texas
Kuramochi Minoru
Posts: 21
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Post by texas on Aug 14, 2009 12:28:21 GMT -5
After seeing Oti's thread about him getting BW+90 on chinups, I had a thought about records. Anyone want to have a board records thread?
Since this isn't a weightlifting forum, I wouldn't expect squats, dls, and benches to be the main concern (but could be there if people wanted). But what about pullups, weighted pullups, grip stuff, etc. Anyone up for it?
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Post by Oti on Aug 14, 2009 12:55:40 GMT -5
I'd love to see squats from everyone. More people on this forum need to weight lift. I'm not really for this idea. I've thought about it a few times and I just don't think it'll work for some reason.
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texas
Kuramochi Minoru
Posts: 21
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Post by texas on Aug 14, 2009 13:16:14 GMT -5
It wouldn't be that hard to implement. Any time a person wants to claim a record, then video evidence is required. It could even be a PR thread, where everyone can post their PRs, and the 1st post is dedicated to the overall records.
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Post by Oti on Aug 14, 2009 13:18:47 GMT -5
Everyone could just post what they did to train that day. I know it's simple enough.
I just don't think it'll work. Just a feeling.
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Post by bigblind168 on Aug 14, 2009 19:31:32 GMT -5
ehhh i'll go along with it. even tho i dont have video evidence,
i benched 65. and leg pressed 250.
should be fairly easy to beat.
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jag3034
Kuramochi Minoru
Saiyan
Posts: 23
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Post by jag3034 on Aug 14, 2009 20:36:50 GMT -5
Ill put up some recent stats.
Bench 225 for 6 reps
Squat 295 for 8 reps
Deadlift 500 1 rep
Dips BW+90 for 6 reps
Pull-ups (palms facing away) BW+90 for 2 reps
Body Stats Height - 5'10" Weight - 195 BF% - 11-13%
No video proof for now of those, but I have an older youtube video I can post from a year ago or so.
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Post by davidcampbell on Aug 17, 2009 5:06:34 GMT -5
These compatisons aren't always very good, for example when I do pull ups I dead hang and try to move my lower body as little as possible so I don't help myself up at all. If you do kiping pull ups where you swing your legs a bit to help you up it's not really and accurate comparison.
Leg press is another one, I always slide the seat all the way forward so my knees are at my ears (slight exaduration) to get the full range of motion, of course if I slide the seat back far I can press about double the normal weight I use. With those Lat pull down machines I've tried a couple different ones and I can do more weight on some than others. With bench presses the starting height of the bar makes a slight difference as does your grip position and of course you can cheat a little and not go all the way to your chest or not extend fully. Same with the pull ups. I've seen pull up videos where the guy will not go all the way up or all the way down just kinda sit there bouncing up and down maybe a foot, throw some leg kipping in there and 50+ pull ups becomes easy.
And then this is a Sasuke thread and I don't know relevant someones max leg or bench press would be.
With the bodyweight plus pull ups it's hard to compare because who's stronger? Is it the guy who weighs 150 and pulls 90lbs because he's lifting well over half his body weight, or is it the guy who weighs 195 and pulls 90lbs because he's lifting 285 and the lighter guy is only lifting 240? And is that narrow grip or wide or what and what part of the world do you live in, because isn't gravity slightly less closer to the polls? ...or is it the other way around? Yeah I think it's the other way around, because if you're on the equater the earth's spin is trying to throw you off.
And of course videos can be faked.
So I guess I'm just saying take it with a grain of salt and don't give it too much creedence.
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texas
Kuramochi Minoru
Posts: 21
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Post by texas on Aug 17, 2009 10:49:29 GMT -5
These compatisons aren't always very good, for example when I do pull ups I dead hang and try to move my lower body as little as possible so I don't help myself up at all. If you do kiping pull ups where you swing your legs a bit to help you up it's not really and accurate comparison.
Leg press is another one, I always slide the seat all the way forward so my knees are at my ears (slight exaduration) to get the full range of motion, of course if I slide the seat back far I can press about double the normal weight I use. With those Lat pull down machines I've tried a couple different ones and I can do more weight on some than others. With bench presses the starting height of the bar makes a slight difference as does your grip position and of course you can cheat a little and not go all the way to your chest or not extend fully. Same with the pull ups. I've seen pull up videos where the guy will not go all the way up or all the way down just kinda sit there bouncing up and down maybe a foot, throw some leg kipping in there and 50+ pull ups becomes easy.
With the pull-ups, if you’re referring to the Konstantin video I posted, then I disagree completely. I would say that even with kipping most of the people here could not match that, or at least not at first try. I’ve tried them, and while I did get more, it wasn’t a good amount more. I’m not a Crossfitter though, so I don’t practice them regularly. Also the fact that he weighs almost literally double what some people weigh here (275lbs) doesn’t lend itself to making it easy.
With the bench press, what does the grip really matter? Ya, you’re to lift less with a narrow grip, but if your goal is to lift the most weight, then who cares? Everyone has a distance between their hands that suits them the best, and it’s your job to find it. If that grip somehow was your hands 2 inches apart, then more power to you, but if it’s the farthest legal distance, that’s ok too. You’d be dumb to self-handicap yourself. And if you don’t go all the way down, then it’s not a legit bench IMO. Too many people bench for ego, so them doing something to increase their ego is no surprise.
With the leg press, like most machines, its not a good indicator of strength. Like you said, there are all kinds of starting positions and they all give you different amounts of mechanical advantage. If the legpress works for you, cool, but lulz @ legpress.
And then this is a Sasuke thread and I don't know relevant someones max leg or bench press would be.
That’s why I said in the original that the powerlifts (squat, bench, and dead) or maybe weightlifting (snatch and c&j) may not be as applicable, but bodyweight and grip stuff might be better. And while they may not be directly applicable, I think people should be strong all over.
With the bodyweight plus pull ups it's hard to compare because who's stronger? Is it the guy who weighs 150 and pulls 90lbs because he's lifting well over half his body weight, or is it the guy who weighs 195 and pulls 90lbs because he's lifting 285 and the lighter guy is only lifting 240? And is that narrow grip or wide or what and what part of the world do you live in, because isn't gravity slightly less closer to the polls? ...or is it the other way around? Yeah I think it's the other way around, because if you're on the equater the earth's spin is trying to throw you off.
That’s why there are weight classes, BW coefficients, Wilks coefficients (for powerlifting), age classes, etc.
And of course videos can be faked.
This isn’t a thread for people claiming world records. If someone is pathetic enough to try and fake a video for a board as small as this (no offense to the board owners), then let them have it. A meaningless record obviously means more to them than other people.
So I guess I'm just saying take it with a grain of salt and don't give it too much creedence.
I don’t think anyone is taking this too seriously, its all meant as fun.
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Post by Oti on Aug 17, 2009 14:18:14 GMT -5
I feel like I've influenced you. Strength is the ability to exert force using muscles, so whoever lifts the most is the strongest. Although I have more relative strength, the heavy man whose total lifted weight is greater than mine is stronger than me. Everything. It determines if you're going to be able to handle lower weight, like a body builder, or massive weight, like a power lifter. Honestly, the body builder way of lifting is the way to go. That way hits the chest and that's what the bench press is for.
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jag3034
Kuramochi Minoru
Saiyan
Posts: 23
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Post by jag3034 on Aug 17, 2009 14:27:10 GMT -5
I agree with Davids post, but really I see it as all in good fun. Your last bit made me laugh. No reason to get worked up over whether someone is lieing about their stats or what kind of form they are using. I think the OP is just trying to make discussion since this isnt an extremely active board. On a lighter note I squated 315 for 7 yesterday ( Yes below parrallel) Also on all of my lifts they are all full range of motion with strict form. No reason to do them if you are not doing them right.
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texas
Kuramochi Minoru
Posts: 21
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Post by texas on Aug 17, 2009 14:41:37 GMT -5
I guess I worded that awkwardly. I know that the position of your grip makes a difference. There's a reason there's a max legal width in powerlifting. I was more trying to say that if someone has a grip 1" from max legal distance, and the other at legal distance, that probably won't make a huge difference as the one with a narrower grip probably has it their for a reason. he's stronger there. And I definitely disagree about how to bench. Elbows flared out is not a very smart way to bench. It increases the likelihood that you'll get a pec tear. Tuck your elbows in. Thats not saying that bencing like a powerlifter won't get you hurt. Look at Dave Tate. Edit: And I don't really care if they do. If it makes them feel better, go for it. I just think its a waste of time. Seen people do it a lot, and most of the time they got caught and get laughed away.
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Post by davidcampbell on Aug 17, 2009 15:58:41 GMT -5
Texas: I was talking about various random pull up videos I've seen....I don't htink I've seen yours.
I just thought of a record that could be applicable to sasuke: dead hang, how long can you hang on a pull up bar without your feet touching the ground. And there's really no way to cheat with this one unless you just lie.
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texas
Kuramochi Minoru
Posts: 21
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Post by texas on Aug 17, 2009 16:32:16 GMT -5
Texas: I was talking about various random pull up videos I've seen....I don't htink I've seen yours. I just thought of a record that could be applicable to sasuke: dead hang, how long can you hang on a pull up bar without your feet touching the ground. And there's really no way to cheat with this one unless you just lie. Its cool. I didn't take offense. The one I'm referring to is of Konstantin Konstantinovs. He did 55 kipping pullups at a 275lb BW. Out of curiosity, what can you do on a dead hang. I posted a video of myself doing my BW+100lbs for 1:15 before I decided to stop. Was only going for 1 minute originally, so I decided to go a little extra. Was a lot easier than I thought. Want to try 225, but I don't have access to a gym do do it at until next week.
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Post by Oti on Aug 17, 2009 17:16:51 GMT -5
That isn't very useful to Sasuke. Dead hanging doesn't recreate the movements. Pull-ups aren't greatly relevant to Sasuke either, if you think about it. Climbing is easier than doing pull-ups.
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Post by davidcampbell on Aug 17, 2009 23:58:44 GMT -5
being able hang by your arms for long periods of time would be an invaluable skill for stage 3. How mannt times have we seen someone dominnate most of stage3 only to have them get to the end of the pipe slider or gliding ring and then they jusst hang there a** their fingers start slipping untill they fall? If you could dead hang for 5 minutes that wouldn't be an issue.
My dad came up with a saying once that I really liked: "Don't believe everything you think." He was referring to religious nut jobs but I find it applicable to many situtations. I guess why I mention it is because you seem like a religious fanatic sometimes with the way negate the validity of people's training routines in favor of your one true god training method. I don't know what exactly your entire tranining program is, and it may or may not be more orr less effective than anyone else's but 3 can tell you that therre is more than one way to train for sasuke or anything else. And more than one type of physique that can get you to the top of the tower.
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jag3034
Kuramochi Minoru
Saiyan
Posts: 23
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Post by jag3034 on Aug 18, 2009 0:49:36 GMT -5
Agree again with you david. "And more than one type of physique that can get you to the top of the tower. " Look at Jordan Jovtchev although his physique was aquired from gymnastics the dude was a beast and if he did not get screwed over on the final stage with it pouring rain I would say there was a very very good chance he would of won it all.
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Post by Oti on Aug 18, 2009 2:56:35 GMT -5
Not saying anything about my training, just thinking logically. Seriously. Think about this.
You're not moving at all. How will that help you move? The only thing dead hanging will improve is grip endurance. That's fine and all, but what happens when you're too tired to move, yet you can still hang on. You're screwed.
Saying hanging still for long amounts of time is going to help you climb is like saying standing there with weight on your shoulders will help you squat more.
And I don't say anything about Jag's training, do I? Do you know why? I have a feeling he knows what he's doing. A majority of the people training for Sasuke? They have no idea. Yes, there are tons of ways to train, but I like trying to help people train efficiently. Why train for three years when you can accomplish that in one year?
On top of that, who cares what I think? Tune me out. Ignore my posts. You know my avatar. When you see it, skip over that post. I learn, I try to help, I'm unappreciated. I also don't care.
So. Yeah.
I'm tired.
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Post by davidcampbell on Aug 18, 2009 4:13:55 GMT -5
Oh don't get me wrong, you're one of my favorite people to talk to on the forums.....most of the time. And I don't have any reason to tune you out or ignore your posts. I'm just saying, to consider that you might not always be right. I know I've written a few posts lately that seem critical of you so I hope you don't think I don't like you. If I disliked you I probably wouldn't bother.
Anyway, about the dead hangs: I'm not saying do nothing but deadhangs and work your upper body in no other way but deadhanging. I'm just saying they'll help significantly. Of course tons of pull ups on bars, rock climbing holds, and ledges, weight training, rock climbing and of course training on obstacle replicas. And then throw some tabatas in there for the weights, pull ups, and row machine and that would be a pretty good stage 3 training routine.
I actually don't really dead hang myself, but when I'm rock climbing I often have to hold myself up with my arms while I'm trying to figure out how to make the next move and the lactic acid starts building up, it's very draining. It takes a lot of conditioning before you can hold like that and then push your ams to keep going after you've mentally figured out what to do.
If I had to pick only one, of course high intensity has the most benefits, but since I don't have to pick only one I can do low intensity long duration also, because it's not without it's benefits as well. Primary for me being learning how to deal with the slow buildup of lactic acid over a long period of time, learning how to work through the pain, as well as how to detox your muscles with a quick shake out while still hanging.
Oh that remonds me, I had this Karate teacher when I was 12 that would make us hold a kick, leg out for 2-5 minutes at a time...it was HELL, some kids would start crying. The teacher could sit there and hold his leg out forever it seemed like. He was not a big guy, muscular, but very lean, zero bulk, think Bruce Lee but with bigger lats maybe. Anyway, I swear to this day, I've never seen anyone kick a bag as hard as he did! Get hit with that and the fight's over. His logic was that if you can kick the other guy hard enough it won't matter if he blocks it because you'll break his arm, or bruise it so bad he won't be able to block again. And he attributed this power to the slow painful, motion study kicking he would have up do.
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Post by Oti on Aug 18, 2009 4:30:00 GMT -5
I know I'm not always right. That would probably be reeeaaallllllllyyyy annoying. To me as well as you, I mean. About the kicks: I doubt he developed that kind of power with only that method. Isometric training can give amazing results, but it's also got serious drawbacks. Without other training to complement it, you won't be kicking very hard. After all, kicking is a dynamic motion, as is climbing. That's why I don't think a motionless exercise with help significantly.
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Post by davidcampbell on Aug 18, 2009 18:15:18 GMT -5
Ok, I still think it does help, but lets just leave it at that.
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