Nagano's reaction to Kaiou

[sasukewarrior333]

Anyone else kinda sad hearing/seeing Nagano's reaction to Kaiou?

If you don't know, after Kaiou failed the Rolling Hill Nagano had this exchange.


Nagano: Ugh, this is the worst….
Staff: Well, it’s his first time..
Nagano: No, falling like that even on the first time, it’s not good


He and Asami were apparently angry with him and Hioki and Yusuke had to comfort Kaiou. He apparently also told him not to participate again though I have only heard about this through word of mouth so take it with a grain of salt. This whole thing just makes me sad if true, I feel Nagano probably had his judgement coloured by Yuta Nakashima almost clearing, but either way I'm not a fan of his reaction. The kid's 13, the pressure and expectations were far too much pretty much solely due to being Nagano's son.

Don't take this as Nagano hate or anything, I still very much respect the man for all of his contributions to the show and I'm not saying he's a bad guy for it, but if true I'm not sure how to feel about this reaction from him.

[transgenderserena]

Damn, thats scummy of him, same with Asami
If Hioki and Morimoto had to come over to comfort him, thats a sign theyre toxic parents

[YourResidentKojiFan]

Wow, really? That's a crazy reaction for anybody to have, let alone Nagano, who's probably the last person I'd expect to react like this. Like you said, there was so much pressure on him through no fault of his own. Kid finally gets to partake in the event he grew up watching his dad on, and not only does he fail early, which sucks by itself, but his parents actually get mad at him for it? That's disgusting. Good on Hioki and Yūsuke for comforting him at least, but wow. I know if I was in Kaiou's shoes I probably wouldn't run again, just out of fear.

By the way, I'm not gonna rant too much about this otherwise this reply would take up the whole screen, but you know who else first competed at a very young age and failed early? Just these Morimoto and Jun guys that I hear are pretty good. Imagine if their parents yelled at them and told them to not compete again. Gonna also say that Nagano himself failed the First Stage his first time, but y'know...

Anyways, I still like Nagano, but wow, if that's real, that's a massive overreaction. Kid's 13!

[sasukewarrior333]

Agreed, keep in mind, Yamada was more patient with his Black Tigers in 29 despite two of them failing the first obstacle, being much older and not even being related to them. It's something I'd expect out of Yamada a lot more than Nagano.



And again, let me restate just so it's clear, I'm not at all saying this makes Nagano a bad person and I'm not at all trying to suggest this means he's abusive, I don't think either of those things. It's very possible that everything worked out fine and it just sounds worse than it actually was, or that it was just a kneejerk reaction caused from sadness and that he regretted it, heck it's even possible the claims aren't actually true and the claims I heard were false. I'm also not saying that this undermines the decades of good attitude and sportsmanship Nagano has shown either. What I am saying, is that if this did happen, then Nagano was being unnecessarily harsh, a 13 year old or even anyone just stepping up to that finish line with the crowd watching and all the pressure mounting is an achievement in and of itself, especially if you're related to one of the most influential competitors in the show's history.

[dakohosu]

Where did you hear this from? I watched a subtitled Sasuke 40 tournament so I got the bit about Nagano saying even for his debut his performance wasn't good enough. I also saw that Nagano's younger brother was laughing at him and Asami told him to stop because "it's not funny".

If they're true then honestly pretty shocking, especially very out of character for Nagano who always came across as being quite selfless and more importantly easy going. Like the kid is 13 years old, and probably both already had enough pressure and eyes on him for being Nagano's son as well as the fact that he himself was obviously disappointed with his own performance, so for Nagano to add insult to injury just isn't called for and is probably a one way ticket to chronic performance anxiety which as we've seen from competitors like Yamada and Keitaro is incredibly sabotaging. So it's not even like Nagano trying to be the 'harsh mentor' type would work on a 13-year-old. Especially saying he shouldn't compete again was ridiculous, as though his decades of experience haven't taught him that most competitors (himself included) have incredibly rocky starts, even if they start competing at an adult age which Kaiou is obviously pretty far away from. I also feel bad if Asami also railed into him, usually if a child underperforms at school or whatever it's one parent who's disappointed and the other (usually the mother) who is much more understanding etc but having both act that way is horrible. I'm sorry Kaiou if this is truly what happened.

It was definitely a combination of Nagano likely wanting to protect his reputation and show his ability as a coach/mentor, as well as the run before him. On the translated broadcast Nagano was referring to Yuta's run telling Kaiou "if you can get to where he got to you can clear"; definitely skewed his perspective of what was and what wasn't realistic, not realising that Nakashima's been a member of the Black Tigers for 2 years despite his age and probably trained a s*** ton prior hence how he got into the Black Tigers. I'm pretty sure Kaiou's only a few months into training, and something tells me (could be wrong here) that he isn't as into the idea of competing as his father is. Could be some weird dynamic going on there, idk.

But yeah, overall, quite surprising, especially given that Yamada, who I would imagine would be a much tougher man to please and with much higher standards due to the expectations he set himself when he competed, didn't react that way when his proteges failed early, even though they were all grown adults and had been training much longer. Hence he would've had more of a reason to get pissed at them (though not to the level of what happened to Kaiou, no one deserves that).

[ahzoo]

Honestly, is it wrong of me to desperately, badly hope that this is simply a malicious falsehood, but at the same time, believe that it is true?

I'm sorry, but if there is one person on this planet who better understands than anyone else the fact that, when it comes to Sasuke s*** happens, and that every obstacle can bite, no matter how otherwise talented you may be, it would Nagano, especially one who suffered through some rather indignified course outs of his own throughout his tenure and peak [7, 8, 10, 15, 22, and all of the 24-26 "runs" come to mind most readily here], and that, honestly, as much as a Rolling Hill fail is a disappointing way to go out [esp. considering the fact that it's clear that he and Makoto both gave their all to training him up for this], it is also a rather understandable failure for a 13-y-o rookie.

In fact, having gone and watched the failure again, it was really more of a freak failure than anything; he cleared the jump fine, and his technique was correct, but somehow, the barrel just gave out uner him in a way that he hadn't really had the opportunity to forsee; tbh, I feel that had he somehow been given an unofficial re-run [possibly as a way for Inui to help defend the boy], he would've cleared the obstacle [and probably quite a few others; his QS attempt points to his having been at a Dragon Glider level skill-wise, so, there really is nothing to get angry over in my opinion, as much as having a falling out with your 13-year-old son over a failure isn't ever acceptable, even were he to have pulled a backflip on the QS like that comedian whose name escapes me.

Nagano was so far in the wrong here that I can't put my disappointment in him into words.

motherf***ing YAMADA IS A LESS DEMANDING AND BETTER-ADJUSTED SENSEI WHO TAKES THE COMPETITION LESS SERIOUSLY THAN HIM.

YAMADA!

THAT'S LIKE USAIN BOLT LOSING A FOOTRACE TO A MAN WITH NO LEGS!

HOW?!

...I expected so much better from him and Asami,

...

...In any case, if this rumour is true, I'm at least happy to ear that Hioki and Yusuke really are every bit as wonderful as they appear to be.

I can only hope one of them two can take Kaiou fully under their wing, because I honestly think that under them, he'll thrive.

He has all of the skills for it, he just got unlucky.

If only his parents could appreciate that fact, and empathise with it, just a tiny bit...

[sasukewarrior333]

Jan 18, 2023 17:27:42 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Where did you hear this from? I watched a subtitled Sasuke 40 tournament so I got the bit about Nagano saying even for his debut his performance wasn't good enough. I also saw that Nagano's younger brother was laughing at him and Asami told him to stop because "it's not funny".

If they're true then honestly pretty shocking, especially very out of character for Nagano who always came across as being quite selfless and more importantly easy going. Like the kid is 13 years old, and probably both already had enough pressure and eyes on him for being Nagano's son as well as the fact that he himself was obviously disappointed with his own performance, so for Nagano to add insult to injury just isn't called for and is probably a one way ticket to chronic performance anxiety which as we've seen from competitors like Yamada and Keitaro is incredibly sabotaging. So it's not even like Nagano trying to be the 'harsh mentor' type would work on a 13-year-old. Especially saying he shouldn't compete again was ridiculous, as though his decades of experience haven't taught him that most competitors (himself included) have incredibly rocky starts, even if they start competing at an adult age which Kaiou is obviously pretty far away from. I also feel bad if Asami also railed into him, usually if a child underperforms at school or whatever it's one parent who's disappointed and the other (usually the mother) who is much more understanding etc but having both act that way is horrible. I'm sorry Kaiou if this is truly what happened.

It was definitely a combination of Nagano likely wanting to protect his reputation and show his ability as a coach/mentor, as well as the run before him. On the translated broadcast Nagano was referring to Yuta's run telling Kaiou "if you can get to where he got to you can clear"; definitely skewed his perspective of what was and what wasn't realistic, not realising that Nakashima's been a member of the Black Tigers for 2 years despite his age and probably trained a s*** ton prior hence how he got into the Black Tigers. I'm pretty sure Kaiou's only a few months into training, and something tells me (could be wrong here) that he isn't as into the idea of competing as his father is. Could be some weird dynamic going on there, idk.

But yeah, overall, quite surprising, especially given that Yamada, who I would imagine would be a much tougher man to please and with much higher standards due to the expectations he set himself when he competed, didn't react that way when his proteges failed early, even though they were all grown adults and had been training much longer. Hence he would've had more of a reason to get pissed at them (though not to the level of what happened to Kaiou, no one deserves that).

I saw these claims made by someone in a Discord server I'm in who claimed they were at taping, who out of respect, I won't name for their privacy. Again, it IS possible that they were just making it up, but they didn't seem to saying it in a malicious or slanderous way, so it would be a weird way to try to diminish his character. 

I'm truly hoping that they were just making rumours, otherwise I'm gonna be really sad, and while I don't think it's something unforgivable by any means, I'd really hope that he apologised to him for it, failing that early in front of a crowd must really take a toll on you at that age in the first place.

Still, if I heard rumours that SHINGO was acting like this? You'd catch me crying in my room 

[ahzoo]

Jan 18, 2023 17:43:22 GMT -5 sasukewarrior333 said:

[I saw these claims made by someone in a Discord server I'm in who claimed they were at taping, who out of respect, I won't name for their privacy. Again, it IS possible that they were just making it up, but they didn't seem to saying it in a malicious or slanderous way, so it would be a weird way to try to diminish his character.

Q: Do you have reason to believe that this person actually was at the taping, and is so, were in a position to overhear these convos as they took place?

I do realise that you do not doubt that person's testimony, but well, anyone can claim to be in a place as they make up any old BS and pawn it off as a totally legit thing that totes happened, doubly so on the internet via a pseudonymous platform.

Case in point, wouldn't you know it? I had bumped into Urusihara Yuuji riding the bus in [REDACTED], Europe, today, and he flipped me off when I mentioned Sasuke to him and asked if he could give me an autograph lol? -> it is literally this easy to lie about these things.

While I won't go so far as to publicly disbelieve it, I am more than ready to make a formal apology to Nagano Makoto and Nagano Asami for my outburst were this "source" to turn out to be illegitimate.

[sasukewarrior333]

Jan 18, 2023 17:58:48 GMT -5 ahzoo said:

Jan 18, 2023 17:43:22 GMT -5 sasukewarrior333 said:

[I saw these claims made by someone in a Discord server I'm in who claimed they were at taping, who out of respect, I won't name for their privacy. Again, it IS possible that they were just making it up, but they didn't seem to saying it in a malicious or slanderous way, so it would be a weird way to try to diminish his character.

Q: Do you have reason to believe that this person actually was at the taping, and is so, were in a position to overhear these convos as they took place?

I do realise that you do not doubt that person's testimony, but well, anyone can claim to be in a place as they make up any old BS and pawn it off as a totally legit thing that totes happened, doubly so on the internet via a pseudonymous platform.

Case in point, wouldn't you know it? I had bumped into Urusihara Yuuji riding the bus in [REDACTED], Europe, today, and he flipped me off when I mentioned Sasuke to him and asked if he could give me an autograph lol? -> it is literally this easy to lie about these things.

While I won't go so far as to publicly disbelieve it, I am more than ready to make a formal apology to Nagano Makoto and Nagano Asami for my outburst were this "source" to turn out to be illegitimate.

I am leaning on the side of it being true. The same person has before mentioned that they were at the taping and posted images of their merch that was sold there, as well as what I think is a ticket to the venue. I do have reason to believe they were at the taping, but they didn't technically have any concrete evidence that these things were indeed said.

That said, you are 100% right that these claims should be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism given we don't have any absolute evidence everything occurred.

[dakohosu]

Well if they verified with evidence that they were at taping then that’s a bit more conclusive, in the sense that if they weren’t present I’d automatically call bs on them magically knowing something that wasn’t caught on camera (probably for good reasons if Nagano was being an a*****e lol) or shown in any supplementary material etc. Of course they could’ve talked to someone present but seemed unlikely. But if they were present then I don’t see any reason why they’d fabricate a story like that, especially in that level of detail. It wouldn’t benefit them in any way to just flat out lie about something.

[sasukewarrior333]

Jan 18, 2023 18:52:20 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Well if they verified with evidence that they were at taping then that’s a bit more conclusive, in the sense that if they weren’t present I’d automatically call bs on them magically knowing something that wasn’t caught on camera (probably for good reasons if Nagano was being an a*****e lol) or shown in any supplementary material etc. Of course they could’ve talked to someone present but seemed unlikely. But if they were present then I don’t see any reason why they’d fabricate a story like that, especially in that level of detail. It wouldn’t benefit them in any way to just flat out lie about something.

Yeah, it seems credible. Man it just... hurts, you know?

[ahzoo]

No men are heroes, and they all have their grey.

It's just heartbreaking to have to find out that this was his...

He was meant to be the opposite, in every single way...

Embittered and saddened half-hearted "joke": What's the difference between Yamada and Nagano?

SPOILER: Click to show

Yamada has his Black Tigers. Nagano has his Tiger parenting abuse.

[dakohosu]

Jan 18, 2023 19:00:18 GMT -5 sasukewarrior333 said:

Jan 18, 2023 18:52:20 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Well if they verified with evidence that they were at taping then that’s a bit more conclusive, in the sense that if they weren’t present I’d automatically call bs on them magically knowing something that wasn’t caught on camera (probably for good reasons if Nagano was being an a*****e lol) or shown in any supplementary material etc. Of course they could’ve talked to someone present but seemed unlikely. But if they were present then I don’t see any reason why they’d fabricate a story like that, especially in that level of detail. It wouldn’t benefit them in any way to just flat out lie about something.

Yeah, it seems credible. Man it just... hurts, you know?

Yep you don’t want to believe it but most of the evidence is pointing to it being true.

For reference I used to be a fan of Drew, so think about how I felt when his wrongdoings were revealed.

[sasukewarrior333]

I will say, before I head to bed, that this has shaken me up personally and I'm truly sorry that I have brought this knowledge upon you all. That having been said, don't give up all faith in Nagano. Keep in mind we've had nothing but vague descriptions of Nagano's behaviour and our source is someone who only speaks English. We don't know for sure whether Makoto and Asami were angry at Kaiou in particular or whether they we just upset with how things turned out generally. It's also possible that him suggesting that his son not compete again was meant out of a place of concern for Kaiou rather than disappointment. This isn't me trying to blindly justify his behaviour, as if he was truly angry with there's no excuse, but I still feel the descriptions are vague to the point that we don't have all the necessary details.

Again, I'm truly sorry to everyone here for mentioning all of this, as I know it's painful to think about. Even still, I think there may be an explanation and that this may not have been as mean spirited as it sounds.

[subtleagent]

Okay, I think something like this should get a legit source because that seems pretty OOC for Nagano even if he was just a bit peeved that his son lost. Though given Nagano I'm pretty sure he was joking and just took said joke too far.

But I will say as we've seen before Nagano really isn't the best at mentoring given both his sister AND his wife failed obstacles he specifically trained them for in KUNOICHI and as we've seen with Takasu Seiki in 33 ~ 35 his results were pretty mediocre so Nagano clearly doesn't have the coaching experience Yamada has so I think and this is just a hunch that Nagano thinks shaming him into doing better is meant to be a motivation which is all the wrong way to mentor.

Part of me is pretty sure he was joking when he said shouldn't ever compete again, but at the same time yeah he clearly set his expectations too high for Kaiou and the poor boy just buckled. He did seem a bit... proud that Kaiou was competing and I think that kinda set him into thinking the boy was gonna dominate and... you know what happened. Again this is all speculation and I'd rather not assume anything of Nagano without any concrete proof (because mind you people on the internet lie... ALL THE TIME) because the last thing we need is slander in SASUKE.

Also, didn't Asami call Makoto a chicken for giving up on the wall in 28? Pretty sure playfully roasting each other is a thing in this family. Though Kaiou probably doesn't take it as well as his father does. Who knows?

Good on Hioki and Yusuke for comforting him though. That part I can believe.

[brz0ny]

Yeah, dont believe everything on the internet. You have no reason to believe something is true just because a person who was at taping said it. Besides, how can you know he is the one who took those merch pictures?

Another thing, people say how even Yamada wouldnt do that. It is a bit different when its your child and when youre mentoring a grown man.

[sasukewarrior333]

Yeah, this is very much why I'm trying to be as careful as I can here since the last thing I wanna do is spread misinformation. These are mostly still rumors at this point and I don't wanna say anything as fact. Part of me wants to ask why a fan would make these claims against a legend of the show if they weren't true but you really can't know these days. I want to trust that someone wouldn't just casually make this stuff up about someone for no reason, but that trust is harder to have with how the internet works.

[dakohosu]

Jan 19, 2023 3:55:01 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Yeah, dont believe everything on the internet. You have no reason to believe something is true just because a person who was at taping said it. Besides, how can you know he is the one who took those merch pictures?

Another thing, people say how even Yamada wouldnt do that. It is a bit different when its your child and when youre mentoring a grown man.

Surely you’d be even tougher on someone who isn’t your own child and is old enough to actually take criticism. Children, especially teenagers, don’t take stuff as well as adults do, they tend to get way more upset or hurt by these sorts of things.

Just because Kaiou’s Nagano’s kid doesn’t mean he’s obliged to uphold Nagano’s reputation more so than the Black Tigers are Yamada’s, especially as in the latter case that’s sort of his defined thing now. Especially as, I’ll say this again, the kid is like 13 so whether he’s the son of a former champion (especially one from 16 years ago) doesn’t warrant the amount of pressure and negative reception placed on him by anyone, let alone his own family.

[transgenderserena]

Damn, this post blew up

[subtleagent]

I mean it is a Nagano post, one that gives a very different impression of him than initially believed. An interpretation that's a massive yikes if true. An interpretation that may not actually be true as the source is questionable at the moment. That's bound to blow it up.