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Post by arsenette on May 9, 2010 15:30:16 GMT -5
And it's not like he even needs to truly worry about entering. Hey you know my thoughts on anyone (regardless if I like them or not) passed stage 1. It would be an insult if they HAVE to compete in ANW to return to Sasuke. I know there is a standing invite in M9 for Brian and Levi as it is. They already have footage of them in ANW so I think it's time they just give them a return pass without having to go through the shenanigans. Leave ANW to the competitors who haven't gotten the chance yet to get to Sasuke and pass stage 1. I don't see why Levi and Brian can't go to ANW as announcers or something.. or just there to promote ANW but not to compete IMO.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2010 16:14:18 GMT -5
And it's not like he even needs to truly worry about entering. Hey you know my thoughts on anyone (regardless if I like them or not) passed stage 1. It would be an insult if they HAVE to compete in ANW to return to Sasuke. I know there is a standing invite in M9 for Brian and Levi as it is. They already have footage of them in ANW so I think it's time they just give them a return pass without having to go through the shenanigans. Leave ANW to the competitors who haven't gotten the chance yet to get to Sasuke and pass stage 1. I don't see why Levi and Brian can't go to ANW as announcers or something.. or just there to promote ANW but not to compete IMO. Becuase, from G4's perspective, they save the show. There the "All Stars" of ANW, so without them, its pretty lack luster seeing people who no one cares about. I agree from a competition stand point, but from a business prospective I don't.
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Post by arsenette on May 9, 2010 16:40:22 GMT -5
As for a business standpoint.. it doesn't make sense. They already qualified and won and did well in Sasuke 23 (the only ANW they had) and heck.. Brian and Levi did well under ANC winning ANC2 on the other trials based show. Given their Sasuke record it's more prestigious to have gone through the trials and succeeded.. besides.. they went to Sasuke 25 and continued their success. To make them return to trials is an utter slap in the face and considered a step backwards even business-wise. If they continually keep having to go back.. what is the point of ANW in the first place? Wouldn't having a title of American Ninja Warrior be more prestigious than having to redo it over and over? G4 can say that about Levi and Brian. An automatic guarantee raises the profile of the athletes who won.. heck.. make them judges like they did for Paul Terek even though he never was attached to G4. I despise the different rules because of nationality. G4 continually trying to supplant the status quo to raise their own show in importance. In the long run it would behove G4 to just pick new people who haven't succeeded on the course and honor the successes of their past champions. Again.. despite what I may think of them personally.. what more can they do? No other country has to go through as many hoops.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2010 21:24:23 GMT -5
As for a business standpoint.. it doesn't make sense. They already qualified and won and did well in Sasuke 23 (the only ANW they had) and heck.. Brian and Levi did well under ANC winning ANC2 on the other trials based show. Given their Sasuke record it's more prestigious to have gone through the trials and succeeded.. besides.. they went to Sasuke 25 and continued their success. To make them return to trials is an utter slap in the face and considered a step backwards even business-wise. If they continually keep having to go back.. what is the point of ANW in the first place? Wouldn't having a title of American Ninja Warrior be more prestigious than having to redo it over and over? G4 can say that about Levi and Brian. An automatic guarantee raises the profile of the athletes who won.. heck.. make them judges like they did for Paul Terek even though he never was attached to G4. I despise the different rules because of nationality. G4 continually trying to supplant the status quo to raise their own show in importance. In the long run it would behove G4 to just pick new people who haven't succeeded on the course and honor the successes of their past champions. Again.. despite what I may think of them personally.. what more can they do? No other country has to go through as many hoops. None of your post had anything to do with a business standpoint, but the fairness-competition stand point. ANW is not a trial, its a different show form NW entirely, this is how G4 is doing it, and the reason is simply because the Sasuke Trials isn't a successful formula. I think ANW needs more fimiliar faces, its not entertaining watching the same random white guy go over and over again. Seeing more fimiliar white people gives the show a bit more excitment. Thats all I have to say about it. Is it fair? No. But hey, thats how ANW can become successful. You gotta take the good with the bad. And although American's have to go through so many hoops to get on Sasuke, its better than being in Europe and having no hoops to go through at all.
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Post by arsenette on May 9, 2010 22:19:10 GMT -5
Well no matter how much paint is slapped on ANW it's still a trials show M9 allowed them to be the ONLY way Americans can get on the show and G4 invented ANW as a measure of choosing who goes. So by that alone it's a trials show. I'm actually pointing out what would make a good show considering that everyone liked ANC2 (even if the format was a bit wonky and had too small of a group competing). Everyone knows that the winners go to Sasuke.. that alone is a trials aspect. The arguments against ANW the first time around were that they preempted Sasuke 23 because of it. I doubt G4 will make the same mistake again. Business standpoint is still correct. When you have a product already in place (ANW1) you parade your champion around.. not reinsert them in the lineup. Think of Project Runway, American Idol, Survivor.. you say "here's the champion of ANW".. not.. "oh yeah.. we screw you by putting you back here because your Sasuke stage clears were irrelevant"... G4 SHOULD parade their champions.. after all.. they did well on Sasuke. That is a ridiculously good marketing ploy to exploit and good business.
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 10, 2010 3:44:35 GMT -5
Levi and Brian commentating would be a nightmare. I can hear it now...
Levi: "Umm... he's up to the umm... rope thing ... Ahhh... NO! ... s**t." Brian: "Dude. That was.... wow."
Given G4's position, I think their best method of "parading them around" is to have them compete, give them a lot of camera time, and feature their friends as "a friend of Levi's" or such.
Besides, if they start giving out their limited free passes to everyone that passed Stage One, we'd soon be in a situation like Taiwan was in where there are no spots left for anyone new. If ANW4 sends 10 people but 9 of the slots are reserved for people from ANW, ANW2, and ANW3, then you lose a lot of appeal.
(No offense intended on the commentary hyperbole. You two rock, but ANW is already way too heavy on the post-production commentary.)
P.S. Project Runway has never paraded their champions around. Excuse me while I pour bleach into my eyeballs for knowing this and breaking Guy Code by admitting it.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 10:03:10 GMT -5
Well no matter how much paint is slapped on ANW it's still a trials show M9 allowed them to be the ONLY way Americans can get on the show and G4 invented ANW as a measure of choosing who goes. So by that alone it's a trials show. I'm actually pointing out what would make a good show considering that everyone liked ANC2 (even if the format was a bit wonky and had too small of a group competing). Everyone knows that the winners go to Sasuke.. that alone is a trials aspect. The arguments against ANW the first time around were that they preempted Sasuke 23 because of it. I doubt G4 will make the same mistake again. Business standpoint is still correct. When you have a product already in place (ANW1) you parade your champion around.. not reinsert them in the lineup. Think of Project Runway, American Idol, Survivor.. you say "here's the champion of ANW".. not.. "oh yeah.. we screw you by putting you back here because your Sasuke stage clears were irrelevant"... G4 SHOULD parade their champions.. after all.. they did well on Sasuke. That is a ridiculously good marketing ploy to exploit and good business. The reason why the formula you have works for American Idol, Survivor etc, is over time, people get to know the competitors, and than root for them. ANW is full of contestants, and is only 4 hours long. You don't get to know the competitors. So this is how I see it. The less familiar faces, the less people are interested, and without the American equivalent of Nagano and Takeda, I don't think its a good idea to disclude them from the show.
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Post by quasikoz on May 10, 2010 10:17:16 GMT -5
If we know for sure it's the Top 10 going to Sasuke from ANW, then yea it's a risk putting Levi and Brian back through the meat grinder since we don't know if they could both get through ANW again.
I agree with Arsenette that Levi and Brian should get exemptions. They are the stars. It's not like Nagano and Takeda are going through trials to get to Sasuke.
ANW does need to attach those 2 to the show in some capacity whether they have a hand in creating the trials or commentating or something.
I guess what it really it comes down to is whether G4 wants to make its money with Sasuke or ANW. Because that's the show you make sure Brian and Levi are competing on. I know those two aren't selling any ads or propping up ratings numbers but they are the stars nonetheless.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 10:20:28 GMT -5
If we know for sure it's the Top 10 going to Sasuke from ANW, then yea it's a risk putting Levi and Brian back through the meat grinder since we don't know if they could both get through ANW again. I agree with Arsenette that Levi and Brian should get exemptions. They are the stars. It's not like Nagano and Takeda are going through trials to get to Sasuke. ANW does need to attach those 2 to the show in some capacity whether they have a hand in creating the trials or commentating or something. I guess what it really it comes down to is whether G4 wants to make its money with Sasuke or ANW. Because that's the show you make sure Brian and Levi are competing on. I know those two aren't selling any ads or propping up ratings numbers but they are the stars nonetheless. Your right, it is up to G4 where they want to make there money. And they probably would want it at ANW for 2 reasons. 1 is that ANW was the number 1 highest rated show on G4. Ever. And 2 is if Levi and Brian do good on the course, than they go to NW, which means a rating boost for both shows, not just one.
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Post by quasikoz on May 10, 2010 15:12:38 GMT -5
I also think, long term, if Sasuke gets canceled and ANW still has high ratings, then G4 might consider making ANW the new Sasuke.
And if that ends up being the case, they'll sink their money and Levi and Brian (if they'd want to keep going) into ANW.
I'd consider these first few ANW's to be trials for G4 into figuring out how to manage costs and production to have their own obstacle course show if that's their endgame.
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Post by YoDaUO on May 10, 2010 16:27:27 GMT -5
I also think, long term, if Sasuke gets canceled and ANW still has high ratings, then G4 might consider making ANW the new Sasuke. That... would be.... uh.. BAD Its not even going to be Sasuke anymore.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 17:14:05 GMT -5
I also think, long term, if Sasuke gets canceled and ANW still has high ratings, then G4 might consider making ANW the new Sasuke. What do you mean by "New Sasuke." G4 is already treating it the equivalent of Sasuke. And if that ends up being the case, they'll sink their money and Levi and Brian (if they'd want to keep going) into ANW. I'd consider these first few ANW's to be trials for G4 into figuring out how to manage costs and production to have their own obstacle course show if that's their endgame. I think G4 knows Sasuke is low in the ratings. I'm SURE if/when Sasuke ends, G4 will keep ANW going for a long time. But I'm okay with that. Its no Sasuke, but its better than nothing. Wipeout is way worse than ANW.
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Post by arsenette on May 10, 2010 22:43:42 GMT -5
I also think, long term, if Sasuke gets canceled and ANW still has high ratings, then G4 might consider making ANW the new Sasuke. What do you mean by "New Sasuke." G4 is already treating it the equivalent of Sasuke. And if that ends up being the case, they'll sink their money and Levi and Brian (if they'd want to keep going) into ANW. I'd consider these first few ANW's to be trials for G4 into figuring out how to manage costs and production to have their own obstacle course show if that's their endgame. I think G4 knows Sasuke is low in the ratings. I'm SURE if/when Sasuke ends, G4 will keep ANW going for a long time. But I'm okay with that. Its no Sasuke, but its better than nothing. Wipeout is way worse than ANW. The problem though is that they had a lot of bad press and a cubic boatload of controversy with replacing Sasuke with ANW in December, 2009. Many people were under the mistaken impression that right after ANW Sasuke 23 was going to air and it didn't. It's not saying that people hated ANW (though there are harsh criticisms especially after Sasuke 23 was preempted) but a lot of problems arose when it was clear that they had the intention of replacing Sasuke altogether. Once G4 finally decided to slap it together and throw it out there (Clearly without an editor but most casual people don't care as I'm starting to notice.. they believe everyone that is up on the screen and perpetuate the myths..) the furor died down. Right now it's surviving purely on the backs of the hopefuls. Most people who hate the show have no intention of ever entering ANW and resent G4 for even thinking it can replace the real show. They can change that perception by putting it alongside Sasuke in it's rightful place. As a trials to the main show and not the replacement. That way the hardcore ANW/ANC/American entries can enjoy seeing themselves tackle the course with the hopes of getting in the show.. and us who care more about that main show still get to see Sasuke in the USA in a timely manner. It's up to G4 to actually do that now. They have the potential to keep both audiences interested provided they realize where they actually fit in terms of importance.
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Post by davidcampbell on May 11, 2010 2:32:52 GMT -5
If sasuke WERE to be canceled (which it's not in the near future at least) I'd hope ANW would continue. Would it somehow offend someone that it simply exists? If you don't like it, don't watch it.
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Post by quasikoz on May 11, 2010 9:05:18 GMT -5
I get what Arsenette is saying about the first ANW/Sasuke 23 debacle G4 had.
But I don't think anyone should have a problem with ANW as an entity. I know we all have our opinions on how it should operate as sister-programming to Sasuke, but I think we can all agree we'd want to see ANW continue on when Sasuke comes to an end in Japan.
Hopefully that won't happen for a long time. And in the meantime we can all give G4 the time to build up ANW (look at how much Sasuke has grown!) and show our support with viewership (ratings ratings ratings) to let G4 know we want more ANW.
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Post by arsenette on May 11, 2010 17:46:13 GMT -5
If sasuke WERE to be canceled (which it's not in the near future at least) I'd hope ANW would continue. Would it somehow offend someone that it simply exists? If you don't like it, don't watch it. No I don't have a problem ANW existing past the Sasuke life cycle. What I took major offense to was G4's preempting Sasuke for it back in December and it took 4 months for them to get the hint that it shouldn't have replaced Sasuke at all. That is the crux of my displeasure. I have minor points of hate like the God-awful announcing and the format where no one was numbered and out of order.. stupid things like that but I still like the idea of an all out competition. That was my problem with ANC 3 and 4 (no offense David I'm glad you went ) that it reverted back to a voting instead of expanding on ANC2 which was fun to watch despite it's format. I'm glad M9 eased my fears of it ending. It kinda depends what M9 wants to do with ANW once Sasuke is over since ANW only exists with it's blessing. It was supposed to be the vehicle in which the USA people were picked.. not what G4 turned it into. I'm sure G4 will push for it but they can't do it without M9's blessing since it is a sister program with the intent of promoting Sasuke in the USA.
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Post by davidcampbell on May 12, 2010 1:00:33 GMT -5
You're assuming a lot here. The editing of the last few Sasuke turnaments was annoying though. Especially how they made things up like how Yuugi made it to the final stage his first time ever at Sasuke, when it was actually his third time if I remember correctly?
Nobody has ever made it to the final stage their first time out.
Anyway my assumptions about ANW are pretty much the opposite of yours. When I was as Sasuke 22 I mentioned to a producer that there should be an American version of Sasuke. She said that everyone really wanted that to happen. When Ninjafest4 came around and then ANW1 and now ANW2 I've always assumed that they were ramping up to doing an actual full scale American Sasuke.
But that's just my guess. We'll see what happens in the next year or so. I'm crossing my fingers for this though since all us Americans could have a good chance at going on a real Sasuke-scale show (as opposed to a minitureized ANW version), instead of all the Americans competing for a few coveted slots.
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Post by RiderLeangle on May 12, 2010 1:45:42 GMT -5
You're assuming a lot here. The editing of the last few Sasuke turnaments was annoying though. Especially how they made things up like how Yuugi made it to the final stage his first time ever at Sasuke, when it was actually his third time if I remember correctly? Nobody has ever made it to the final stage their first time out. 1: It's Yuuji, not Yuugi..2: Sasuke 21 was his first time, He made it to the final stage his second time.. I shouldn't have to tell you it was 22 since you were there Actually a few people have.. In the first few tournaments (I know 5 between 1 and 2, I forget if the two guys in the final in 3 not named Yamamoto, Oomori or Yamada competed prior).
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Post by davidcampbell on May 12, 2010 3:25:12 GMT -5
Yeah I figured there may have been someone in the early ones, but I guess in my mind it doesn't really count since it was so easy back then.
This thread has really gotten off topic though, too bad we don't have any tryout info to talk about.
Oh I got something....kinda. It sounds like from what the Facebook NW guy said that ANW2 will be at a different location. Wonder if that means their going bigger?
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Post by Ninja Chris on May 12, 2010 8:24:47 GMT -5
Oh I got something....kinda. It sounds like from what the Facebook NW guy said that ANW2 will be at a different location. Wonder if that means their going bigger? Yeah, I wondered about that myself. I mean, *I* personally didn't have a problem with a huge-a** parking lot for the tryouts. It didn't even look all that bad on the TV show. But then again, that's me, and I know most people disagree. But seeing how they're getting really enthused over a specific area... wonder what it'll be like?
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