Keitaro in Final Stage

[brz0ny]

I dont think this has been asked earlier. How well do you think Keitaro would have done in Final Stage if they didnt get rid of the stoppers?

[dakohosu]

He isn’t a speed climber, I’m fairly sure he only does bouldering, so there’s that to bear in mind, but he will inevitably have an advantage regardless because of some carry over in terms of technique and grip etc.

I’d say unless he makes an error that ruins his rhythm completely he could maybe get about halfway up the Tsuna Nobori or something. Imo second place if he had reached the Final in 40. My biggest concern is that even Yoshiyuki, who’s insanely explosive on Salmon Ladders, still struggled on the Jugo Dan, so Keitaro might suffer the same fate even if he too is generally quite fast on the obstacle. Those extra 3 inches compared to the Stage 2 variant clearly have a profound effect on difficulty. That said, unlike Keitaro, Yoshiyuki has only started climbing recently, so I figured the reason he struggled was because he was sapped from the rock wall. Keitaro obviously being a much more experienced climber won’t have (as much of) that issue. I’d imagine he’d be able to get through it more quickly and/or using up less of his strength due to his advantage in technique/experience.

That said, knowing him, he could just mentally choke the minute the bar ends up crooked or something. Hopefully not, but you can’t count anything out.

[brz0ny]

Jan 24, 2023 6:54:00 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

He isn’t a speed climber, I’m fairly sure he only does bouldering, so there’s that to bear in mind, but he will inevitably have an advantage regardless because of some carry over in terms of technique and grip etc.

I’d say unless he makes an error that ruins his rhythm completely he could maybe get about halfway up the Tsuna Nobori or something. Imo second place if he had reached the Final in 40. My biggest concern is that even Yoshiyuki, who’s insanely explosive on Salmon Ladders, still struggled on the Jugo Dan, so Keitaro might suffer the same fate even if he too is generally quite fast on the obstacle. Those extra 3 inches compared to the Stage 2 variant clearly have a profound effect on difficulty. That said, unlike Keitaro, Yoshiyuki has only started climbing recently, so I figured the reason he struggled was because he was sapped from the rock wall. Keitaro obviously being a much more experienced climber won’t have (as much of) that issue. I’d imagine he’d be able to get through it more quickly and/or using up less of his strength due to his advantage in technique/experience.

That said, knowing him, he could just mentally choke the minute the bar ends up crooked or something. Hopefully not, but you can’t count anything out.

Maybe the problem with Yoshiyuki is that he is too explosive at Salmon Ladder. Same way youre not supposed to run as fast as possible on Tsuna Nobori as you will run out of gas very fast. Same thing probably applies to Jugo Dan. If you see how Yusuke clears it, it takes him approximately same time to clear first and fourteenth rung, while Yoshiyuki completely gassed out at like tenth rung.

[dakohosu]

Jan 24, 2023 8:59:00 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Jan 24, 2023 6:54:00 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

He isn’t a speed climber, I’m fairly sure he only does bouldering, so there’s that to bear in mind, but he will inevitably have an advantage regardless because of some carry over in terms of technique and grip etc.

I’d say unless he makes an error that ruins his rhythm completely he could maybe get about halfway up the Tsuna Nobori or something. Imo second place if he had reached the Final in 40. My biggest concern is that even Yoshiyuki, who’s insanely explosive on Salmon Ladders, still struggled on the Jugo Dan, so Keitaro might suffer the same fate even if he too is generally quite fast on the obstacle. Those extra 3 inches compared to the Stage 2 variant clearly have a profound effect on difficulty. That said, unlike Keitaro, Yoshiyuki has only started climbing recently, so I figured the reason he struggled was because he was sapped from the rock wall. Keitaro obviously being a much more experienced climber won’t have (as much of) that issue. I’d imagine he’d be able to get through it more quickly and/or using up less of his strength due to his advantage in technique/experience.

That said, knowing him, he could just mentally choke the minute the bar ends up crooked or something. Hopefully not, but you can’t count anything out.

Maybe the problem with Yoshiyuki is that he is too explosive at Salmon Ladder. Same way youre not supposed to run as fast as possible on Tsuna Nobori as you will run out of gas very fast. Same thing probably applies to Jugo Dan. If you see how Yusuke clears it, it takes him approximately same time to clear first and fourteenth rung, while Yoshiyuki completely gassed out at like tenth rung.

You have to be explosive though. Firstly because of the time limit, secondly because Salmon Ladder transitions in and of themselves require explosivity, and thirdly the longer you hang and delay each transition the faster your strength will run out. That’s why most people who can do 50+ pull-ups go very fast, because the faster you go the less energy expended per pull-up or per transition.

It only becomes an issue when someone’s going so fast that it becomes reckless and they keep missing transitions, which both screws with their rhythm and saps more of their strength trying to correct said error, kind of like Rene in 37 and Tada in both his attempts. Yoshiyuki likely just wasn’t prepared for the knock on effect the rock wall had on his upper body strength which was why he slowed down towards the end. Granted he did miss a transition but I felt like that was more due to him running out of explosive power rather than an actual mistake. If he had been less explosive then he probably would’ve done even worse, likely doing a Tada and getting stuck somewhere halfway due to lack of remaining stamina. Either way, it’s pretty clear on this Final that pausing before Salmon Ladder transitions is pretty much not an option lol.

[hoseasasuke]

He would have timed out 20m up imo.

[subtleagent]

I think he would've had a better run at the Jugo Dan than Tada or Yoshi though I don't think he would've quite went as fast as Morimoto. Besides if it took Morimoto three attempts to beat 32 ~ 38's Final I don't think Keitaro would've done a harder version in one shot given his tendency to as said mentally choke. So I'd say around 20m like hoseasasuke said, but I definitely think he'd at least beat the Jugo Dan.