Will the Backstream ever be retired?

[wolf4537]

My yearly hatred thread pops up once again for Sasuke 40!

It's now officially been 10 years since this obstacle was first introduced, and with a total of 13 competitions now showcasing this as the only obstacle where touching water is allowed.

I've given up at this point hoping that they will retire it, but I still think they could find ways to modify the obstacle for future competitions. They could add different ways to make competitors swim through the obstacle, or find different ways to make the water jets less/more powerful.

I'm hoping they at least do SOMETHING at this point moving forward, as the obstacle no doubt has ran its course as being a unique part of Stage 2, with it now just being a time waster.

What do you think?

[dakohosu]

This might be an unpopular opinion but I don't think it's a terrible obstacle, rather incredibly implemented. 38's Stage 2, and I'm sure to some degree 40's as well (not that we got to see any of the four sub-second clears), proved that an unfailable back half can actually work very well with a stringent time limit. Especially three obstacles that complement each other in succession. The Backstream exhausts you and makes you wet, which makes the Reverse Conveyer infinitely harder, and then to top it all off you have to list three heavy a** walls with slippery hands and nothing left in the tank. It's a pretty stellar combo imo, and is certainly exciting when you're fighting both fatigue and the time limit. I also don't really care for the whole "you're not meant to touch the water in Sasuke", like come on guys, there's clearly a difference between falling in the murky brown water of failure and swimming in a clean tank of water that's actually part of the course. Other international shows have doubled down on this as well, like ANW with the Water Walls, so I think this is a massively outdated argument.

The issue is that the time limit is almost never stringent enough to actually capitalise on this back half; more often than not we've had competitors reach the Backstream with like a minute left, so it just becomes a case of when they're going to clear rather than if. It basically defeats the entire point of having a back half you can't fail but is meant to be a battle against the remaining time to the finish, when there's so much time that it's not really a battle, more a minor inconvenience if that.

Not only that but the obstacle has obviously been subject to a lot of controversy, like in 29 where they alternated between tough and downright hazardous jet speed based on success rate, literally screwing with competitor's runs and making what should be a fair everyman-for-themself sport..... unfair. That definitely left a sour taste in people's mouths, myself included, but this was also one tournament and it's been perfectly fine since then. It's at least been functional, unlike the Dragon Glider or Cliffhanger Dimension.

I think they did make the jets a bit tougher in 40, which clearly had a massive effect on the results that I don't believe was the doing of just a 5 second reduction. So I'm all for it staying as long as the jets are sufficiently tough such that clearing isn't a mere formality, while also keeping the time limit low to warrant that back half existing.

[brz0ny]

Not sure what happens with Backstream but I am scared it will produce a sad domino effect in the future and Inui himself hinted at it.

[m4tt3r0x]

Dec 28, 2022 14:11:04 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Not sure what happens with Backstream but I am scared it will produce a sad domino effect in the future and Inui himself hinted at it.

What do you mean?

[dakohosu]

Dec 28, 2022 14:12:36 GMT -5 m4tt3r0x said:

Dec 28, 2022 14:11:04 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Not sure what happens with Backstream but I am scared it will produce a sad domino effect in the future and Inui himself hinted at it.

What do you mean?

Inui mentioned a couple of times that if budget was unlimited he'd be make the entirety of Stage 2 underwater. 

Needless to say, I'm glad this isn't happening at least in the near future, not because I hate underwater obstacles but there's just not much you can do if the entirety of the stage is in one massive pool. Like there's the Backstream and the Water Walls, and that's it. 

I also don't like the idea of an entire stage being based a single skillset, which it inevitably will be if it's completely swimming-based. It gives too much of advantage or disadvantage to certain competitors to the point that it's unfair. Stage 1, for all its flaws, is at least interesting in the sense that it requires both agility and raw strength which are quite rarely found together in Sasuke.

His 'low budget' is probably a blessing in disguise, just knowing that even with loads of resources he'd still just spend all of it on the wrong stuff while likely keeping Stage 1 the same AGAIN.

[hoseasasuke]

Based on what it did in 40, no. The inputs they made to it this time were just right. Not too strong, but not too weak. They only need to reduce the time limit by 5 seconds now, and then watch as a bloodbath ensues.

[dakohosu]

The weakest link on Stage 2 is by far the Salmon Ladder at this point; 23 people attempted AND cleared it in 40. It's literally a non-issue at this point, especially now that the log has been nerfed. Sure, like the Backstream it's also somewhat a time waster, but it was conceived as a highly failable obstacle that was a reliable filter for the fodder/mediocre competitors. They need to replace it with something tougher, especially as the Nobori/Kudari was just a placeholder after the Swap proved to be too broken, yet it's lasted far longer than it had any right to.

[brz0ny]

Dec 28, 2022 14:12:36 GMT -5 m4tt3r0x said:

Dec 28, 2022 14:11:04 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Not sure what happens with Backstream but I am scared it will produce a sad domino effect in the future and Inui himself hinted at it.

What do you mean?

Dakohosu explained it for me.