Wall Lifting vs Passing Wall (Training version)

[Oti]

That was actually directed at Arsenette. I feel the point is moot because I was not lifting under ideal conditions either. I was not rested. I was not fresh. But this is ignored because Sasuke is SO grueling, right? It's interesting that so many people complained that Sasuke 30's first two stages were too short/too easy, but they're suddenly so draining in this argument.

You both keep stating that it's so much different in competition, and while that's true to a degree, there are two points that I've made that are still true:

- I've done wall lifts in competition. Neither of you have.
- being strong makes everything easier, including a 50 kg wall lift when you're tired, and the entire rest of course as well, whether you like this fact or not.

The second point is important because that's what sparked this whole discussion in the first place. Yes, the competitors were clearly exhausted from everything beforehand, and that's why they failed. That's really obvious. Most of them could probably lift the walls if they're fresh. Ok. What I'M saying is that if they were stronger, that wouldn't have happened because 50 KG IS NOT HEAVY TO A STRONG ATHLETE. Crossfit is known for being grueling (and retarded), but when a champion weightlifter named Donny Shankle performed a Crossfit workout, he annihilated other Crossfitters' times, even though he's never done Crossfit before. Why? He was clean and jerking 60 kg for 30 reps, when he's clean and jerked over 200 kg in competition. AKA HE'S STRONG, AND 60 KG DOESN'T POSE A THREAT TO HIM. Rich Froning, the more-or-less god of Crossfit, often dominates the Crossfit events because HE IS BRUTALLY STRONG. I'm using Crossfit as an example here because Crossfit is harder than Sasuke, and it's harder than Sasuke because it's designed that way.

NOTE: Crossfit is not training and I don't recommend it.

I said 180 kg would be good, not 200. 200 WOULD be better though. The problem with strength in (most) athletics is that eventually you reach a point where the returns have diminished so much that it takes too much time and effort to continue gaining strength. This is why steroids help so much (assuming you are using them to get stronger). But that's also a good reason why athletes should run some kind of linear progression when they start out; you can add strength quickly and easily like that. To a point.

Bulking/cutting is an approach, but it's not the only one. Depending on your definition of "lean" (because it is relative), you can build muscle without really getting fat (AKA hardcore bulking). Regardless, yes, they are lifting around their body weight. That doesn't negate my original statement of "competitors should get stronger". They should get stronger so they can do it more easily, end of story. There's no reason not to do so. The actual amount they'll be able to lift will vary based on genetics and anthropometry, yes, but 100 kg is definitely not the limit. Healthy men are capable of more. Most could probably hit 140 kg without much trouble.

The hardest part was unlocking the safeties at the bottom. Weights don't move that fast when they're heavy. Notice how the weight kind of flies up once I get it unlocked. Also note that in the deadlift, it's not a very slow lift. The weight comes up. I'm not strong by any means, but I'm strong enough to handle this kind of weight. Low weights - like 50 kg - are not scary. Your 160 kg deadlift at 100 kg body weight is an intermediate lift, so things will get easier for you as you get stronger. And of course anthropometry makes a difference. I'm build to deadlift, which also carries over to the clean, which helps in the wall lift. Maybe you're not. I don't know.

[arsenette]

The problem arose when this entire discussion was derailed when talking about whether or not someone liked the Passing wall over the Wall Lifting obstacle in Sasuke (Rising era). I still stand that in tandem with the rest of the obstacles and a swimming portion (because I still don't call it an "obstacle") it makes anything easier hard and another harder harder. The issue of putting that in context was the part that you haven't touched yet. I could care less how heavy the walls are. Someone else made that comment and it blew up into this entire thread that was moved. I still don't have my answer from the original thread.. wouldn't the addition of everything before including/especially the backstream AND a close timeframe to do it in put into context why everyone is spent at the end of the stage?

The ability to do a specific obstacle over anything else (the wall lift requirement which you seem to be pounding into my head) seems irrelevant to me. That obstacle (the walls - either of them) are being made more difficult and dangerous because you are wearing waterlogged clothes and shoes and goggles and have about 10 seconds left to push through them. Everyone that passed the stage were physically spent because of that damn backstream. TBS could have put a paperclip on the ground and they wouldn't have been able to pass it if they spent most of their energy on the backstream and not trying to fall off the Spider Drop.

[Oti]

I've only spoken about the wall lift in context (save for once, where I specifically mentioned that the competitors are fresh) and I've answered your question multiple times. You keep missing it. I said yes, everything is harder when you are tired. That is obvious and I'm not debating it.

My original message and the only point I still really want to make is simply: the competitors should try to become as strong as possible to prevent that total exhaustion in the future. Being stronger would make EVERYTHING easier.

A deadlift of X amount is not required, but the higher the better. That's along the same lines as my point above; higher deadlift = more strength = easier course. If you think strength is irrelevant, you don't understand training or athletics.