|
Post by TCM on Jul 27, 2010 15:20:15 GMT -5
The problem lies with the fact that I want new Sasuke to continue and that so far is not happening with Japan losing interest. G4 paying money to M9 for doing ANW doesn't help Sasuke in Japan. Japan doesn't like the influx of excessive foreigners or G4. They have spoken through blogs and they have spoken by not turning on Sasuke anymore. So anyone saying that money from G4 will help Sasuke simply does not understand the Japanese market and never will. So it's G4's fault for doing this? Lets see here. TBS and M9 both agreed to allow foreign competitors into its gameshow. G4 didn't FORCE this or anything. M9 and TBS are both big boys here, it's not G4's fault that foreigners are on Sasuke, it's the creaters fault. Before I go into the part I quoted, I will say that airing Sasuke in America gives G4 a ratings boost, to get them more sponsers/more money which will help them say to Comcast "Don't shut us down". You take out Ninja Warrior/ANW, Attack of the Show, and X-Play, and G4 doesn't get to se 2011. As cool as any new show G4 comes up with sounds, they may be decent enough to get two seasons but aren't the cash cows the other three are. But G4 has helped monopolize the foreign market. Only one country besides America will even have a trials for foreigners this year, the whole "contact your network" rule screws over any foreigner who doesn't live in America, Japan or Taiwan at the time of the trial process. TBS/M9 has been fine with foreigners since the beginning, we've only had this many problems once G4 decided on making ANC into a elaborate deal. Even if guys in America want to go on Sasuke but don't like what they're doing, they can only go along with it since its their only logical chance. As much as I hate the bloggers too (The whole Yuuji shoe deal was stupid), they're the closest we've got to knowing how the audience in Japan feels. And we've been through this already, the only reason (at the very least in my mind) Sasuke got a 7.0 is because they not only gave little to no promotion themselves, but they didn't let the competitors promote outside of professional media. Not to mention, you place it in the same timeframe as a popular skating competiton and a VERY popular movie, of course ratings will be low. Plus, who the hell would go "Oh, an American movie -- wait, America brought us those 10 from Sasuke I MUST BOYCOTT THIS MOVIE"? That's like me not listening to music from t.A.T.u. because of the hell the Soviet Union gave us during the Cold War. ANW only has so many hoops to jump through because G4 wants to make it elaborate like I said earlier. Also like I said, at least we even have a trials to be concerned with since only 3 countries do. Do I blame G4 for wanting to make it a TV series, no. Do I blame G4 for trying to make this a separate entity from Sasuke which makes it seem like the trip to Sasuke is bonus? That's a little tougher to agree with.
|
|
supersheep
Hashimoto Kōji
Former Admin
Posts: 2,242
|
Post by supersheep on Jul 27, 2010 16:08:31 GMT -5
As for the jumping through hoops, do remember that all their expenses are paid, the same cannot be said for most of the Japanese competitors.
|
|
|
Post by TCM on Jul 27, 2010 16:16:02 GMT -5
As for the jumping through hoops, do remember that all their expenses are paid, the same cannot be said for most of the Japanese competitors. True, but that's one of the few positives G4's ever had with trials.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Jul 27, 2010 17:18:09 GMT -5
As for the jumping through hoops, do remember that all their expenses are paid, the same cannot be said for most of the Japanese competitors. Yeah. It reminds me of the story of Nagano before he became an allstar. Shoving his family in a minifan to take a 24 hour driving trip including a ferry ride from his house to Sasuke and getting cut from the broadcast when he got there. He had to repeat that trip for a number of years before he was a star and M9 paid his way to fly out. Also, ask the competitors from Japan who pay for their way to Sasuke Trials every year.. that's provided they are even invited UNCLI #5 wasn't even invited to the Trials in Sasuke 25. Yuuji's and Keita's been doing trials on their own dime for the better part of 7 years so I have no idea why Juice you are talking about that ANW is the only trials. ANW has only existed now for it's 2nd tournament and ANC 2 was the only real trial (with 6 guys..) Sasuke Trials have been going on for 10 years consistently. There are multiple stages that don't repeat.. ANW you do the same thing twice just faster each time.. The difference also in STQ - it's a small group (around 40-80 depending on how large the trials is) that is chosen from more than 2 thousand entries. IF they are asked to go then they are whittled down to whoever is left standing. In some cases only 1 has survived (just ask Matsuda in Sasuke 19). ANW has guaranteed spots higher than Sasuke Trials in Japan has EVER had. As for bloggers, they are the pulse of Sasuke. Most of UNCLI, almost all the STQ'ers, former competitors, entertainers.. all have blogs and have mentioned their problems with Sasuke and explained why their family members stopped watching the show. THAT is important since it explains why the ratings are taking a dive in Japan. And finally the argument that the money is good for Japan has been brought up several times by posters in these forums and in G4's forums. The argument is ludicrous and has been explained why it's not. G4 money does not equate to keeping Sasuke going on TBS in Japan. That's not how television works. M9 controls the people who come into the tourney (contestants, spots) that's not my argument.. they DON'T control what G4 does.. this money is given only to the Americans so by default M9 can't touch it and can't tell G4 to cut it the heck out since it's US money and given to US citizens. That's why it's such a bad idea because it's done by way of results on a foreign show.. one they don't own.
|
|
|
Post by mikessssssss on Jul 27, 2010 17:18:53 GMT -5
If an American managed to achieve kanzenseiha they completely deserve a monetry reward even if Sasuke isn't about money. Of course, the same applies to all compettitors but if G4 want to give them the money then it's essentially an added incentive and there's nothing wrong with that. Although i do see the pitfalls; of which there are plenty.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Jul 27, 2010 17:25:32 GMT -5
Mike.. the problem with your statement is.. if someone ELSE gets Kanzenseiha.. they don't get $250k.. if an American does.. not only do they get that.. they get the standard prize money that is available - that's 2 million yen and if M9 manages to get another sponsor to hawk up a car. The additional 250k is ONLY to Americans while the other 85+ competitors don't qualify even if they win. Example.. Nagano win = 2 million yen .. Levi win = 22 million yen. See the problem? Why is Levi (or any American) worth 10 times more than another competitor in Sasuke?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 17:35:51 GMT -5
OK, my thoughts on this. I don't object to G4 offering additional money. What I do object to is that it's about 10 times what M9 awards and it's only available to Americans. I think it would be better if G4 offered to match what M9 awards and if they made it available to all competitors. If a competitor won they would get the 2 million yen from M9 and 2 million yen from G4, regardless of nationality. If G4 wants to give extra money to the winner I think that would be a better way to do it.
|
|
|
Post by mikessssssss on Jul 27, 2010 17:45:33 GMT -5
Mike.. the problem with your statement is.. if someone ELSE gets Kanzenseiha.. they don't get $250k.. if an American does.. not only do they get that.. they get the standard prize money that is available - that's 2 million yen and if M9 manages to get another sponsor to hawk up a car. The additional 250k is ONLY to Americans while the other 85+ competitors don't qualify even if they win. Example.. Nagano win = 2 million yen .. Levi win = 22 million yen. See the problem? Why is Levi (or any American) worth 10 times more than another competitor in Sasuke? Because he's American. G4 are obviously gonna take more interest in the American competitors. We shouldn't blame G4 because all they are doing is rewarding their competitors for being awesome and dedicating so much time to training. M9/TBS should be paying the Japanese/other atheletes more -which would be fairer, but if they don't it's hardly G4's fault. For G4 there is obviously the marketing aspect and expansion: more rewards = more contestants/publicity which = more money. Can G4 theoretically give ALL athletes extra? I guess they aren't affiliated that closely or am i wrong? If they can do this then of course its retarded.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Jul 27, 2010 17:55:37 GMT -5
Theoretically YES G4 can give money to the Japanese competitors if they wanted.. just not this much (10 times the amount of the current prize money). So far G4 has not given their reasons why they are refusing to give this money to anyone but the Americans. M9/TBS has not raised their cash prize.. just added a car which is donated by a sponsor.
Issue being.. why can't G4 so this in ANW2? I wouldn't have an issue with it simply because ANW is an American created show.. Sasuke does not belong to them.. they are supposed to be guests in someone else's show. Grandstanding by only giving money to the Americans in someone else's show is not going to "force" anyone to raise their already standard prize money.. it's only going to make G4 look like rich kids pampering their own people in front of everyone else who is not allowed to touch the cash. Sasuke has other competitors.. not just the Americans. Be fair to all or don't give out the money. Don't play favorites. It should be equal to all not just to a small percentage of the competition. This isn't their show.
|
|
|
Post by TCM on Jul 27, 2010 17:57:22 GMT -5
The problem is money was never an issue. At all. We even had thought they would double it to four million yen, but that was proved false. It was all about 100 people of as many types as possible attempting for a shot at "glory". We all connected with competitors because seeing them upset after failing wasn't because they wouldn't get a car or some cash, it was because they wasn't able to reach the top of that tower or clear a stage they had been trying to for years. G4 adding a prize this big could potentially make people think they are trying to go "Hey, who cares about all that glory crap, here's a REAL prize to work for". Maybe they don't mean it, but it sure does seem like that to many people. I'm more baffled how it's ten times the amount of what you get itstead of matching or being slightly lower. I also would have preferred this be a private matter (as long as its legal to do so).
|
|
supersheep
Hashimoto Kōji
Former Admin
Posts: 2,242
|
Post by supersheep on Jul 27, 2010 18:03:12 GMT -5
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Jul 27, 2010 18:04:21 GMT -5
The problem is money was never an issue. At all. We even had thought they would double it to four million yen, but that was proved false. It was all about 100 people of as many types as possible attempting for a shot at "glory". We all connected with competitors because seeing them upset after failing wasn't because they wouldn't get a car or some cash, it was because they wasn't able to reach the top of that tower or clear a stage they had been trying to for years. G4 adding a prize this big could potentially make people think they are trying to go "Hey, who cares about all that glory crap, here's a REAL prize to work for". Maybe they don't mean it, but it sure does seem like that to many people. I'm more baffled how it's ten times the amount of what you get itstead of matching or being slightly lower. I also would have preferred this be a private matter (as long as its legal to do so). It can't be private because the caveat is that they have to win Sasuke.. which is owned by M9 and aired on TBS.. so by that alone they have to announce it since it's linked to a foreign show. It's that link that is causing the problem. G4 can do wtf they want on American soil with their own shows.. it's that they involved someone else's and limited it to not include all of the contestants of said show that is the real problem. The perception issues is a whole different story.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2010 11:07:29 GMT -5
Also, ask the competitors from Japan who pay for their way to Sasuke Trials every year.. that's provided they are even invited UNCLI #5 wasn't even invited to the Trials in Sasuke 25. Yuuji's and Keita's been doing trials on their own dime for the better part of 7 years so I have no idea why Juice you are talking about that ANW is the only trials. ANW has only existed now for it's 2nd tournament and ANC 2 was the only real trial (with 6 guys..) Sasuke Trials have been going on for 10 years consistently. There are multiple stages that don't repeat.. ANW you do the same thing twice just faster each time.. The difference also in STQ - it's a small group (around 40-80 depending on how large the trials is) that is chosen from more than 2 thousand entries. IF they are asked to go then they are whittled down to whoever is left standing. In some cases only 1 has survived (just ask Matsuda in Sasuke 19). ANW has guaranteed spots higher than Sasuke Trials in Japan has EVER had. Here's the difference between the Japanese trials and the American trials. If you got to Sasuke through the American trials, and ended up making it all the way through stage 3, you STILL have to go through trials again. However, if you got to Sasuke through the Sasuke trials and made it to stage 3, you probably will get invited again, and you won't have to go through Sasuke trials next time. That is a big difference. Now it's pretty much garenteed, that if an American wants to win Sasuske, he has to do MUCH MORE than a Japanese competitor has to do. Now, this is G4's doing, they are holding people like Levi and Brian back, however, as a compensation, they get more money if they win. I think that's fair imo. As for bloggers, they are the pulse of Sasuke. Most of UNCLI, almost all the STQ'ers, former competitors, entertainers.. all have blogs and have mentioned their problems with Sasuke and explained why their family members stopped watching the show. THAT is important since it explains why the ratings are taking a dive in Japan. How many bloggers are their VS Japanese citizens who know nothing about Sasuke. How many television users do you think live in Japan? Do you truly, TRULY believe that the amount of people reading these blogs can REALLY make a difference in ratings? I really don't think so. I'll say it before, and I'll say it again, Sasuke's hardcore fans mean nothing when it comes to ratings. It's the larger populated casual fans that matter. Casual fans don't read Sasuke blogs. And finally the argument that the money is good for Japan has been brought up several times by posters in these forums and in G4's forums. The argument is ludicrous and has been explained why it's not. G4 money does not equate to keeping Sasuke going on TBS in Japan. That's not how television works. That's fine... M9 controls the people who come into the tourney (contestants, spots) that's not my argument.. they DON'T control what G4 does.. this money is given only to the Americans so by default M9 can't touch it and can't tell G4 to cut it the heck out since it's US money and given to US citizens. That's why it's such a bad idea because it's done by way of results on a foreign show.. one they don't own. They do control what G4 does. If M9 says, "Hey G4, stop paying your contestants money or we will stop doing business with you." G4 will concede. It's as simple as that. Obviously M9 doesn't think anything G4 is doing is that big of a deal, otherwise they would've done something about it.
|
|
|
Post by artyfowljr on Jul 28, 2010 12:11:14 GMT -5
Here's the difference between the Japanese trials and the American trials. If you got to Sasuke through the American trials, and ended up making it all the way through stage 3, you STILL have to go through trials again. However, if you got to Sasuke through the Sasuke trials and made it to stage 3, you probably will get invited again, and you won't have to go through Sasuke trials next time. That is a big difference. Now it's pretty much garenteed, that if an American wants to win Sasuske, he has to do MUCH MORE than a Japanese competitor has to do. I can't deny the facts, Americans have to do extra work, but to be honest I don't think it's so much more than Japanese guys that it's worth ten times the original prize. Heck, look at people like Keita (there's a crapload of guys in the same situation, he's the first that comes to my mind) .I can't deny the facts, I myself find unfair that Americans who did so well like Levi and Brian have to go through trials again, but if G4 wanted to give an extra to Americans IMO it shouldn't be so high. They do control what G4 does. If M9 says, "Hey G4, stop paying your contestants money or we will stop doing business with you." G4 will concede. It's as simple as that. Obviously M9 doesn't think anything G4 is doing is that big of a deal, otherwise they would've done something about it. I admit what I'm about to say is just theory, I don't know enough about these things to be sure. But , well, a lot of money goes to M9 thanks to the Sasuke business they do with G4; perhaps too much to be so drastical and tell them they'll cut it if they do things like this extra prize.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2010 14:13:47 GMT -5
I admit what I'm about to say is just theory, I don't know enough about these things to be sure. But , well, a lot of money goes to M9 thanks to the Sasuke business they do with G4; perhaps too much to be so drastical and tell them they'll cut it if they do things like this extra prize. Really? I think it's the opposite. I think M9 makes G4 alot of money. M9, I think, gets a small paycheck from G4, but that's about it. Overall, in order for Sasuke to continue, they need to do well in Japan, not really anywhere else. Hooooooooooowever, at the same time, Sasuke 25 got such a low rating, and yet TBS still believes the series is viable with 26 coming. So what your saying may be somewhat true, who knows. and I'll reply to the 2nd part of your post when I come back. I'm going to ChuckEcheese
|
|
|
Post by japantv1210 on Jul 28, 2010 15:04:03 GMT -5
I guess I'll throw my two cents into this whole mess here. I think it's kind of disrespectful to give such a high monetary prize to a select group of people in a competition that's more about honor and comraderie than money and power. I don't think g4 intended for it to get this huge of a backlash, but it was in pretty bad taste for them to give this high of a prize to only a few people imo. Now for some reason, I want to stay slightly offtopic and argue about whether or not bloggers influence Sasuke haha. Honestly, some blogs, like Ryo's and Keita's (even though I love them), I really don't think they influence Sasuke too much. But, other blogs, like Sato's and other popular comedians', probably have a very large impact in whether or not people will watch the show. Many people will tune in to watch them due to their popularity, but there's probably very few people that will tune in to see if Ryo will get past the seventh obstacle on his third attempt. So I think only the popular blogs influence Sasuke alot, and due to their popularity, they're probably pretty restrictive in what they say, unless things are real different in Japan when it comes to celebrities .
|
|
|
Post by thatoneuser on Jul 28, 2010 20:33:13 GMT -5
Basically what G4 is doing: 1. Offer lucrative cash prize to entice viewers 2. Throw 20+ hard obstacles they haven't done before at them 3. 4. Profit. You people act like anyone is going to win. And besides anyone who's doing it just for the money isn't going to make it to Japan, it's going to be the ones in strong physical shape who want the experience of defeating the SASUKE course. I mean have you seen Wipeout? Do you think any of them can pass the steps?
|
|
|
Post by supernovamaniac on Jul 28, 2010 20:41:23 GMT -5
M9 controls the people who come into the tourney (contestants, spots) that's not my argument.. they DON'T control what G4 does.. this money is given only to the Americans so by default M9 can't touch it and can't tell G4 to cut it the heck out since it's US money and given to US citizens. That's why it's such a bad idea because it's done by way of results on a foreign show.. one they don't own. They do control what G4 does. If M9 says, "Hey G4, stop paying your contestants money or we will stop doing business with you." G4 will concede. It's as simple as that. Obviously M9 doesn't think anything G4 is doing is that big of a deal, otherwise they would've done something about it. And how do you know that M9 will actually try to control G4 to stop doing what's happening right now? Also, who has the upper hand here? G4, not M9. Let's backtrace before G4 acquired the rights for the show in America. Who paid M9 to broadcast the show in America? G4. Which company made negotiations with a show in Japan to send American contestants? G4. Who persuaded M9 into thinking that the foreign contestants should come through their local broadcasting stations? G4. If M9 doesn't say that they don't like what G4 is doing, they are just going to lose more money, and possibly support of SASUKE/NW from other countries around the world. The person with more money has the upper power, and in this case, it's certainly not M9 paying G4 to keep the show alive in America. Really? I think it's the opposite. I think M9 makes G4 alot of money. M9, I think, gets a small paycheck from G4, but that's about it. Overall, in order for Sasuke to continue, they need to do well in Japan, not really anywhere else. That's called business. You make good business deals, you get a good result out of it. G4 made a good move when it came with SASUKE/NW, so they were able to get exclusive rights to the show and hold it since. Though, G4 making money through NW is out from M9's hands now, since G4 has the exclusive rights and they can do whatever they want with the rights. I'm not sure how much G4 pays M9 to keep the exclusive rights to SASUKE/NW outside of Japan, so I can't discuss it here. And... for the last part... Hell, if it doesn't succeed in Japan but everyone else loves it, then M9 will do something about it. I don't think a company like M9 will completely quit on SASUKE just based on ratings in Japan; as shown in the past, they do acknowledge about the international fanbase.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2010 20:42:49 GMT -5
Basically what G4 is doing: 1. Offer lucrative cash prize to entice viewers 2. Throw 20+ hard obstacles they haven't done before at them 3. 4. Profit. You people act like anyone is going to win. And besides anyone who's doing it just for the money isn't going to make it to Japan, it's going to be the ones in strong physical shape who want the experience of defeating the SASUKE course. I mean have you seen Wipeout? Do you think any of them can pass the steps? Although I agree with you, I think everyone is more offended at the thought of it than it actually happening. The fact that G4 is offering a prize money to only the Americans offends some people.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Jul 28, 2010 20:43:51 GMT -5
Excellent perspective Nova You hit the nail right on the head.
|
|