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Post by mikessssssss on Jan 3, 2011 6:38:51 GMT -5
Can't argue with that JP and with all the talk of ratings and whether there will be a Sasuke 27 - more passers would equate to more viewers.
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Post by artyfowljr on Jan 3, 2011 12:21:45 GMT -5
I agree that Sasuke in general is becoming too bonded to the specific training. So yes, I think they should make stage 1 a bit easier. Sasuke needs average joes, dammit! Look at how awesome was Octopus' run. Surprising runs are a big part of Sasuke. And, as a consequence of a harder first stage,make Stage 2 a *real*, challenging stage. So far most of the Stage 2 fails have been based on bad luck IMO.
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Post by jfeathe on Jan 3, 2011 15:18:10 GMT -5
I think the first stage can be called the Rolling Escargot stage and even that obstacle was not impossible. I don't think the Jumping Spider was much harder than before, and the last 4 obstacles were either identical or EASIER than before (100% success rate on the Giant Swing, anyone??)
I've already said this, but if they reduced the angle of the Rolling Escargot, it would be more fair. It was probably over an 80 degree angle- 65 or 70 degrees sounds fair. Nearly every fall came from people slipping out- NOT from a lack of strength or ability.
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Post by Badalight on Jan 3, 2011 15:48:50 GMT -5
I think the first stage can be called the Rolling Escargot stage and even that obstacle was not impossible. I don't think the Jumping Spider was much harder than before, and the last 4 obstacles were either identical or EASIER than before (100% success rate on the Giant Swing, anyone??) I've already said this, but if they reduced the angle of the Rolling Escargot, it would be more fair. It was probably over an 80 degree angle- 65 or 70 degrees sounds fair. Nearly every fall came from people slipping out- NOT from a lack of strength or ability. 1. Adam Truesdell failed the giant swing. 2. That's exactly why people failed. If you didn't have the strength to beat it, you failed. People slipped if either they didn't apply enough pressure or their technique just wasn't any good. A good technique would probably to get as close to the structure as possible. It's the same thing rock climbers would use. You want to be as close to the wall as possible so you use up less strength and all of your weight is going forward. It's harder to fall off that way. I saw a lot of competitors with their butts sticking out, and they all failed. Also, I believe this is a little bit harder for taller competitors because it's harder to get to the wall. This is exactly why people like Kongu and Evan Dollard failed.
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Post by mikessssssss on Jan 3, 2011 15:59:10 GMT -5
It's not really about the escragot though. What the reaction seems to be is that the first stage wasn't that hard it was just that mistakes were made. This i am fine with and can also agree with. Refer back to the OP for a 'solution'.
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Post by Badalight on Jan 3, 2011 16:04:43 GMT -5
Honestly if it wasn't for the escargot we probably would've gotten a lot more passes.
Kongu and Kanno who both failed it probably would've passed. Evan Dollard may have passed. Even the competitors it didn't eliminate it may have had an affect on them for the jumping spider. Yuuji was incredibly dizzy on his first Jumping Spider attempt, and I can only imagine how many others failed due to the order of the obstacles.
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Post by yamfriend on Jan 3, 2011 16:22:38 GMT -5
I agree that Sasuke in general is becoming too bonded to the specific training. So yes, I think they should make stage 1 a bit easier. Sasuke needs average joes, dammit! Look at how awesome was Octopus' run. Surprising runs are a big part of Sasuke. And, as a consequence of a harder first stage,make Stage 2 a *real*, challenging stage. So far most of the Stage 2 fails have been based on bad luck IMO. I agree 100%! More regular people should be able to pass Stage 1 rather than the same people over and over, which is what probably made the show so popular in Japan early on and has made it decline lately. Besides, if the later stages progressively got harder and harder to beat, enough people would likely be taken out in Stage 2 especially that there would still be a reasonable amount of competitors in Stages 3 and 4. Look at the first 4 tournaments. They respectively had 23, 34, 13, and 37 Stage 1 clears, but Stage 2 was tough enough to take out many of the weaker competitors to the point that the number of people in Stage 3 was still close in numbers to what they've been like for much of the rest of Sasuke or just ever-so-slightly higher (the first 4 tournaments respectively had 6, 9, 6, and 11 people in Stage 3, which compared to tournaments 11-17 and 23-26 are in general still pretty close even though tournaments 11-17 and 23-26 never had more than 16 people in Stage 2). Point blank, I think Sasuke should (to an extent) go back to the format of the first 4 tournaments. Here's what I'd have in mind: Stage 1: Similar to, but slightly easier than, Sasuke 25's First Stage. It would still be pretty managable for many people, but not too easy that we'd see too many clears. Stage 2: Sasuke 24's Second Stage. The Salmon Ladder/Unstable Bridge combo could sort of be considered the equivalent to the Sasuke 1-4 Spider Walk/Moving Wall/Spider Climb obstacle(s). In other words, most of the weaker competitors who slipped by Stage 1 would be eliminated here and the stronger competitors would advance to the second half of the stage and/or clear the stage. Stage 3: Current Third Stage. This will put the strongest competitors to the ultimate upper body strength, which is what it's meant to do. Stage 4: Don't care about what they'd specifically have, though IMO they should have one with a very strict time limit like it was with 5-17''s Final Stage. In other words, possible but you'd have to go very quickly.
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Post by theitalianrob on Jan 3, 2011 16:26:25 GMT -5
i agree with the people saying the rolling escargot is too much for stage 1. i think if they brought back the rolling log or maybe the bridge of blades there would be 20-25 stage one finishers.
then maybe in stage 2 replace the dunk tank with the rolling escargot and possibly add an obstacle between the metal spin and the wall lift. thus weeding out some of the weaker competitors.
Stage 3 i think is perfect the way it is, everyone will be striving to defeat the ultimate cliff hanger and whoever the first to beat that will def be thrust into sasuke stardom.
I think with soem of these changes their ratings will def go up. Also i think if levi Levi Meeuwenberg had been able to compete he would have atleast drawn a little more interest then the rest of the americans.
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Post by cole77000 on Jan 3, 2011 16:29:09 GMT -5
I agree that Sasuke in general is becoming too bonded to the specific training. So yes, I think they should make stage 1 a bit easier. Sasuke needs average joes, dammit! Look at how awesome was Octopus' run. Surprising runs are a big part of Sasuke. And, as a consequence of a harder first stage,make Stage 2 a *real*, challenging stage. So far most of the Stage 2 fails have been based on bad luck IMO. I agree 100%! More regular people should be able to pass Stage 1 rather than the same people over and over, which is what probably made the show so popular in Japan early on and has made it decline lately. Besides, if the later stages progressively got harder and harder to beat, enough people would likely be taken out in Stage 2 especially that there would still be a reasonable amount of competitors in Stages 3 and 4. Look at the first 4 tournaments. They respectively had 23, 34, 13, and 37 Stage 1 clears, but Stage 2 was tough enough to take out many of the weaker competitors to the point that the number of people in Stage 3 was still close in numbers to what they've been like for much of the rest of Sasuke or just ever-so-slightly higher (the first 4 tournaments respectively had 6, 9, 6, and 11 people in Stage 3, which compared to tournaments 11-17 and 23-26 are in general still pretty close even though tournaments 11-17 and 23-26 never had more than 16 people in Stage 2). Point blank, I think Sasuke should (to an extent) go back to the format of the first 4 tournaments. Here's what I'd have in mind: Stage 1: Similar to, but slightly easier than, Sasuke 25's First Stage. It would still be pretty managable for many people, but not too easy that we'd see too many clears. Stage 2: Sasuke 24's Second Stage. The Salmon Ladder/Unstable Bridge combo could sort of be considered the equivalent to the Sasuke 1-4 Spider Walk/Moving Wall/Spider Climb obstacle(s). In other words, most of the weaker competitors who slipped by Stage 1 would be eliminated here and the stronger competitors would advance to the second half of the stage and/or clear the stage. Stage 3: Current Third Stage. This will put the strongest competitors to the ultimate upper body strength, which is what it's meant to do. Stage 4: Don't care about what they'd specifically have, though IMO they should have one with a very strict time limit like it was with 5-17''s Final Stage. In other words, possible but you'd have to go very quickly. I agree wholeheartedly. The only problem would be that there would be a massive number of runs on the second and third stages and the taping and broadcast would take forever, but they have managed that before. I would only have a problem with there being lots of people in the third stage because it would get boring very quickly if there were 10+ people there. I think the first stage should be easier like slightly easier than 24/25 level and second stage should stay the same if not harder (maybe put the escargot in there instead of in stage 1).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2011 16:57:27 GMT -5
I think people are still dealing with the shock of the Rolling Escargot.
Trust me guys, next tournament, with known technique, this obstacle won't be as killer.
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Post by cole77000 on Jan 3, 2011 17:15:08 GMT -5
The problem is that very few will be able to get this "known technique." This obstacle is going to be very difficult to replicate. It is not a simple obstacle like the cliffhanger where many people can easily recreate it. This is a main reason why I dislike this obstacle. I feel there is going to be too much luck involved because it does not measure strenght or endurance but a technique that very few people will be able to figure out.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jan 3, 2011 17:38:29 GMT -5
Hell... pretty much all luck... all the fails came from their feet falling out pretty much... and that's very easy to do... Travis almost failed it.. Ishikawa's foot kept coming out.. Yuuji would have failed it if not for beast grip.. When several past finalists and top competitors tie with octopus.. you got a luck obstacle...
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Post by Badalight on Jan 3, 2011 17:59:45 GMT -5
Hell... pretty much all luck... all the fails came from their feet falling out pretty much... and that's very easy to do... Travis almost failed it.. Ishikawa's foot kept coming out.. Yuuji would have failed it if not for beast grip.. When several past finalists and top competitors tie with octopus.. you got a luck obstacle... There is more to it than luck. It takes strength just like the log grip did. You need to constantly be putting pressure on your hands and feet. If you don't put enough pressure your feet will slip off and it's almost impossible to recover from that. There is also technique to it. You need to stay as close to it as possible so your weight is going forward. It's much easier to hold on that way. The people who had their butts sticking out all failed it, and it's obvious as to why. I do think it's a bit unfair for taller competitors, but they have other advantages in stage 1 like the warped wall, so it evens itself out.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jan 3, 2011 18:27:37 GMT -5
Hell... pretty much all luck... all the fails came from their feet falling out pretty much... and that's very easy to do... Travis almost failed it.. Ishikawa's foot kept coming out.. Yuuji would have failed it if not for beast grip.. When several past finalists and top competitors tie with octopus.. you got a luck obstacle... There is more to it than luck. It takes strength just like the log grip did. You need to constantly be putting pressure on your hands and feet. If you don't put enough pressure your feet will slip off and it's almost impossible to recover from that. There is also technique to it. You need to stay as close to it as possible so your weight is going forward. It's much easier to hold on that way. The people who had their butts sticking out all failed it, and it's obvious as to why. I do think it's a bit unfair for taller competitors, but they have other advantages in stage 1 like the warped wall, so it evens itself out. I never said the obstacle was all luck... I was saying there was a high luck factor to the obstacle.. I know it takes alot of strength and you really need to shove yourself into the obstacle (Hell... I was noticing that during watching ANW2 runs the first time...), I was just saying that luck plays a big part of it...
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Post by Oti on Jan 3, 2011 18:45:42 GMT -5
I'm with Bada. It's not luck.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jan 3, 2011 18:49:51 GMT -5
I'm with Bada. It's not luck. Go read my last post again
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Post by RobbyMac on Jan 3, 2011 18:51:35 GMT -5
Again I don't think it should be easier. If we look at the number of 1st stage clears each tournament, I would say 10 is about average. Also if one more American failed and let's say Iketani failed, and instead Yuuji and Nagano passed, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
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Post by YoDaUO on Jan 3, 2011 18:55:56 GMT -5
Only things that could have stopped Ikentani were the RE and the wall...
If they dont change anything for Sasuke 27 I think about 10 Japanese competitors will clear. In all honesty.. the Rolling Escargot is the only main change in the first stage from Sasuke 24. And its early in it so people arent so tired once they reach it.
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Post by Oti on Jan 3, 2011 18:58:34 GMT -5
I was just saying that luck plays a big part of it... I did.
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Post by TCM on Jan 3, 2011 19:01:18 GMT -5
The only time that obstacle took luck IMO is when a couple people slipped and just got back in the grips before turning. I heard that they had even made the RE slightly easier letting up on the original angle. Once they make it slightly more possible to clear it and you still don't you just didn't have the right technique for it like was said. What obstacle didn't take even the tiniest bit of luck to clear at one point (besides ones with 100% clear rates)? Look at Nagano's dismount on the Circle Slider in 17. He was lucky to be tilted just enough so as not to fall backward. The RE doesn't take a lot of luck if you're skilled enough. You only need a lucky charm if you were a joke competitor. Look at Kenjiro Ishimaru in the digest. He nearly cleared in in the daytime, he just was a bit too far. I think it's going to stay, although I do agree that M9/TBS needs to fix their competitor choosing as of late. Look at the lineup; pitiful how many people there were you could just tell weren't making it past the Step Slider or Hazard Swing, let alone anything further.
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