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Post by peterpack on Sept 11, 2014 5:48:30 GMT -5
I was really pissed off that all of the wildcards in the finals went to women who had NO chance of getting through stage 1 !
Drew Dreshel definitely deserved a wildcard, maybe Flip as well
I know they want the show to be more universally appealing, but still pees me off
Why not have a separate show for women ?
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Post by blah123 on Sept 11, 2014 11:24:33 GMT -5
If you're going to put punctuation at the end of sentences, please don't use a space. I.e. don't do this . Or this !
Aaaaaannyyyways.. Yeah no one really "deserves" a wild card spot. Like what was said in a different thread -- don't leave it up to the judges.
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Post by kangaroo on Sept 11, 2014 15:12:33 GMT -5
That is about ratings and not all the wildcards where women
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Post by peterpack on Sept 11, 2014 15:16:03 GMT -5
I think seeing Drew in the finals course would have helped ratings for sure, Flip too
Wildcards in sports like Tennis and golf and given to two categories of player usually
a) up and comers who show promise for the future b) champions who have proven themselves in the past but are currently going through a rough spot.
Ok so some of the women could have been given a wildcard under category a) but Drew and Flip definitely deserved one under category b). The only reason i didn't include Brent Steff is that he got one last year.
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Post by Oti on Sept 11, 2014 15:35:04 GMT -5
Most viewers probably don't know who Drew or Flip are. NBC aims for the casual viewer, not the die-hard fan. That's why each year more and more slots are given to average Joe-type people instead of people who are actually athletes. As far as wild cards go, it's all about demographics and entertainment. It's nice to have a few women compete in Vegas in order to break up the sausage fest, or to have some black/hispanic/whatever guys compete in a predominantly pastey-white competition. You need to get it out of your head that this is a serious athletic competition. It's not. It's a TV show. If NBC recruited competitors based on ATHLETICISM instead of ENTERTAINMENT VALUE, we probably would've had a winner already.
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Post by RatedRKO1118 on Sept 14, 2014 22:38:04 GMT -5
I really disliked this last year. They know the majority of them had no chance yet do it anyway because lolwomen lolratings etc.
I like wildcards well enough in general, though.
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Post by phrozunsun on Sept 15, 2014 8:39:23 GMT -5
Most viewers probably don't know who Drew or Flip are. NBC aims for the casual viewer, not the die-hard fan. That's why each year more and more slots are given to average Joe-type people instead of people who are actually athletes. As far as wild cards go, it's all about demographics and entertainment. It's nice to have a few women compete in Vegas in order to break up the sausage fest, or to have some black/hispanic/whatever guys compete in a predominantly pastey-white competition. You need to get it out of your head that this is a serious athletic competition. It's not. It's a TV show. If NBC recruited competitors based on ATHLETICISM instead of ENTERTAINMENT VALUE, we probably would've had a winner already. I agree in principle, but you're missing the big picture. Vince McMahon made a living out of nurturing talent, providing exposure, and locking in his audience by connecting them to his superstars. You can't do that if you wildcard nobodies every year and fans (die hard and casual, alike) don't have the chance to cheer on our favourites. NBC seems to think you can force-feed Kacy Catanzaro promos until we start to like her. Or that they do it by running 4 minute sob story promo packs for people whose runs last 30 seconds. How are those (or wildcarding ransoms) even remotely good strategies? How do those provide "Entertainment Value"?
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Post by Oti on Sept 15, 2014 9:47:49 GMT -5
Explain this to NBC, not me.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Sept 15, 2014 13:41:12 GMT -5
Wow... at least the incredibly sexists a**es have outed themselves as such on the boards. LOL Yikes..
As for ratings and exposure, it's already been proven that the most high profile people WERE the women and older guys who passed qualifiers because they were expected to fail and fail badly. In fact the current furor is of those fans of those people feeling slighted that they had no hope in Vegas and they want Vegas changed so that they had more of a chance. Like it or hate it, it's when the casual fan "thinks" that person can pass a stage that they feel invested in watching or supporting the show. This was the most controversial ANW Vegas course ever (granted we've only had it for a couple of years but I'm digressing). Watching a steady stream of hardcore athletes over and over is boring as hell to those who don't watch the Olympics. Because of the sheer volume of people on ANW (12 weeks on NBC) that they have no attachment to, those who seem the closest to "them" are the ones that are cheered the loudest. It's not about being the strongest or who will win the course and half a million dollars, it's about the every day person who was duped into thinking they had a chance (by the format of qualifiers) going into Vegas. Lord knows anyone who watched Sasuke knows this, but this is the reason why they are given the Wildcards in the first place. These are the ones that are comprising ratings and NBC knows this.
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Post by phrozunsun on Sept 15, 2014 14:56:18 GMT -5
Watching a steady stream of hardcore athletes over and over is boring as hell.... So what you're saying is that it's more exciting to watch competitors that you know will fail, instead of watching competitors who might actually succeed? That sounds a little backwards to me. And, for the record, my posts are both talking about most wildcards spots, regardless of sex (in reference to what The Amazing Oti said about wildcard choices in general). Drew should have gotten a wildcard over A LOT of the guys who did. For the record I'm glad that Jessie Graf got one last year, she's really talented. Michelle Warnky, Amy Pajcic and Meagan Martin were decent too. Kacy, however had no chance at the jumping spider and got waaaaay to much promo time for her skill level.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Sept 15, 2014 15:06:13 GMT -5
I've been watching ratings for a loooooooooooong time. Several decades. The goal of every television show and this is something that a lot of hardcore ANW people have issues with, it's a television show.. is getting the "casual" viewer. The format of ANW doesn't help the show keep and sustain an audience. The "massive rise of new viewers" is the key line that a lot of people are not grasping. You can't have identical numbers in ratings, demos and viewers if you kept BOTH the new viewers and the core base. The numbers have been virtually identical. They are losing the core base. We can argue why, but the "new" people screaming the names of the wildcards (because THEY are the most popular) are the ones that NBC is trying to keep. While it may be unfair WHY that's happening it's an entirely different thing to blame a gender for destroying the show. NBC is doing that just fine on their own. As for the argument I have about boring as hell, is that you have to compare it to Sasuke's format to understand the difference. HOW many competitors are on ANW and shown week after week? Are we up to what.. 600? That's just zerging the television. So after a while everyone looks the same. There is no difference between anyone. Someone like a "mom" or a "kid" or a "Grandpa" or someone else who by all rights shouldn't be passing these stages but are is a hell of a lot more compelling than someone extremely skilled and EXPECTED to pass. For the casuals that are keeping this show alive, you root for the underdog because honestly they are far and few in between. The rest blur and most don't even know their names. They are just too many. And THAT is the problem with ANW's format, not these damn girls and old people.
Edit: Look at the title of this thread. By simply agreeing with the premise you are automatically espousing it. There's already a thread on wildcards. This one in particular is abhorrent.
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Post by phrozunsun on Sept 15, 2014 15:55:01 GMT -5
Edit: Look at the title of this thread. By simply agreeing with the premise you are automatically espousing it. There's already a thread on wildcards. This one in particular is abhorrent. Agreed. My first response was when browsing on mobile and I got the two threads confused. I was talking about wildcards in general, not specifically women.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Sept 15, 2014 15:57:16 GMT -5
Understood
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Post by higeboshi on Sept 15, 2014 15:58:28 GMT -5
Kacy, however had no chance at the jumping spider and got waaaaay to much promo time for her skill level. Apples and butternut squash, here. Kacy actually earned her way into the finals, and made it without a wildcard, so she's not really applicable to this discussion.
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Post by phrozunsun on Sept 15, 2014 17:19:54 GMT -5
Kacy, however had no chance at the jumping spider and got waaaaay to much promo time for her skill level. Apples and butternut squash, here. Kacy actually earned her way into the finals, and made it without a wildcard, so she's not really applicable to this discussion. True, but she has used wildcards before.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Sept 15, 2014 17:27:15 GMT -5
Apples and butternut squash, here. Kacy actually earned her way into the finals, and made it without a wildcard, so she's not really applicable to this discussion. True, but she has used wildcards before. She was given a wildcard last year and they didn't give her the exposure she had this year, the reason she has gotten so much exposure and credit is because she earned her spot this year, the first time in ANW history. I do think they overdid things this year but she did earn it. Not sure why I'm trying to bother with this thread, not sure if this is a troll thread or just a stupid one but this is far too sexist of a thread...
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Post by peterpack on Sept 16, 2014 10:14:25 GMT -5
arsenette, i definitely don't agree that people want to watch regular people who they identify with who are less proficient that the elite athletes. Do people want to see an overweight dad sprint against Usain Bolt in the 100 m ? Do they want to see a 40 year old handyman swim against Michael Phelps ? NO ! they want to see the bloody best perform against the bloody best and push each other to new heights. But hey everyone has different opinions
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acw
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Post by acw on Sept 16, 2014 10:18:03 GMT -5
Watching a steady stream of hardcore athletes over and over is boring as hell.... So what you're saying is that it's more exciting to watch competitors that you know will fail, instead of watching competitors who might actually succeed? That sounds a little backwards to me. And, for the record, my posts are both talking about most wildcards spots, regardless of sex (in reference to what The Amazing Oti said about wildcard choices in general). Drew should have gotten a wildcard over A LOT of the guys who did. For the record I'm glad that Jessie Graf got one last year, she's really talented. Michelle Warnky, Amy Pajcic and Meagan Martin were decent too. Kacy, however had no chance at the jumping spider and got waaaaay to much promo time for her skill level. Disagree on Kacy. And Meagan was more than decent
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Post by dudesky1000 on Sept 16, 2014 12:03:31 GMT -5
arsenette, i definitely don't agree that people want to watch regular people who they identify with who are less proficient that the elite athletes.Do people want to see an overweight dad sprint against Usain Bolt in the 100 m ? Do they want to see a 40 year old handyman swim against Michael Phelps ? NO ! they want to see the bloody best perform against the bloody best and push each other to new heights. But hey everyone has different opinions You could not be more wrong. And I want to make my phrasing clear; this is not a matter of opinion. You are wrong. Allow me to ask you something. Look at the current class of competitors in ANW. How many are competing on the show simply because they first heard of Ninja Warrior, Sasuke, or even started with ANW? How many on the show were elite athletes before knowing about the show? Do you see how seriously those same people take the competition today? How they train year-round to try to complete this obstacle course? Where do you think they got the belief? Did they simply look at the obstacles and say to themselves--that's so easy, I'm going to just drop everything I'm doing to win 500K? No, because that's impractical. Something else caught their eye. Something else convinced them that they too could be a competitor, a sportsman, a role model, a hero, an elite athlete, an American Ninja Warrior. And it wasn't the elite athletes that were already on Sasuke or ANW. It was the fishermen. It was the shoe salesmen. The has-been sprinters, the civil servants, the fire fighters, the gas station managers, the average citizens who were essentially 'nobodies' in real life, but had become international ALL-STARS. Can you imagine the thrill of being considered an 'all-star' at anything, for a middle-aged guy living in middle America who has already settled down and accepted a perfectly average little life in a big, big world? In the grand scheme of things, it is the success stories of these regular people who rise to the occasion, the attention and adoration that they get, the amazing things they are actually capable of and it gives us, the average viewer, the feeling that we too can be competitive, be a somebody, be an all star, be an American Ninja Warrior just like they managed to be. That's the pull of the show that separates it from Wipe Out and other gimmicky gameshows. When we see an elite athlete, who has always been elite, who has always been at the top of their sport--that does not inspire us. That doesn't make us feel like we are capable of being all stars. It makes us feel awestruck. We feel smaller. We feel entertained, but largely removed personally. Sometimes we feel jealous. So we watch more. But I do not believe that is the allure of these obstacle course shows that has thrust it into the phenomenon that it is.
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nehcney
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Post by nehcney on Sept 16, 2014 12:16:35 GMT -5
^ Bravo!! Very well said, that was an Oscar-winning speech
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