more respect. Plus, it still seems to be 23M, so who knows what will happen. I think you missed why originally started the discussion... M9 has done a great job with Sasuke's final stage. I was replying to arty's suggestion of a spider walk, ladder climb, AND a rope climb. I was saying that over-complicates things and would be dumb. That's the whole reason I started the conversation, and that's the post you quoted me on... so you should remember Yeah I guess you could say I'm concerned they may pull a Konuichi 8... but they havn't really let me down so far (Cept the 45 second time limit which got changed)
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venomcarnage89
Morikami Daisuke
A perfect stone creates ripples, the best intentions can have consequences.
Posts: 266
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Post by venomcarnage89 on Apr 23, 2010 6:58:51 GMT -5
Well, what if they just made it still a 30 second rope climb, just longer. THAT will make it hard. I still think that COULD be the final stage, I would say 35 secbut I would not be suprised one bit if the time limit would be 30 sec for the obstacle still.
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Post by SRW on Apr 23, 2010 8:50:17 GMT -5
My hunch tells me we will go back to 30 seconds 35 at most on whatever it is!
I wanted the last one to be 30 seconds but it really would have been impossible due to laws of physics on ladder climbing.
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Post by TCM on Apr 23, 2010 18:03:21 GMT -5
My hunch tells me we will go back to 30 seconds 35 at most on whatever it is! I wanted the last one to be 30 seconds but it really would have been impossible due to laws of physics on ladder climbing. Yet this one will be perfectly fine to go back to 30 seconds? It's the same height.
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venomcarnage89
Morikami Daisuke
A perfect stone creates ripples, the best intentions can have consequences.
Posts: 266
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Post by venomcarnage89 on Apr 23, 2010 19:48:58 GMT -5
My hunch tells me we will go back to 30 seconds 35 at most on whatever it is! I wanted the last one to be 30 seconds but it really would have been impossible due to laws of physics on ladder climbing. Yet this one will be perfectly fine to go back to 30 seconds? It's the same height. If its one big rope that is no problem, seeing as climbing a rope would be faster than climbing that ladder for almost everyone who would train for the final stage, then count that there is no transition if its one big rope so that adds speed. If it is not one big rope, then it might still be 35 sec or so to complete it simply because they do not want another winner for quite some time. IMO if the new final stage is 40 sec or more than that will only be because the new obstacle will be rediculously hard compared to the previous final at the same time limit.
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Post by Oti on Apr 23, 2010 19:52:39 GMT -5
Sasuke has always been about technique, among other things. Practice really does make perfect. If someone focuses a large amount of their time training specifically for the final stage (whatever it may be) and they beat it, they deserve it.
I honestly hope it's three ropes with transfers. A time limit of 30 seconds, too. If not, a regular rope climb with a time limit of 30 seconds will work for me.
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Post by SRW on Apr 23, 2010 20:40:24 GMT -5
My hunch tells me we will go back to 30 seconds 35 at most on whatever it is! I wanted the last one to be 30 seconds but it really would have been impossible due to laws of physics on ladder climbing. Yet this one will be perfectly fine to go back to 30 seconds? It's the same height. 5 - 17s was the same height too and that was 30 whats yer point? The only reason the last one was 40 was because of the ladder element and the human physics that you fundamentally cannot climb a ladder as fast as a spider climb.
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Post by Oti on Apr 23, 2010 21:06:33 GMT -5
Says who? Do you have scientific evidence of this?
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Post by jfeathe on Apr 24, 2010 12:27:04 GMT -5
Says who? Do you have scientific evidence of this? Well it makes sense. You also have to factor in the bungee aspect of the rope climb. The problem with high time limits is that there is more room for someone to "crush" the stage. Yuuji had the potential to clear the Final with 8.5 seconds if he did his 24 performance in 22. I really like a 30 second race up the tower. 40 was ok. If they go above 45 seconds, I'll be very worried.
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Post by Badalight on Apr 24, 2010 13:27:26 GMT -5
35 second rope climb would be kewl =)
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scnoi1217
Administrator
Retired Staff
Ummm...not sure what to say here...
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Post by scnoi1217 on Apr 24, 2010 13:42:57 GMT -5
Personally, I would hate the Final Stage if it was a single 23m Rope Climb. If that happened, the time limit would most likely be high (the time limit almost certainly wouldn't be 30 seconds because that would mean they would have to climb much faster and longer than Akiyama's pace). Plus, with the time limit so high, the final would be more of a marathon than a sprint. So you'll have some attempts that are great at the start, but then about halfway they are dead and then you have like 20 seconds of wasted time where you know he won't make it.
That's why I'm hoping it won't be a single rope climb.
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Post by Oti on Apr 24, 2010 16:35:27 GMT -5
That's what happens when their training isn't where it needs to be. We've seen many attempts at stage three that start off great but end with exhaustion (Takeda, for example). On the other hand, we've seen competitors that are prepared (Yuuji in 24 comes to mind). I don't think it's fair to use a competitor's conditioning (or lack thereof) as an argument against a rope climb final stage.
Besides, no matter what the final stage turns out to be, some people will blast through it and get close to victory while others are left at the halfway mark.
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Post by Badalight on Apr 24, 2010 16:52:56 GMT -5
Personally, I would hate the Final Stage if it was a single 23m Rope Climb. If that happened, the time limit would most likely be high (the time limit almost certainly wouldn't be 30 seconds because that would mean they would have to climb much faster and longer than Akiyama's pace). Plus, with the time limit so high, the final would be more of a marathon than a sprint. So you'll have some attempts that are great at the start, but then about halfway they are dead and then you have like 20 seconds of wasted time where you know he won't make it. That's why I'm hoping it won't be a single rope climb. Well... wasn't Kanno like that in the Shin-Sasuke final stage?
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Post by davidcampbell on Apr 24, 2010 17:36:54 GMT -5
Says who? Do you have scientific evidence of this? I think that we can all agree that AT LEAST...MOST people climb a rope ladder much faster than a spider walk. This is evident by simply watching attempts at both on Sasuke. I have tried both and can climb much fasterin a spider climb than a wriggley rope ladder. That's not to say that there's not some rope climbing maniac with 6 foot long arms somewhere that will fly up a rope climb, but for the VAST majority of people if not all people this true.
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Post by TCM on Apr 24, 2010 17:39:46 GMT -5
Yet this one will be perfectly fine to go back to 30 seconds? It's the same height. 5 - 17s was the same height too and that was 30 whats yer point? The only reason the last one was 40 was because of the ladder element and the human physics that you fundamentally cannot climb a ladder as fast as a spider climb. 5-17 was 22.5 meters which is about 73 feet, 23 meters is around 75. Aprrox 2 feet of difference, therefore different height.
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Post by SRW on Apr 24, 2010 17:43:52 GMT -5
Says who? Do you have scientific evidence of this? I think that we can all agree that AT LEAST...MOST people climb a rope ladder much faster than a spider walk. This is evident by simply watching attempts at both on Sasuke. I have tried both and can climb much fasterin a spider climb than a wriggley rope ladder. That's not to say that there's not some rope climbing maniac with 6 foot long arms somewhere that will fly up a rope climb, but for the VAST majority of people if not all people this true. You just said you can do a spider climb faster than a rope ladder but further up you said most would do the ladder faster than spider climb lol so which is it lol .
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