The perfect Stage 1?

[Homeslice]

After feeling inspired by the thread for the perfect Stage 2, I figured I'd ask the same question about Stage 1. How would you change it or modify it if you could? What obstacles would you take out or put in?

If I were in charge of this, I'd bring back old obstacles, maybe adding a twist to one or two. My perfect Stage 1 would be:

- Sextuple Step
- Spinning Bridge
- Log Grip
- Bridge Jump
- Circle Slider
- Jumping Spider (maybe with moving walls like the Spider Walk from SASUKE 1-6 just to make it a bigger challenge, meaning you gotta be faster now)
- Halfpipe Attack
- Warped Wall
- Final Climb (Tarzan Rope/Rope Ladder combo)

90 seconds might sound decent enough, though if that's too tight for some, maybe 100 or so would do.

How about you guys?

[dakohosu]

I'd say the biggest issues with Stage 1 now are:

- The first half favors a "slow and steady wins the race" approach, in that the obstacles can be viably overcome by anyone by going as slowly as possible (think KAREN as an example). This results in a hell of a lot of incredibly boring runs, where the competitor can get relatively far into the course but evidently won't have enough time to clear, so its a case of the result being a foregone conclusion but still having to wait for them to time out or fail the Dragon Glider. Not to mention that this applies to a lot of the celebrity competitors shown in full, which unnecessarily draws out Stage 1's runtime.

- Barring freak accidents (or *cough* malfunctions), the Dragon Glider is the only legitimately hard obstacle in the entire stage, and even then it's been worked out by majority of veteran competitors, and is stale to the point that its failure rates from said competitors are next to zero now. There's no longer a "they can fail anywhere" feeling, which makes watching even top competitors' runs feel kind of bland and predictable. Especially with the same results year after year as a result of the stale and thoroughly out-trained course as it stands.

- Time limit is too high. It's ridiculous that the course's time limit is 25 seconds higher than it was in 36, for what is effectively one new obstacle. This, once again, contributes to even well established competitors' runs feeling boring, because they almost always have hoards of time left for the wall. I'm not adverse to the wall being the final obstacle as it can be a "will they, won't they" final moment, but it would work a lot better if competitors were forced to rush, knowing they could make a mistake, rather than having 30+ seconds left. Lower time limits can also incentivise rushing on earlier obstacles leading to more frequent mistakes. Just look at 1-4's Stage 2; wasn't hard in isolation, but with the low time limit, competitors were slipping and losing balance left, right, centre.

- Editing: any suspense from potentially exciting Stage 1 runs are usually ruined by digests, as well as the aforementioned issues leading to overly drawn out celebrity runs where they all seem to reach the Dragon Glider, even though it's blatantly obvious they have no hope in clearing anyway, but are obviously all shown in full for the ratings. Multiple drops in pace and immersion, especially around the 50s-60s where they seem to group several celebrities in succession. I understand the need for celebrities on the show, but I think the way they're edited resulting in a 3.5+ hour Stage 1 where most of the clears are STILL fast forwarded is a bit on the side of excess imo. That said, I'm not Japanese, so I don't resonate with these idol groups in the same way that domestic fans do, so it's likely a case of me not really getting it. But I can only go by my own feelings.

- Inui's blatant fear of low clear rates. For Inui, a hard Stage 1 = low clear rates = celebrities failing early = lower ratings AND less digested content to show in full on the YouTube channel, which, given that there's now a good 9 months between a tournament airing and the hype for the next tournament, he needs to fill that void somehow. I'm not exactly sure how one would go about this, because let's be real, if Stage 1 gets a significant difficulty spike, Iwamoto, Sugeta etc. are going to massively struggle. But it is frustrating.

I'd need to think about my ideal Stage 1, as there are so many good (older) obstacles to choose from and put together in a cohesive manner, but generally:

- More failable and faster paced first half of the stage, that can cause shock early fails from unexpected veterans, and can't just be overcome by going really slowly and carefully. I would say something like the Step Slider would work as 1.1, but from a ratings perspective it won't look good if all Inui's mascot celebrities fail the first obstacle. But that kind of ethos for sure. Silk Slider definitely has to go, as it almost single handedly contributed to this issue, with the Wing Slider being a reliable filter of fodder a few years back. It would also serve to make Stage 1 more balanced, rather than the Dragon Glider being the only minorly nail-biting part of the stage.

- Tighter time limit: for the current course I'd say 90 seconds, that kind of stringency. Ideally wouldn't want the fastest clear to be more than 20 seconds, and a LOT of close calls and "will they, won't they" moments. I'd say we've not really had that sort of feeling from Stage 1 since, Sasuke 26, with 35 being a semi-exception to that.

- Buff the wall in some way, shape, or form. Adding an obstacle afterwards is apparently not viable due to the expense of extending the length of the water pits (according to Inui), and as mentioned I think the wall as the final obstacle can work with a tight time limit and a legitimate chance of failing it at the last minute, but in its current state competitors are too used to it. Bring back 31's height, reduce the run up, anything really, to make it more difficult.

[ItalianNinja08]

Replace the Quad Steps and the Silk Slider with the Dome Steps and the Wing Slider respectively and add the Circle Slider with also a drop between two Warped Walls of 27 or 31's height. Time limit is 100 seconds. 

[dakohosu]

Feb 29, 2024 18:30:11 GMT -5 ItalianNinja08 said:

Replace the Quad Steps and the Silk Slider with the Dome Steps and the Wing Slider respectively and add the Circle Slider with also a drop between two Warped Walls of 27 or 31's height. Time limit is 100 seconds. 

Great ideas, but the issue is the viability of those additions from Inui's perspective.

Dome Steps was a fantastic early killer but Inui will NEVER add a 1.1 that will take out a good chunk of the field as he won't want his mascot celebrities all failing early as bad for ratings. I imagine the reason the Silk Slider was kept around was that Inui initially misjudged how easy it would be and had, but then saw that a load of comedians reaching the Dragon Glider drove increased hype and viewership so never did anything about it, even when COVID no longer became a precaution from 40 onwards. Even in 39 where COVID was still a thing, the obstacle could've been kept but significantly buffed with a smaller landing pad, drops, etc. but nope.... and I would imagine the aforementioned was the reason why. It's frustrating as it's contributed to Stage 1s now lasting 3.5 hours, but there you go unfortunately.

There's also the issue of the course being extended allegedly being too expensive, specifically digging more water pits, which is why the last two obstacles from 34 were scrapped to make room for the Dragon Glider, which took up loads of space, for 35. I'm not really sure how much I buy this given that most contractors are paid on a daily rate and digging an extra water pit can easily be done within the same day/won't take an extra several days to do, but that's the excuse I've repeatedly heard so.....

[shunsukenumber98]

I think the way to make the "perfect" stage 1 without changing anything is to do like what they did in sasuke 19. The course is the same, but slight modifications make the course harder, such as decrease time limit and say, the dragon glider track being made more steep. I guess that could work.

[dakohosu]

Mar 1, 2024 10:51:41 GMT -5 shunsukenumber98 said:

I think the way to make the "perfect" stage 1 without changing anything is to do like what they did in sasuke 19. The course is the same, but slight modifications make the course harder, such as decrease time limit and say, the dragon glider track being made more steep. I guess that could work.

Yeah, this. 

There are SO many simple and hence cost-effective things you can do to make the current course harder. 

Silk Slider: add drops, reduce platform size, have two curtains that shift based on weight like the Chain See-Saw.
Fish Bone: decrease size of footholds or change them to the same footholds as that of the Buyoishi, have the Fish Bone change direction at regular intervals to throw competitors off.
Twin Dia: increase the distance between the landing platform and second diamond, same with the starting platform and first diamond, meaning better timing as you have to jump farther and hence have to land on the diamond when it's flat.
Dragon Glider: increase trampoline jump distance
Warped Wall: make slightly higher

All of the above would cost very little, as well as the time limit decrease costing a grand total of zero yen, but could transform the perceived difficulty of the stage. I left out Quad Steps because as mentioned Inui won't want a lot of his celebrities all failing early, similar story with Rolling Hill and not much that can be done there either.

Also, as well as 19, Sasuke 5 proves that you can massively improve a stage with very few changes. It had two new obstacles and reduced the clear rate from 37 to 3, lol.

[darthvaderlim]

Bring Sasuke 19 Jumping Spider and Flying Chute, while reducing the time limit to 95 seconds. Jokes aside, I doubt the Flying Chute would be used today due to Health and Safety

[loboticialtree]

Well I'd start off slowly, because why not. I figured it'll go something like this:
Step 1: Reduce the Time Limit to around 100 seconds. Either that or to make it Kajihara proof 85-90 seconds. Harsh? Definitely, but I'll probably go for 100 seconds cause I don't wanna go too hard on them.
Step 2: Like what shunsukenumber98 and dakohosu said, make Stage 1 harder through modifications. I had actually thought of making the bottom of each end of the Rolling Hill motorized just so we don't spend close to a minute on watching people do the Rolling Hill. Or Twin Dia's transitions being larger.
Step 3: To be honest, I'm not the most creative person, but maybe, just maybe replace the Silk Slider and move every obstacle before the Warped Wall, one obstacle back. Right after the Tackle, competitors have to do something similar to the Half Pipe Attack/Nejireta Kabe, which would cause a lot of late stage fails. Provided the competitors legs are tired, then they would fall and crumble quickly. Stupid idea? Yes. But it's a pipe dream I would like to see, cause it would be interesting to see what would happen if this hypothetically occurs.

But my Dream Scenario is This:
Have the Steps Fall similar to the Prism See-Saw after they spend a few seconds in there, to punish competitors who take longer than they should
Motorize the bottom of the Rolling Hill
Fish Bone 
Twin Dia but the gaps are larger
Dragon Glider but the jump to the glider is larger
Tackle but +10kg heavier
Half Pipe Attack (?)
Warped Wall Taller by 10cm
TIME LIMIT: 100 Seconds. I hope it's possible