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Post by Not-so innocent Bystander... on Jun 13, 2015 11:36:18 GMT -5
Okay, so no one here is arguing that ANW is as good as Sasuke, and I totally agree. What I don't understand is the extreme degree of hate for the show. I know the obstacles aren't original, but just because a few are slightly easier/less strongly designed, doesn't mean they aren't still really difficult. The competitiors still train their a** off for the course, the setting of Las Vegas for the final is still awesome, and the final still has the same formula as Sasuke. Although the altered results are awful, one day when all forms of Sasuke are dead and gone, you'll all look back at ANW, Ninja warrior UK and the rest and think how awesome it was that Sasuke spread that far and had that global influence. If you want the version of Sasuke with the most integrity and quality I highly recommend the first Ninja Warrior Uk tournament, especially the final, but 30 tournaments of Sasuke have spoilt us and I believe ANW (by no means a perfect show) gets way more crap then it deserves!
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Post by thebobmaster on Jun 13, 2015 12:07:06 GMT -5
I don't hate it. However, there are aspects of it that I dislike, just as there are aspects of Sasuke I dislike. My main issue with ANW is that, while you brush off the obstacles being less strongly designed, some of them are flat-out dangerous. Just ask Nika Muckleroy or Brian Kretsch about the Tilting Table.
Also, it's not just about difficulty. It needs to be fun to watch as well. And it takes a bit of the fun out when they alter run orders to suit the story they want to tell.
As for ANW vs. Japan (both times), don't get me started on what a load of bull that was.
If you ever read my comments on the ANW episodes, you'll see that I do mention things that I like, as well as things I don't like.
On a final note, I don't think anyone HATES ANW. They may be disappointed, and wish it was done better, but I've not seen anyone root for it to fail, as they would if they truly hated the show.
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Post by TCM on Jun 13, 2015 13:25:02 GMT -5
At this point, my problem isn't with the existence of the show (I still watch it after all), but NBC's handling of it, which stems back from when it started transitioning to NBC from G4 and trying to persona non grata the show that caused their existence to begin with. Sure, the show itself has aspects I'm not fond of, but those are subjective (outside of egregious things like show-breaking obstacles and the international specials). I like reality competitions, but I've watched Sasuke for so long which never felt like a reality competition and more like a sports entertainment type show, that I'm not wild about ANW's style of trying to make it seem more reality TV based.
But I do think 7 seasons without a winner trying to make the courses harder makes no sense. Wait for a winner, someone you can promote without making it seem like you're prioritizing some over others and oversaturate them when they don't have sustainable success on the show. Kacy kicked a** last season, but Megan did better overall in Vegas. Brian may have cleared Stage 3 in an exhibition, but his team didn't even win (despite all attempts by NBC). That's not taking away from any individual achievement, but you can't get the show consistent ratings like that when they ultimately fail season after season. We know it's the "World's Toughest Obstacle Course." Now, let's get the show press with someone beating it, which won't happen with constant production butting in.
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Amber
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Post by Amber on Jun 13, 2015 13:37:16 GMT -5
I don't hate it.[2] One thing is that the show was 10x better in seasons 2 and 3
But it annoys me how they suck the fun of the obstacle course and make it super serious, and films can work the same way; it's nice to have comedic moments in a serious movie at times. However, ANW is super serious when SASUKE has comedians running. Even when we have a stage 3 fail in Sasuke, the announcer is serious, yes, but in ANW they act like news reporters on the scene of a tragic event.
Also, ANW wants to shove everyone's life stories down our throats when the person is going to fail anyways. I remember another SMF member said something (I think it was Rider) along the lines of when watching ANW, it's like a documentary rather than an obstacle course show that it's supposed to be. It seems like they focus on the competitor more than the course (which is what the show revolves around)
Also, they overhype Kacy in EVERYTHING.
But all in all, I really don't HATE the show, I'm just disappointed that they ruined it by turning it into some sob story pop culture show with hashtags and stuff... and it overall makes me miss the old layout of the show.
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gt4dom
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Post by gt4dom on Jun 13, 2015 13:48:42 GMT -5
I don't like the fact that so many people on it just want to get on TV rather than because they love the show or enjoy the show. A lot of people here will remember the "olden" days where people would travel across America to compete for 1 spot just to have the chance to be able to run a full Ninja Warrior course in Japan. Now overhyped idiots get to hog all the limelight whilst all the passionate and dedicated fans of the show get fast forwarded or cut completely. I don't hate ANW as a show, I actually think the concept and obstacles (apart from some questionably dodgy ones) are fresh and exciting, and I'm pleased that even if SASUKE does die in the next couple of years its spirit will live on in the form of it's spinoffs. I just hate the presentation and editing of the show which is all for ratings and really ruins the spirit of SASUKE which is all about comradeship and having fun rather than being super serious.
#MightyKacy #FailedJumpingSpider #FireAdmiralAkbar #AndThatIsemanGuyToo #BringBackLevi #NoHashtagsInSASUKE
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 13:57:39 GMT -5
Let me put it this way. I don't like ANW because it has too many flaws. They cut corners with their budget (in doing so making their obstacles too dangerous or faulty). Their editing is horrendous (it's better now then before, but still). The few obstacles they do get right are normally boring to watch anyway. They're biased as to which competitors they show simply by what story they have, not to mention trying to pit those said competitors against each other and last, but not least the BS they try to convince you they didn't pull off camera (ex. Brent in ANW 4 and USA vs. the World). There, those are my problems with it.
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Post by TCM on Jun 13, 2015 14:05:33 GMT -5
I also cringe at the possibility of two people clearing Stage 3 in one season and Stage 4 becoming a race which goes against everything either show tries to claim.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 14:17:28 GMT -5
I also cringe at the possibility of two people clearing Stage 3 in one season and Stage 4 becoming a race which goes against everything either show tries to claim. Or worse. Those said two have no sportsmanship qualities whatsoever.
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Post by vaughngk on Jun 13, 2015 15:06:59 GMT -5
I also cringe at the possibility of two people clearing Stage 3 in one season and Stage 4 becoming a race which goes against everything either show tries to claim. Which is why they make the course harder to try to prevent that. I don't know why people are opposed to multiple people completing all four stages. A big part of the show's message is that it is not a competion between people. But that if we train hard enough we all have the possibility to succeed but even the chance that more than one person climbs the tower in the same season is unwanted Why?
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Amber
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Post by Amber on Jun 13, 2015 15:26:13 GMT -5
A big part of the show's message is that it is not a competion between people. AHEM - USA vs Japan and USA vs 5 guys from Europe and Japan The World
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Post by Oti on Jun 13, 2015 15:30:38 GMT -5
Nobody here is against multiple people winning. What we don't like is that if multiple people win, it BECOMES man vs. man instead of man vs. course. Only the fastest person to climb the rope will be the champion. The other guy(s) lose. In Sasuke, there would be multiple champions. In Kunoichi, there WERE multiple champions at one point.
My main gripe with ANW is that everything feels fake. It's over-produced and artificial, whereas the tension, passion and comradery of Sasuke feels authentic. ANW feels like a show, whereas Sasuke feels like they put 100 competitors on a course and just recorded what happened. But I also think these things aren't completely ANW's fault. It's a side effect of being produced in America. Our TV shows usually suck.
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Post by TCM on Jun 13, 2015 17:10:12 GMT -5
I also cringe at the possibility of two people clearing Stage 3 in one season and Stage 4 becoming a race which goes against everything either show tries to claim. Which is why they make the course harder to try to prevent that. I don't know why people are opposed to multiple people completing all four stages. A big part of the show's message is that it is not a competion between people. But that if we train hard enough we all have the possibility to succeed but even the chance that more than one person climbs the tower in the same season is unwanted Why? You might have misunderstood my post. I'm fine with the possibility of multiple champions. My point is that message of 'all against the course' is ruined if multiple people clear Stage 3 in ANW during the same season because they're going to force those attempting Stage 4 to instead race against one another because they're only paying out to one person (which makes the decision to bump the prize money before a winner even dumber). This has been in place since ANW1 and I (and others) have had an issue with it since. Had that ever happened when ANW was tied to Sasuke, they'd be considered co-champions in Sasuke canon but in ANW canon it would whoever be the fastest.
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Post by thatoneuser on Jun 13, 2015 18:14:09 GMT -5
I don't see why we should worry about that. NBC dangles a $1,000,000 prize over the competitor's heads to: 1. Allure competitors ("I want to win American Ninja Warrior... because I do, I guess") 2. Manufacture drama ("If I win the million dollars, I'd create a safehouse so my family can survive the ensuing collapse of the universe") 3. Give viewers a reason to watch (if there wasn't a prize at the end for the winner, casual viewers would be like "why")
The $1,000,000 is completely irrelevant because nobody is beating the course. The 2nd and 3rd Stages in America are specifically designed to ensure that no one ever even makes it to the Final Stage, and frankly I wouldn't doubt if they slash the time limit on the Final Stage down to 35 or even 30 seconds in the off chance someone gets there.
If you ask me, the real reason people on here complain about this show is because American Ninja Warrior is a TV show first whereas SASUKE is a competition first. That's how American television works and that's how it'll always work. Unless SASUKE ever gets IOC recognition, it's going to be spun into a TV show.
And for the record, if anyone complains about the top ANW guys competing on SASUKE, the top SASUKE guys have never competed in ANW (unless you count those God-awful specials at the end of the season, and that's not what I'm referring to).
EDIT: I also think that some people, not pointing fingers, feel a sense of "entitlement" that they "deserve" to compete because they're a superfan or did marginally OK in a past season. For the record, I heard that 70% of the competitors this season were rookies. Yeah, they get people that are good for TV and bad for the course, but again, this is a TV show first and a competition second. It would take waaaaaaay more effort than it's worth to get the "best" athletes on the course, and that would end up being kind of boring for TV.
Oh, and the editing sucks, but that's a footnote at best.
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Post by TCM on Jun 13, 2015 19:54:08 GMT -5
But with any TV show that's a competition, if that competitive aspect isn't there, that's even more boring than seeing a bunch of top guys and gals. There's no tension in seeing someone with a heart-tugging story fail anticlimactically on the second obstacle in qualifying. Especially when they edit in such a way that's essentially "Well, that was a shame, now here's a commercial break to make you forget all about it!" It makes the show and network look dumb when you treat everyone as cogs in a machine, only having to replace those cogs because they don't last as long. It is a TV show, but in my opinion, a poorly done one.
Look at a show like Millionaire, different genres in most regards, but similar in that its concept was made harder, and contestants weren't up to snuff meaning significantly less amounts of major success (you can actually count on one hand the number of million dollar questions there have been in the last five years, no winners since 2009 [and no one has won by answering all the questions in a decade]) and the show itself is a former shell of the powerhouse it was. They're getting their 3rd host in as many seasons, and it's been a perennial bubble show. My point in that being, no one's going to continue to watch mediocrity, and in most places, this is stuck in the middle of the day, a show you watch when nothing else is on or in a waiting room. No one's especially going to deal with mediocre contestants when it's a primetime show.
If they can keep those seven million people watching, great, I hope they do. But I won't be surprised if they don't stick around because NBC doesn't know how to keep a competition style show going that isn't AGT or The Voice.
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Jun 13, 2015 20:35:28 GMT -5
Let me admit something. I'm sure it's been said SO MUCH in this thread alone. ANW will never be SASUKE. Yes SASUKE inspired the US to make something similar but never the same. ANW has it's own quirks and loose screws to fix. It's a show, they're bound to be things you'd want to change in a show. But anyways I never hated ANW. Yes I do get annoyed when they mess with results to have their way, USA VS THE WORLD I'M LOOKING AT YOU! *under gritted teeth* Morimoto and Ryo won. But it's made for TV so I just sit back and watch the show being given. If NBC is able to keep me watching they're doing SOMETHING right.
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Post by wrestlingfan55 on Jun 13, 2015 21:16:06 GMT -5
To be honest also, the Japanese competitors, to me at least, are so much easier to like than the ANW competitors (I haven't seen the UK version yet but I probably should) and you can actually feel the camaradarie (sp?) between competitors. I've admittedly only watched a few runs from each ANW seasonn, but I feel an air of cockiness from a lot of the competitors that just makes me cringe. I actually enjoyed Levi's run in Sasuke 21 where he did the flips, it seemed to be for entertainment purposes and he didn't give me the feeling that he's an arrogant a**. I can appreciate a bit of bravado, but some of the ANW competitors just rub me the wrong way and the show just gives out a bad vibe to me. Just my thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 23:08:11 GMT -5
To be honest also, the Japanese competitors, to me at least, are so much easier to like than the ANW competitors (I haven't seen the UK version yet but I probably should) and you can actually feel the camaradarie (sp?) between competitors. I've admittedly only watched a few runs from each ANW seasonn, but I feel an air of cockiness from a lot of the competitors that just makes me cringe. I actually enjoyed Levi's run in Sasuke 21 where he did the flips, it seemed to be for entertainment purposes and he didn't give me the feeling that he's an arrogant a**. I can appreciate a bit of bravado, but some of the ANW competitors just rub me the wrong way and the show just gives out a bad vibe to me. Just my thoughts. The problem was the flip on the wall. People got PO'ed because he not only did it during an obstacle, but it wasn't even a forward movement. At least the guy in ANW 4 (Josh Hill) who front flipped to the Jump Hang (even though it was still a dumb move and dick thing to do) was moving forward when he did it. I try not to let showboating bug me, but when they do it during obstacles (Issac Caldiero and Noah Kaufmann I'm looking at you) that's when it's a dick move. And no I don't count Brian Arnold's hand hovering over the button as showboating (he wanted to run earlier and they go by time remaining when you complete the stage).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 3:24:16 GMT -5
The reasons I don't like ANW as much as SASUKE are as follows:
1: Instead of one big show, it's spread out in weeks. 2: It's taken TOO SERIOUSLY. There are little to no joke competitors like SASUKE and Ninja Warrior UK. 3: USA vs (insert country(s) here) competitions are pointless and Japan get harshly treated. 4: The use of too many long "sob stories". 5: You don't get to go to Japan and compete on SASUKE unlike the first 3 ANW seasons. 6: It's man vs man, not man vs course like in SASUKE. If two people won...they should give both of them $1 Million, not share $500k each nor race each other. 7: It's getting overrated while SASUKE is getting underrated. 8: Too many #hashtags. Since when was Twitter associated with ANW???
Rant over.
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Post by arsenette on Jun 14, 2015 10:00:05 GMT -5
I hate ANW because NBC made this hate train happen. When they took over the show they also commandeered it's entire fanbase on all social media hyping it bigger than it actually was dropped Sasuke from domestic distribution, reformatted it's show seemingly every season, altered and even fabricated results for "dramatic purposes" and pit fan against fan all because it wanted to make money on it's own. I feel bad for the competitors and fans on both sides of the Pacific because all they wanted to do was love both shows in their own right. So everything is back to how NBC destroyed a good thing by being NBC (just like they did with the Olympic games).
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Post by Mjyr1 on Jun 14, 2015 14:52:35 GMT -5
The hashtags have become a thing for all of reality television now, unfortunately. Look at something like America's Got Talent. Wait, don't, they're on NBC. Look at Survivor or Amazing Race.
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