Nagano's reaction to Kaiou

[zoran]

I'm not going to believe a story from someone I don't know from a discord server I don't know of. There are plenty reasons why someone might lie about this. To stir drama, get attention, dislike for Nagano etc, I've seen tons of made up stories on discord and reddit, often were the liar puts massive effort into making you believe it's legitimate. I'll take this story seriously if there are other witness accounts of this incident, if Hioki or Morimoto tell their account, etc. People accusing Nagano and Asami of being abusive parents based solely on this thread, are completely out of line.

[subtleagent]

The only thing confirmed really is Nagano saying the attempt was bad even for a first time. The rest is up in the air and to the OP just to clarify I'm not mad and not trying to throw shade but again do be careful where you get your info. Reddit I know for a fact cannot be trusted and Discord is 50/50 at best.

[PsychoDelusion]

This sounds like alot of "he said she said" kind of story which not only I don't trust but I also dislike alot. It has happened a bit in the past with way more credible sources so I refuse to believe anything that hasn't come directly out of a competitor's mouth or the broadcast itself.

Then again, Nagano did seem genuinely upset when Kaiou failed but it's completely understandable. Both of them were practicing for months leading up to that moment. This tournament and in general every tournament is supposed to be the fruits of a competitor's labour so for Kaiou to fail the first obstacle is definitely something they never had in mind. Keep in mind that anything that gets said during the heat of the moment should never be taken to heart and it's something people who have done sports are aware of. There are thousands of competitors that apply for the show and way more than that who wish they'd stand in that starting line. Kaiou got his chance because of his father while there are so many competitors like Washimi etc who've been applying for the better part of a decade with no success. I think that's something both Nagano and his family had in mind when they were preparing for that effort. You have people like Kasuga and Torisawa who, while they are entertaining to watch (i guess?), they are wasting spots that could have gone to people who live and breathe for this show so in the end I can't blame Nagano for being angry initially. In the end everyone seemed alright and who knows? Maybe Kaiou will return successfully and this will be a great story to tell when all is said and done. In general though, I feel like most replies in this thread are overreacting.

[m4tt3r0x]

It rubs me the wrong way he'd be like that to his son after having a very understandable fail on a notoriously trick obstacle, but I can't holistically judge based off of a few quotes taken out of a text box on the internet.

If true it sounds to me like Nagano has a strict temperament with his sons and might be a harsh coach. This is the same guy who called his fellow All Stars idiots when they would fail on the course lol. That said Nagano is clearly also someone of good character. He's always cheered on his friends, attributed his passion to them after his Kanzen, and was even the mediator between Akiyama and Yamada for a while so I've heard.

I'm not saying this is the case, but after the fail Nagano might have felt a little embarrassed or indebted to the staff for letting his son come on the show, taking a hard to come by spot, simply because of who his father is. Nagano may have felt his son wasn't ready for the limelight and he shouldn't be on the course yet. Of course I'm assuming he did not say to his son he shouldn't compete again (for now) on camera. That would be very inappropriate. It shouldn't have been said in front of anyone except maybe some producers in general though imo, but it also can depend on how it was said.

I think he could have said things much more diplomatically for sure. In fact I don't understand why he'd not acknowledge the fact his son failed an obstacle pretty much everyone is extremely cautious over because it's that tricky. That to me is wrong even if Nagano's just a typical old guardish no participation trophy type, or a strict Japanese 50 year old dad.

Personally I'd be more inclined to be more comforting to Kaiou like Hioki or Yusuke were, but at least to Nagano's credit he did this all out in the open, which kind of tells me he's just a matter or fact person and what you see is what you get, and that it's possibly less likely it's as bad as people are making it out to be. That's what I'm assuming at first. The camera men and everyone were still laughing with Nagano.

[brz0ny]

Jan 19, 2023 9:19:36 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Jan 19, 2023 3:55:01 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Yeah, dont believe everything on the internet. You have no reason to believe something is true just because a person who was at taping said it. Besides, how can you know he is the one who took those merch pictures?

Another thing, people say how even Yamada wouldnt do that. It is a bit different when its your child and when youre mentoring a grown man.

Surely you’d be even tougher on someone who isn’t your own child and is old enough to actually take criticism. Children, especially teenagers, don’t take stuff as well as adults do, they tend to get way more upset or hurt by these sorts of things.

Just because Kaiou’s Nagano’s kid doesn’t mean he’s obliged to uphold Nagano’s reputation more so than the Black Tigers are Yamada’s, especially as in the latter case that’s sort of his defined thing now. Especially as, I’ll say this again, the kid is like 13 so whether he’s the son of a former champion (especially one from 16 years ago) doesn’t warrant the amount of pressure and negative reception placed on him by anyone, let alone his own family.

Yeah youre right, I think I worded it wrongly.

What I was trying to say is that we cant say Yamada would mentor his son and Yoshiyuki the same way, even if they were the same age.

It is also important to note how Nagano seemed quite calm after his sons fail, if anything it was Kaiou who looked more unsettled by it. I mean its quite a sociopathic behaviour to go from laughing off his fail to being angry at his son in front of everybody. At first when I read this I thought it was possible, but the more I look at it, and especially after I saw the source, I refuse to believe this happened.

[dakohosu]

Jan 19, 2023 14:58:53 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Jan 19, 2023 9:19:36 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Yeah youre right, I think I worded it wrongly.

What I was trying to say is that we cant say Yamada would mentor his son and Yoshiyuki the same way, even if they were the same age.

It is also important to note how Nagano seemed quite calm after his sons fail, if anything it was Kaiou who looked more unsettled by it. I mean its quite a sociopathic behaviour to go from laughing off his fail to being angry at his son in front of everybody. At first when I read this I thought it was possible, but the more I look at it, and especially after I saw the source, I refuse to believe this happened.

Yeah fair, to be honest given that Yamada has children who I think are in their 20s now I'm actually surprised he hasn't indoctrinated them into the Black Tigers against their own will, that 100% seems like something he would do. 

Hmmm yeah something isn't adding up here; I don't imagine someone would flat out lie about something like this, especially if they verified that they were present at taping, like what would be the benefit of doing that? But an exaggeration is entirely possible. Besides, if you were in the audience, how much of the exact words from competitors on the frontline would you even be able to hear, especially as it was off camera so they weren't talking into a microphone? They may have seen something that looked like a scolding but didn't actually hear the words being spoken. 

The only thing that's (sort of) confirmed true is that Nagano did say that his fail was unacceptable; I watched a subtitled version of Sasuke 40 and knowing a bit of Japanese the translations I knew did seem 100% accurate, and the translation of Nagano's reaction came to that. Asami also told Kaiou's brother not to laugh when he failed (to be fair the kid was like 8 so don't blame him lol). Then in the post-run interview with both of them, Nagano said "sorry, it's his first run" with a smile on his face. What happened after that we obviously don't know, at worst I would imagine Nagano may have had a go at him off camera or something, but what's been rumored seems like a bit of a far-fetch even if I did initially semi-believe it. 

I think the main surprise to me isn't the fact that Nagano was supposedly a harsh mentor, it was more the fact that I was surprised he cared enough in the first place to get that angry or even say what he was confirmed to have said. Nagano always struck me as having mentally checked out for years, at least in terms of competing seriously, so I would've imagined he trained his son in the same light, for the purpose of having fun not following in his father's footsteps. But clearly that isn't the case, whether what's been rumoured is true or not.

[brz0ny]

Jan 19, 2023 15:49:22 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Jan 19, 2023 14:58:53 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Yeah youre right, I think I worded it wrongly.

What I was trying to say is that we cant say Yamada would mentor his son and Yoshiyuki the same way, even if they were the same age.

It is also important to note how Nagano seemed quite calm after his sons fail, if anything it was Kaiou who looked more unsettled by it. I mean its quite a sociopathic behaviour to go from laughing off his fail to being angry at his son in front of everybody. At first when I read this I thought it was possible, but the more I look at it, and especially after I saw the source, I refuse to believe this happened.

Yeah fair, to be honest given that Yamada has children who I think are in their 20s now I'm actually surprised he hasn't indoctrinated them into the Black Tigers against their own will, that 100% seems like something he would do. 

Hmmm yeah something isn't adding up here; I don't imagine someone would flat out lie about something like this, especially if they verified that they were present at taping, like what would be the benefit of doing that? But an exaggeration is entirely possible. Besides, if you were in the audience, how much of the exact words from competitors on the frontline would you even be able to hear, especially as it was off camera so they weren't talking into a microphone? They may have seen something that looked like a scolding but didn't actually hear the words being spoken. 

The only thing that's (sort of) confirmed true is that Nagano did say that his fail was unacceptable; I watched a subtitled version of Sasuke 40 and knowing a bit of Japanese the translations I knew did seem 100% accurate, and the translation of Nagano's reaction came to that. Asami also told Kaiou's brother not to laugh when he failed (to be fair the kid was like 8 so don't blame him lol). Then in the post-run interview with both of them, Nagano said "sorry, it's his first run" with a smile on his face. What happened after that we obviously don't know, at worst I would imagine Nagano may have had a go at him off camera or something, but what's been rumored seems like a bit of a far-fetch even if I did initially semi-believe it. 

I think the main surprise to me isn't the fact that Nagano was supposedly a harsh mentor, it was more the fact that I was surprised he cared enough in the first place to get that angry or even say what he was confirmed to have said. Nagano always struck me as having mentally checked out for years, at least in terms of competing seriously, so I would've imagined he trained his son in the same light, for the purpose of having fun not following in his father's footsteps. But clearly that isn't the case, whether what's been rumoured is true or not.

I just know how some people will lie easily purely to make things interesting, so I would take everything with grain of salt, especially since nothing we saw in actual recording implied to something like that happening.

[subtleagent]

Jan 19, 2023 12:40:27 GMT -5 PsychoDelusion said:

This sounds like alot of "he said she said" kind of story which not only I don't trust but I also dislike alot. It has happened a bit in the past with way more credible sources so I refuse to believe anything that hasn't come directly out of a competitor's mouth or the broadcast itself.

Then again, Nagano did seem genuinely upset when Kaiou failed but it's completely understandable. Both of them were practicing for months leading up to that moment. This tournament and in general every tournament is supposed to be the fruits of a competitor's labour so for Kaiou to fail the first obstacle is definitely something they never had in mind. Keep in mind that anything that gets said during the heat of the moment should never be taken to heart and it's something people who have done sports are aware of. There are thousands of competitors that apply for the show and way more than that who wish they'd stand in that starting line. Kaiou got his chance because of his father while there are so many competitors like Washimi etc who've been applying for the better part of a decade with no success. I think that's something both Nagano and his family had in mind when they were preparing for that effort. You have people like Kasuga and Torisawa who, while they are entertaining to watch (i guess?), they are wasting spots that could have gone to people who live and breathe for this show so in the end I can't blame Nagano for being angry initially. In the end everyone seemed alright and who knows? Maybe Kaiou will return successfully and this will be a great story to tell when all is said and done. In general though, I feel like most replies in this thread are overreacting.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. Pics or it didn't happen really. I figured Nagano would make up with Kaiou so even if he did say any of what was claimed he probably would have told him he was sorry and realized he went too far.

I do hope Kaiou returns and still has the drive to compete. He seems like he can do it he just needs to improve mentally but like it was said he's 13 and many teens grew up to be elite competitors. Keitaro, Tada, Jun, Ryo, Shunsuke, and of course Yusuke to name a few.

[exactaabdillah]

Hmm, when I watched the broadcast, I think I only grasped that Nagano said it is bad to fail early on and not produce at least good results because he was worried that his son might not be invited anymore to SASUKE anymore if that happened (and it does happen), so I understand him being quite upset since his son was also really excited on competing in SASUKE and he might not have the chance to do so after that Rolling Hill exit.

That is my interpretation of what's being broadcasted though, don't know about behind the scenes stuff.

[exactaabdillah]

Well, that's the retelling of what's happening. He confirmed that he was super angry and said "You ain't competing anymore after this!", which was probably in a joking way but still have the mix of that disappointed dad in the spur of a moment. I won't read too much into it since I don't know much about their family dynamics, and one scene doesn't capture the whole picture, but I've seen them playfully roasting each other before. so there's that.

Nagano also confirmed that he sprained his ankle? When landing from the Curtain Slider so that's why he looked super gassed later on (he also said that he probably won't clear anyway if his ankle didn't get sprained lol because he's out of breath, but still think that he ,maybe had a chance if he's fully fit.)

He later said, if possible, he's considering to compete again with Kaiou next tournament (sign of him enjoying SASUKE again, maybe). Honestly as a fan, I don't mind seeing him compete again with Kaiou, heck, even if he returned to compete regularly again, to hell with the retirement lol, as long as he enjoyed his time there with family and friends.  

As Yamada said: "If you still want to compete, just do it, don't be reserved."

[subtleagent]

Yeah I figured as much, just goes to show even the great Nagano is not perfect in the end. And yeah I said that before, roasting is a thing in this family.

IDK if anyone remembers this video but skip to 40 seconds. LOL

[transgenderserena]

Jan 19, 2023 15:49:22 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Jan 19, 2023 14:58:53 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Yeah youre right, I think I worded it wrongly.

What I was trying to say is that we cant say Yamada would mentor his son and Yoshiyuki the same way, even if they were the same age.

It is also important to note how Nagano seemed quite calm after his sons fail, if anything it was Kaiou who looked more unsettled by it. I mean its quite a sociopathic behaviour to go from laughing off his fail to being angry at his son in front of everybody. At first when I read this I thought it was possible, but the more I look at it, and especially after I saw the source, I refuse to believe this happened.

Yeah fair, to be honest given that Yamada has children who I think are in their 20s now I'm actually surprised he hasn't indoctrinated them into the Black Tigers against their own will, that 100% seems like something he would do. 

Hmmm yeah something isn't adding up here; I don't imagine someone would flat out lie about something like this, especially if they verified that they were present at taping, like what would be the benefit of doing that? But an exaggeration is entirely possible. Besides, if you were in the audience, how much of the exact words from competitors on the frontline would you even be able to hear, especially as it was off camera so they weren't talking into a microphone? They may have seen something that looked like a scolding but didn't actually hear the words being spoken. 

The only thing that's (sort of) confirmed true is that Nagano did say that his fail was unacceptable; I watched a subtitled version of Sasuke 40 and knowing a bit of Japanese the translations I knew did seem 100% accurate, and the translation of Nagano's reaction came to that. Asami also told Kaiou's brother not to laugh when he failed (to be fair the kid was like 8 so don't blame him lol). Then in the post-run interview with both of them, Nagano said "sorry, it's his first run" with a smile on his face. What happened after that we obviously don't know, at worst I would imagine Nagano may have had a go at him off camera or something, but what's been rumored seems like a bit of a far-fetch even if I did initially semi-believe it. 

I think the main surprise to me isn't the fact that Nagano was supposedly a harsh mentor, it was more the fact that I was surprised he cared enough in the first place to get that angry or even say what he was confirmed to have said. Nagano always struck me as having mentally checked out for years, at least in terms of competing seriously, so I would've imagined he trained his son in the same light, for the purpose of having fun not following in his father's footsteps. But clearly that isn't the case, whether what's been rumoured is true or not.

Why does everyone on this forum have such a dislike for Yamada, hed never do that 
Also, Nagano ACTUALLY told Kaiou that his fail was unacceptable? Damn

[ahzoo]

I hereby would like to sincerely and deeply apologise to Nagano Makoto and Nagano Ayumi for my earlier outburtsts, and I fully and completely understand the way that being disappointed and emotional leads you to say things that are guided more by this emotion than your true thoughts and attitudes, and I'm more than happy to see that both Makoto and Kaiou have moved on and are still willing to compete going forwards [heck, some might say that I understand it better than most anyone else in the world rn lol].

I wish them both the best of luck and the best of fun as they chase their joint ambitions.

Also, get well soon Nagano; ankle injuries are horrible, though I'm amazed that he could still put in the run that he did after he suffered it.

Man's truly a machine, and the hero he always was.

[YourResidentKojiFan]

Jan 20, 2023 12:24:27 GMT -5 transgenderserena said:

Jan 19, 2023 15:49:22 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Yeah fair, to be honest given that Yamada has children who I think are in their 20s now I'm actually surprised he hasn't indoctrinated them into the Black Tigers against their own will, that 100% seems like something he would do. 

Hmmm yeah something isn't adding up here; I don't imagine someone would flat out lie about something like this, especially if they verified that they were present at taping, like what would be the benefit of doing that? But an exaggeration is entirely possible. Besides, if you were in the audience, how much of the exact words from competitors on the frontline would you even be able to hear, especially as it was off camera so they weren't talking into a microphone? They may have seen something that looked like a scolding but didn't actually hear the words being spoken. 

The only thing that's (sort of) confirmed true is that Nagano did say that his fail was unacceptable; I watched a subtitled version of Sasuke 40 and knowing a bit of Japanese the translations I knew did seem 100% accurate, and the translation of Nagano's reaction came to that. Asami also told Kaiou's brother not to laugh when he failed (to be fair the kid was like 8 so don't blame him lol). Then in the post-run interview with both of them, Nagano said "sorry, it's his first run" with a smile on his face. What happened after that we obviously don't know, at worst I would imagine Nagano may have had a go at him off camera or something, but what's been rumored seems like a bit of a far-fetch even if I did initially semi-believe it. 

I think the main surprise to me isn't the fact that Nagano was supposedly a harsh mentor, it was more the fact that I was surprised he cared enough in the first place to get that angry or even say what he was confirmed to have said. Nagano always struck me as having mentally checked out for years, at least in terms of competing seriously, so I would've imagined he trained his son in the same light, for the purpose of having fun not following in his father's footsteps. But clearly that isn't the case, whether what's been rumoured is true or not.

Why does everyone on this forum have such a dislike for Yamada, hed never do that 
Also, Nagano ACTUALLY told Kaiou that his fail was unacceptable? Damn

Yamada's obsession for SASUKE goes beyond anything I and most likely everyone else here have ever seen from anyone on any ninja show. Just to name a few of his antics, he used his wife's money to build a Warped Wall, he (allegedly) was seen training for SASUKE while he was working at his job and was thus fired, he's retired and unretired about 800 times, and while this isn't directly SASUKE related, he was (and maybe still is given his reaction to failing in 40) a very poor sport. There's his DQ that occurred in 12, where he said he wasn't aware that you had to take off the gloves provided for the Chain Reaction before the Spider Walk, (spoiler alert, he was) and there's even more to that story that I won't get into here. He also put tape on his shoes during SASUKE 9 to help stick to the Spider Walk, which should probably be an immediate DQ, (think of NFL receivers putting glue on their hands, same type of thing) and a few other things that again, I won't get into. So while I can't speak for everyone, the main reason I and probably a few others don't like him is because he's quite simply a maniac about SASUKE (get it?) and let it completely take over his personal life to the point where he shunned his family.

[dakohosu]

Jan 20, 2023 12:24:27 GMT -5 transgenderserena said:

Jan 19, 2023 15:49:22 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Why does everyone on this forum have such a dislike for Yamada, hed never do that 
Also, Nagano ACTUALLY told Kaiou that his fail was unacceptable? Damn

I don't dislike Yamada, at least not anymore, the only competitors I actively dislike are Drew and Obata for obvious reasons.

But you can't deny that Yamada having delusional and unrealistic expectations of himself back in the day could have easily translated into his role as a coach or mentor. I'm glad it hasn't and it seemed as though he was only hard on himself and much more motivating towards his proteges. But 15 years ago when he was still in his 'Sasuke or nothing' phase I could've easily seen him being a much tougher and more brutal coach, most likely to his detriment, as his relentless training regime destroyed him mentally which resulted in his downward spiral of Stage 1 failures. I could've definitely seen him getting unnecessarily angry at them failing and hence instilling performance anxiety in his proteges, just in the same way he did for himself. That said, he did say in his pre-29 interview (when the Black Tigers first competed), that he was expecting them all to fail Stage 1, so I'm glad his expectations were at least somewhat realistic, but again I feel like this was only because his own string of failures humbled him. 

He was also known to have very poor sportsmanship. He claimed Akiyama cheated on Quick Muscle just so he could win, tried to lie his way out of a Stage 2 fail in Sasuke 12 TWICE*, and allegedly claimed that the shoes Yuuji used to achieve his Kanzen in 24 were 'illegal'. Out of all the All-Stars, when one of them did well, he always seemed to be the least enthusiastic out of all of his comrades, almost as though he cared only about his own reputation and performance, and not about the camaraderie or community spirit that's so important to the sport. He was generally a very selfish person, either that or he was so self-obsessive that his actions appeared selfish. Giving up his career and sidelining his family for what is fundamentally a game show made it incredibly difficult to root for him, and if anything said sacrifices were probably accounted for a lot of said mental pressure as he felt he had to win because of how much he'd put on the line and the fact he didn't want it to all be for nothing. YourResidentKojiFan summed up a few other examples of the borderline mental s*** he did, he was definitely a Sasuke madman, and not in a good way, even if it did grant him a lot of popularity as 'Mr SASUKE' during his hay day.

I definitely wasn't a fan of Yamada when I first got into Sasuke in 2010 as he was still in that same phase despite being like 45 and 10+ Stage 1 failures deep which made his continued persistence to try and win all the more baffling. I definitely prefer him as the Black Tiger coach and I think he's enjoying his alternative role a lot more, focussing his energy on training the next generation rather than digging himself further into an unrecoverable hole both in terms of his mental state and performances. I still think he's a bit self obsessed, he tends to hog the camera a lot during interviews with Yoshiyuki, but it's certainly nothing compared to his terrible attitude 15-20 years ago.

Having said that, I was completely caught off guard by how he reacted to his fail in 40. It seemed like a complete regression in his character development, especially as even back in the Golden Era, he'd never get angry, rather he'd just cry in a corner. Granted, I still laugh everytime I rewatch the 'SHAAAAAAA', because I don't know what he was expecting (maybe Shingo's clear instilled some false confidence in him, idk), but on a serious note it was definitely a bit concerning to say the least. 

*The fact that he'd taken his gloves off in every prior attempt on the Spider Walk, and the fact that he said he was nervous about the obstacle in that very tournament, implied to me that he knew he wasn't supposed to keep his gloves on but tried to slip under the radar unsuccessfully (I don't get why though, as in almost all cases Spider Walk fails occur because someone's leg slips, not their hands). Then in his second run, he timed out by missing the buzzer, but then claimed he had indeed hit it but it didn't work. I have no idea why they granted him a third attempt given that it would've been pretty easy to see on the replay or another camera angle whether he'd made contact with it or not.

[ahzoo]

Jan 20, 2023 12:24:27 GMT -5 transgenderserena said:

Why does everyone on this forum have such a dislike for Yamada, hed never do that 
Also, Nagano ACTUALLY told Kaiou that his fail was unacceptable? Damn

I can only really speak for myself [and I am probably one of the people here with stronger opinions on this topic than most], but, simply put, I very much don't[/b] hate Yamada, so much as I regard him as a tragic and pitable character who nonetheless had crossed a lot of lines within his professional career that make it very hard for me to endorse him in the way that I could, say, Takeda, Shingo, or [given that it is clear that he regrets this horrible incident and has since made up with Kaiou] Nagano.

He was known to blatantly and bald-facedly cheat; willingly set his personal and professional lives alight in pursuit of the mythical goal of a Kanzen, and has unresolved and extremely deep-seated issues with this goal that still last to this day [as much as the KuroTora have helped to serve as a living crutch for him in this regard], and only sabotaged his own chances of achieving his very same dream precisely because he didn't see Sasuke as merely a fun part of his life as opposed to its defining trait.

And for what?

At a certain point, you start to end up wishing that while by no means should he have never competed, that he could never have developed this obsession, even if it meant that the shadow he ended up casting on the show was a bit more shallow for it.

He, and his family deserved better.

At least, that's the way that I see it.

[sasukewarrior333]

I'm alot happier upon learning more about the incident. I apologise if this topic caused anyone distress, but I'm glad we've come to a more uplifting conclusion than when we started.

For the record, I'm very sorry if this topic caused anybody distress.

[transgenderserena]

Jan 20, 2023 12:47:00 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Jan 20, 2023 12:24:27 GMT -5 transgenderserena said:

Why does everyone on this forum have such a dislike for Yamada, hed never do that 
Also, Nagano ACTUALLY told Kaiou that his fail was unacceptable? Damn

I don't dislike Yamada, at least not anymore, the only competitors I actively dislike are Drew and Obata for obvious reasons.

But you can't deny that Yamada having delusional and unrealistic expectations of himself back in the day could have easily translated into his role as a coach or mentor. I'm glad it hasn't and it seemed as though he was only hard on himself and much more motivating towards his proteges. But 15 years ago when he was still in his 'Sasuke or nothing' phase I could've easily seen him being a much tougher and more brutal coach, most likely to his detriment, as his relentless training regime destroyed him mentally which resulted in his downward spiral of Stage 1 failures. I could've definitely seen him getting unnecessarily angry at them failing and hence instilling performance anxiety in his proteges, just in the same way he did for himself. That said, he did say in his pre-29 interview (when the Black Tigers first competed), that he was expecting them all to fail Stage 1, so I'm glad his expectations were at least somewhat realistic, but again I feel like this was only because his own string of failures humbled him. 

He was also known to have very poor sportsmanship. He claimed Akiyama cheated on Quick Muscle just so he could win, tried to lie his way out of a Stage 2 fail in Sasuke 12 TWICE*, and allegedly claimed that the shoes Yuuji used to achieve his Kanzen in 24 were 'illegal'. Out of all the All-Stars, when one of them did well, he always seemed to be the least enthusiastic out of all of his comrades, almost as though he cared only about his own reputation and performance, and not about the camaraderie or community spirit that's so important to the sport. He was generally a very selfish person, either that or he was so self-obsessive that his actions appeared selfish. Giving up his career and sidelining his family for what is fundamentally a game show made it incredibly difficult to root for him, and if anything said sacrifices were probably accounted for a lot of said mental pressure as he felt he had to win because of how much he'd put on the line and the fact he didn't want it to all be for nothing. YourResidentKojiFan summed up a few other examples of the borderline mental s*** he did, he was definitely a Sasuke madman, and not in a good way, even if it did grant him a lot of popularity as 'Mr SASUKE' during his hay day.

I definitely wasn't a fan of Yamada when I first got into Sasuke in 2010 as he was still in that same phase despite being like 45 and 10+ Stage 1 failures deep which made his continued persistence to try and win all the more baffling. I definitely prefer him as the Black Tiger coach and I think he's enjoying his alternative role a lot more, focussing his energy on training the next generation rather than digging himself further into an unrecoverable hole both in terms of his mental state and performances. I still think he's a bit self obsessed, he tends to hog the camera a lot during interviews with Yoshiyuki, but it's certainly nothing compared to his terrible attitude 15-20 years ago.

Having said that, I was completely caught off guard by how he reacted to his fail in 40. It seemed like a complete regression in his character development, especially as even back in the Golden Era, he'd never get angry, rather he'd just cry in a corner. Granted, I still laugh everytime I rewatch the 'SHAAAAAAA', because I don't know what he was expecting (maybe Shingo's clear instilled some false confidence in him, idk), but on a serious note it was definitely a bit concerning to say the least. 

*The fact that he'd taken his gloves off in every prior attempt on the Spider Walk, and the fact that he said he was nervous about the obstacle in that very tournament, implied to me that he knew he wasn't supposed to keep his gloves on but tried to slip under the radar unsuccessfully (I don't get why though, as in almost all cases Spider Walk fails occur because someone's leg slips, not their hands). Then in his second run, he timed out by missing the buzzer, but then claimed he had indeed hit it but it didn't work. I have no idea why they granted him a third attempt given that it would've been pretty easy to see on the replay or another camera angle whether he'd made contact with it or not.

I thought his SASUKE 40 fail was sad, he was doing so well and seeing him cry reminded me of his SASUKE 10 interview
But then again, i do have huge Yamada bias as hes my 2nd favourite All-Star behind Nagano and the tournaments i grew up watching the pre shin sasuke tournaments and sasuke rising

[azn]

Jan 20, 2023 13:39:34 GMT -5 transgenderserena said:

Ngl, it's really refreshing to actually see a self proclaimed Yamada Katsumi supporter on SMF, considering the majority consensus towards him (at least from what I've seen on SMF) is quite negative.

EDIT: This is What I meant to quote bcuz I'm either really dumb or my attempted quote screwed up...actually no both


I thought his SASUKE 40 fail was sad, he was doing so well and seeing him cry reminded me of his SASUKE 10 interview
But then again, i do have huge Yamada bias as hes my 2nd favourite All-Star behind Nagano and the tournaments i grew up watching the pre shin sasuke tournaments and sasuke rising

[PsychoDelusion]

Jan 20, 2023 13:37:51 GMT -5 sasukewarrior333 said:

I'm alot happier upon learning more about the incident. I apologise if this topic caused anyone distress, but I'm glad we've come to a more uplifting conclusion than when we started.

For the record, I'm very sorry if this topic caused anybody distress.

Nah don't beat yourself up about it, if anything it opened a very interesting can of worms and a very constructive exchange of opinions came out of it. Just always try to keep in mind the amount of context, credibility and most importantly the difference of cultures when it comes to gossip like this (this goes to all of us I guess).