Would Yamada have cleared in 12 if he got to run later?

[zoran]

On stage 2 in Sasuke 12 we all know of Yamada's glove incident and him getting to run 3 times. On his second run he was made to run immediately after his first, then on his third he got a break and ran after Jotchev and Nagano. If he was given this break after his first run, would he have cleared?

I'd say yes as he only narrowly "timed out" (or was screwed by the buzzer being wonky) on his second run and on his third after he timed out he rapidly cleared the rest of the stage. They really should have let Yamada have a longer break.

[dakohosu]

Jul 3, 2024 14:26:28 GMT -5 zoran said:

On stage 2 in Sasuke 12 we all know of Yamada's glove incident and him getting to run 3 times. On his second run he was made to run immediately after his first, then on his third he got a break and ran after Jotchev and Nagano. If he was given this break after his first run, would he have cleared?

I'd say yes as he only narrowly "timed out" (or was screwed by the buzzer being wonky) on his second run and on his third after he timed out he rapidly cleared the rest of the stage. They really should have let Yamada have a longer break.

I voted yes to answer your question directly, though it would've been a close call. Yamada cleared on his first attempt with 3.5 seconds left, this would've been closer to 1-2 seconds if he'd taken his gloves off and if he'd applied spray would've probably run a high risk of timing out. Though this is assuming he went at the exact same pace, he could've gone faster if the klaxon went off before the second wall, which is why I voted yes. As well as the fact that I'm doubtful that Yamada would've been the only timeout out of 11 attempts.

That said, I'm a firm believer he shouldn't have been given a second run to begin with. He circumvented an (admittedly dumb but still enforced) rule that he knew about as he adhered to it everytime before, and the fact that he mentioned concern over the Spider Walk before his run and then did what he did can't be a coincidence, especially considering Yamada's shaky reputation when it comes to sportsmanship. 

I also rewatched his ZONE run just now and I'm unconvinced he actually pushed the button. There was no conclusive angle from any of the replays but it seemed like because his leg got caught under the last wall he only managed to graze the button and his hand landed to the side rather than on top. That, and I can't suspend my disbelief that it just happened to be a mechanical fault this one time but never in other circumstances. In the translation he was aggressively insistent he pushed the button which is probably why they just granted him that final attempt. 

Needless to say his third run was utterly painful to watch; everyone was telling him to stop when he continued to run after he'd timed out with a sprained ankle, then fell over and was understandably in clear frustration from 3 for 3 failed attempts on Stage 2. I definitely think this was a "too bad to be true" moment that haunted him for the rest of his career especially being the lone fail especially as he'd had numerous troubles on that stage previously. But imo rules are rules so I think what happened was entirely justified.

[zoran]

Jul 3, 2024 15:01:37 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Jul 3, 2024 14:26:28 GMT -5 zoran said:

On stage 2 in Sasuke 12 we all know of Yamada's glove incident and him getting to run 3 times. On his second run he was made to run immediately after his first, then on his third he got a break and ran after Jotchev and Nagano. If he was given this break after his first run, would he have cleared?

I'd say yes as he only narrowly "timed out" (or was screwed by the buzzer being wonky) on his second run and on his third after he timed out he rapidly cleared the rest of the stage. They really should have let Yamada have a longer break.

I voted yes to answer your question directly, though it would've been a close call. Yamada cleared on his first attempt with 3.5 seconds left, this would've been closer to 1-2 seconds if he'd taken his gloves off and if he'd applied spray would've probably run a high risk of timing out. Though this is assuming he went at the exact same pace, he could've gone faster if the klaxon went off before the second wall, which is why I voted yes. As well as the fact that I'm doubtful that Yamada would've been the only timeout out of 11 attempts.

That said, I'm a firm believer he shouldn't have been given a second run to begin with. He circumvented an (admittedly dumb but still enforced) rule that he knew about as he adhered to it everytime before, and the fact that he mentioned concern over the Spider Walk before his run and then did what he did can't be a coincidence, especially considering Yamada's shaky reputation when it comes to sportsmanship. 

I also rewatched his ZONE run just now and I'm unconvinced he actually pushed the button. There was no conclusive angle from any of the replays but it seemed like because his leg got caught under the last wall he only managed to graze the button and his hand landed to the side rather than on top. That, and I can't suspend my disbelief that it just happened to be a mechanical fault this one time but never in other circumstances. In the translation he was aggressively insistent he pushed the button which is probably why they just granted him that final attempt. 

Needless to say his third run was utterly painful to watch; everyone was telling him to stop when he continued to run after he'd timed out with a sprained ankle, then fell over and was understandably in clear frustration from 3 for 3 failed attempts on Stage 2. I definitely think this was a "too bad to be true" moment that haunted him for the rest of his career especially being the lone fail especially as he'd had numerous troubles on that stage previously. But imo rules are rules so I think what happened was entirely justified.

I think he thought the glove rule was just an advisory thing, not an actual requirement, like in Sasuke 9 he wore no gloves on the chain reaction. If anything the gloves would be a hindrance besides the time used to take them off as human skin has a better stick than leather.

[subtleagent]

Assuming he got to rest longer maybe, though I do worry that seeing 10/10 clears would've messed with his head a bit given at that point Yamada was also competing with the other competitors rather than staying in his own lane. But remember he also did barely clear a Stage 1 that honestly wasn't even that tight timewise so it'd definitely be a squeaker. He certainly wouldn't have gotten more than 5 seconds, that much I can promise.

[brz0ny]

Jul 3, 2024 15:01:37 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Jul 3, 2024 14:26:28 GMT -5 zoran said:

On stage 2 in Sasuke 12 we all know of Yamada's glove incident and him getting to run 3 times. On his second run he was made to run immediately after his first, then on his third he got a break and ran after Jotchev and Nagano. If he was given this break after his first run, would he have cleared?

I'd say yes as he only narrowly "timed out" (or was screwed by the buzzer being wonky) on his second run and on his third after he timed out he rapidly cleared the rest of the stage. They really should have let Yamada have a longer break.

I voted yes to answer your question directly, though it would've been a close call. Yamada cleared on his first attempt with 3.5 seconds left, this would've been closer to 1-2 seconds if he'd taken his gloves off and if he'd applied spray would've probably run a high risk of timing out. Though this is assuming he went at the exact same pace, he could've gone faster if the klaxon went off before the second wall, which is why I voted yes. As well as the fact that I'm doubtful that Yamada would've been the only timeout out of 11 attempts.

That said, I'm a firm believer he shouldn't have been given a second run to begin with. He circumvented an (admittedly dumb but still enforced) rule that he knew about as he adhered to it everytime before, and the fact that he mentioned concern over the Spider Walk before his run and then did what he did can't be a coincidence, especially considering Yamada's shaky reputation when it comes to sportsmanship. 

I also rewatched his ZONE run just now and I'm unconvinced he actually pushed the button. There was no conclusive angle from any of the replays but it seemed like because his leg got caught under the last wall he only managed to graze the button and his hand landed to the side rather than on top. That, and I can't suspend my disbelief that it just happened to be a mechanical fault this one time but never in other circumstances. In the translation he was aggressively insistent he pushed the button which is probably why they just granted him that final attempt. 

Needless to say his third run was utterly painful to watch; everyone was telling him to stop when he continued to run after he'd timed out with a sprained ankle, then fell over and was understandably in clear frustration from 3 for 3 failed attempts on Stage 2. I definitely think this was a "too bad to be true" moment that haunted him for the rest of his career especially being the lone fail especially as he'd had numerous troubles on that stage previously. But imo rules are rules so I think what happened was entirely justified.

Completely agree with everything you said. That being said tho, I am wondering about a lot of things to do with his second run. Did the producers actually know if buzzer malfunctioned and if they didn't was the pressure from him running again the reason they let him run again? Did Yamada himself know if the buzzer malfunctioned or did he just think he cleared but he actually didn't (or you know, maybe he just lied)? And most importantly, would they have let him run fourth time if he found something to complain about again?

[dakohosu]

Jul 4, 2024 15:35:03 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Jul 3, 2024 15:01:37 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Completely agree with everything you said. That being said tho, I am wondering about a lot of things to do with his second run. Did the producers actually know if buzzer malfunctioned and if they didn't was the pressure from him running again the reason they let him run again? Did Yamada himself know if the buzzer malfunctioned or did he just think he cleared but he actually didn't (or you know, maybe he just lied)? And most importantly, would they have let him run fourth time if he found something to complain about again?

I watched a subtitled version of his ZONE run and this is what I gathered.

Yamada was insistent he pushed the button, he even screamed this 3-4 times. There was a considerable delay from the jury with repeated things like "no formal ruling" etc. The replay showed that he at least touched the button but there was no angle or fidelity to verify whether he did indeed push it or whether he merely touched the button but didn't press it, and hence no evidence to suggest whether his claim of the "mechanical fault" was indeed the case.

Yamada then admitted that he "touched" the button with his middle finger, the producers told him that merely touching but not pressing it was not acceptable; Yamada then apologised, the producers asked him if he really wanted to he could run again, but the jury were still decided whether he would still be disqualified even if he did clear.

Personally this later dialogue to me at least gives away that he knew he hadn't full on pressed the button given that he apologised, and hence lied to try and work his way into a clear. However the run was still awarded because there was no concrete evidence to verify or refute his claim about the mechanical fault. I can't suspend my disbelief that the button would malfunction this one time out of what, 400+ runs? The only possibility is that they left the gates turned off because they turned them off during his first run when they realised he'd circumvented the gloves rule, but even that is an incredibly unlikely stretch, as Jovtchev and Nagano ran right after him and the button worked fine.

But I presume his insistence and the lack of clarity from the replay angles consolidated them awarding him the re-run. I do wonder had he cleared on his third attempt whether they would've allowed him to proceed because the translations implied that throughout this whole process the notion of him still being disqualified regardless was on the cards. I assume if he'd cleared on his third attempt but then they later verified that he didn't push the button on his second, this would've nullified his third attempt under the pretense that he failed fair and square on his second, resulting in disqualification.