What changes should be made in Stage 1?

[SasukeBanzukeNo1 (Moon12)]

There's definitely been a lot of speculation for a revamp of stage 2 recently--and i agree that it deserves the most change. However, since there's already a thread for that, a stage 1 makeover should be up for discussion as well. I'm not just talking about obstacle upgrades here people (like the Fish Bone Kai or Ni Ren Soritatsu Kabe for instance). I'm talking an ACTUAL stage 1 makeover. Any thoughts on an idea or blueprint would be appreciated. I mean, it's the 40th SASUKE for crying out loud, not to mention it's going to be the 25th anniversary tournament. That would be the perfect time to do something special for this course, even though we've already missed a chance to revamp the course afer Yusuke's 2nd Kanzen.

So any ideas?

[azn]

Time Limit - 85secs

1 - Striding Steps +
2 - Pole Maze
3 - Cannonball from VIKING or a sliding version of ANW's Corkscrew
4 - Jumping Spider with Moving Panels going up and down and in and out
5 - Dragon Glider
6 - Tackle w/ slight Incline
7 - Ni Ren Soritatsu Kabe
8 - Lumberjack Climb

Despite this layout being incredibly unrealistic, a nightmare on budget, and for some of these ideas, a safety hazard, I'm really gonna just emphasize the one part that I feel is actually realistic to do.

Striding Steps to Pole Maze, the Striding Steps are small and compact Steps which forces speed from competitors, especially given that instead of a rope to transfer to the platform, it leads directly to the Pole Maze, an obstacle which needs a running start to be completed efficiently.

This forces non-speedsters like a recently crowned 2 time grand champion, to be fast and precise instead of taking their time. It's simple, and yet I feel it's very possible to be placed down in exchange for the once brilliant but now detrimental Quad to Rolling Hill combo.

[subtleagent]

Tackle w/ incline kind of feels like an accident just waiting to happen. Though yes please moving panels need to come back. They were so ahead of their time.

[dakohosu]

Again I’m being a realist here cos no point in suggesting things that won’t happen, unless Inui’s a member of this forum which is defo isn’t hahaha.

The two obstacles that stand out to me are the Rolling Hill and Silk Slider. The Rolling Hill because it’s the culprit for so many drawn out and anticlimactic runs, and the Silk Slider because it’s just too easy.

Given that Sasuke built itself on being the world’s hardest obstacle course, I’m a huge advocate of weening out the joke competitors and novices as early as possible. It makes for more time for stronger competitors and/or athletic celebrities, and also prevents a Sasuke 38 situation where a lot of Stage 1 became a pain to watch.

I’d replace the Rolling Hill with maybe the Pole Maze, or any obstacle that penalises going too slowly on the Quad Steps, given that you’d need sufficient momentum to move the pole.

I’d replace the Silk Slider with something like the Rolling Escargot as that was a deadly obstacle that got removed because it was ‘too hard’ from Sasuke 28 so imo it’s deserving of a return.

I’d reduce the time limit to 90 seconds. 100 seconds was clearly too lenient especially if you don’t factor in the rain.

And yeah, Tackle with an incline is a H&S hazard. If you run out of steam, you’ll end up getting run over by almost a ton, effectively simulating what it feels like to get hit by a car.

[dragstar]

1. Striding Steps
2. Diving Boards
3. Snake Run
4. Giant Cycle
5. Slide Surfer
6. Sonic Curve
7. Tackle
8. Lumberjack Climb

I'd like to have a course that aren't really affected by weather conditions, so no Soritatsu Kabe.

[ahzoo]

Accounting for budgetary and spatial considerations, and limiting myself to only using ideas Inui already had, I ccame up with this:

1. Step Slider - Step Slider is functionally identical to the Striding Steps, but has the benefit of being a really easy mod to implement [simply replace the Rolling Hill with a zip-line]
2. Pole Maze - Ideally, you'd use the 19 version here to further increase the need for competitors to have built up speed on the Silk Slider, and make the time limit even more of a threat than it already is.
3. Rolling Escargot
4. Spin Bridge
5. Dragon Glider - If possible, replace trampoline with a springboard a la Circle Slider.
6. Tackle
7. Warped Wall - URGENT MEMO - TARP ABOVE THIS OBSTACLE BADLY NEEDED!
8. Wing Slider
Time Limit - 84.9s

[Tico]

Dec 30, 2021 23:19:15 GMT -5 azn said:

Time Limit - 85secs

1 - Striding Steps +
2 - Pole Maze
3 - Cannonball from VIKING or a sliding version of ANW's Corkscrew
4 - Jumping Spider with Moving Panels going up and down and in and out
5 - Dragon Glider
6 - Tackle w/ slight Incline
7 - Ni Ren Soritatsu Kabe
8 - Lumberjack Climb

Despite this layout being incredibly unrealistic, a nightmare on budget, and for some of these ideas, a safety hazard, I'm really gonna just emphasize the one part that I feel is actually realistic to do.

Striding Steps to Pole Maze, the Striding Steps are small and compact Steps which forces speed from competitors, especially given that instead of a rope to transfer to the platform, it leads directly to the Pole Maze, an obstacle which needs a running start to be completed efficiently.

This forces non-speedsters like a recently crowned 2 time grand champion, to be fast and precise instead of taking their time. It's simple, and yet I feel it's very possible to be placed down in exchange for the once brilliant but now detrimental Quad to Rolling Hill combo.

The tackle w/ incline can work. They just have to put the same system in play that roller coasters use when going up a lift hill so the train doesn’t go back into the station.

[ArbuthnotBlob]

It would have to be a heck of a system, because these things are always fallible to some degree, and people aren’t normally hanging out on the tracks in between the cars! Given how the original Banzuke was cancelled, I highly doubt production, insurance or TBS would touch that with a barge pole, fun as it is to imagine.


Imagining that Inui persuades TBS to give him a budget boost for the anniversary, and Covid recedes and stops playing hell with the budget and the taping, this is my wish list:

- The steps are classic, maybe time for a new version but I can’t say I’m too fussed

- Replace Rolling Hill (it slows the stage to a crawl and it’s had it’s day, now) - with what, I admittedly don’t know - some kind of balance obstacle, perhaps extend the first water pit and have it floating on top? Or the steps into a rope or chain swing, I miss the more dynamic, swinging obstacles

- Upgrade the Silk Slider landing pad so it floats, like some of the Takeshi’s Castle set-ups - I appreciate this is a lot of floating, but it would be a relatively easy? way to upgrade it without replacing it outright, it’s already in water

- I’d honestly like to see Fishbone go at this point, but given I’ve already full-replaced one obstacle, at the bare minimum give it a freshen up and a better colour scheme xD

- Dragon Glider is fun, I’d probably leave it as-is, if you really wanted to mix it up, maybe exit to a rope net a la the obstacle from 23 I can’t remember right now that gave Nagano his infamous re-run

- My big controversial change - get rid of Tackle! Now, I love Tackle, it’s a very smart idea, creates tension going into the wall(s) but I’m forming this revamp around the rough idea of making S1 a pure speed/agility stage again and Tackle does not fit that MO - replace it with the Spin Bridge, perhaps

- Return to a single Warped Wall with the buzzer at the top - I don’t mind Ni Ren but without Tackle it really doesn’t have a purpose, so I’d send it straight back to obstacle graveyard

- D-d-drop that time limit! I have no idea how this would all shake out, but it could go down as low as 60 or even 50 and still be manageable, perhaps? Really make S1 the SPEED stage - lots of balance obstacles, lots of rushing, but fully do-able with precision and concentration - and then make S2 the killer Power stage which cleans a lot of people out before S3

I was thinking, and part of both S1 and S2’s problem is that they basically share an identity right now - they’re both sort-of speed stages but have some really slooow obstacles in there, they both have heavy, power obstacles that create time crunch and I think they need to try and separate themselves again and the easiest way I can think of to do that is something like the above.

Also, I sound like a broken record today, but if any budget left? Give Stage One some visual TLC please, the current look is somehow both garish, ugly and nondescript!

[Ninja Relaxer]

Just get rid of the Rolling Hill and I'll be happy.

Yeah, a complete renewal would be nice, but I'm trying to be reasonable; the show obviously has a very limited budget, and the Rolling Hill is the weakest link in Stage 1.

[dakohosu]

Dec 31, 2021 6:42:06 GMT -5 dragstar said:

1. Striding Steps
2. Diving Boards
3. Snake Run
4. Giant Cycle
5. Slide Surfer
6. Sonic Curve
7. Tackle
8. Lumberjack Climb

I'd like to have a course that aren't really affected by weather conditions, so no Soritatsu Kabe.

The Lumberjack Climb would probably be even harder in the wet than the Warped Wall. Trying to get traction on a wet vertical platform is literally impossible as well as having to grip onto wet handholds.

[dakohosu]

Jan 1, 2022 10:22:49 GMT -5 ArbuthnotBlob said:

It would have to be a heck of a system, because these things are always fallible to some degree, and people aren’t normally hanging out on the tracks in between the cars! Given how the original Banzuke was cancelled, I highly doubt production, insurance or TBS would touch that with a barge pole, fun as it is to imagine.


Imagining that Inui persuades TBS to give him a budget boost for the anniversary, and Covid recedes and stops playing hell with the budget and the taping, this is my wish list:

- The steps are classic, maybe time for a new version but I can’t say I’m too fussed

- Replace Rolling Hill (it slows the stage to a crawl and it’s had it’s day, now) - with what, I admittedly don’t know - some kind of balance obstacle, perhaps extend the first water pit and have it floating on top? Or the steps into a rope or chain swing, I miss the more dynamic, swinging obstacles

- Upgrade the Silk Slider landing pad so it floats, like some of the Takeshi’s Castle set-ups - I appreciate this is a lot of floating, but it would be a relatively easy? way to upgrade it without replacing it outright, it’s already in water

- I’d honestly like to see Fishbone go at this point, but given I’ve already full-replaced one obstacle, at the bare minimum give it a freshen up and a better colour scheme xD

- Dragon Glider is fun, I’d probably leave it as-is, if you really wanted to mix it up, maybe exit to a rope net a la the obstacle from 23 I can’t remember right now that gave Nagano his infamous re-run

- My big controversial change - get rid of Tackle! Now, I love Tackle, it’s a very smart idea, creates tension going into the wall(s) but I’m forming this revamp around the rough idea of making S1 a pure speed/agility stage again and Tackle does not fit that MO - replace it with the Spin Bridge, perhaps

- Return to a single Warped Wall with the buzzer at the top - I don’t mind Ni Ren but without Tackle it really doesn’t have a purpose, so I’d send it straight back to obstacle graveyard

- D-d-drop that time limit! I have no idea how this would all shake out, but it could go down as low as 60 or even 50 and still be manageable, perhaps? Really make S1 the SPEED stage - lots of balance obstacles, lots of rushing, but fully do-able with precision and concentration - and then make S2 the killer Power stage which cleans a lot of people out before S3

I was thinking, and part of both S1 and S2’s problem is that they basically share an identity right now - they’re both sort-of speed stages but have some really slooow obstacles in there, they both have heavy, power obstacles that create time crunch and I think they need to try and separate themselves again and the easiest way I can think of to do that is something like the above.

Also, I sound like a broken record today, but if any budget left? Give Stage One some visual TLC please, the current look is somehow both garish, ugly and nondescript!

This is actually a really good point about Stage 1 and 2 being basically the same. If anything, I’d say Stage 2 is probably easier than Stage 1 given that the Dragon Glider is WAY harder than the Salmon Ladder.

I miss the time where Stage 2 was either a quick short speed stage like in the earlier tournaments, or an upper body gauntlet like in Shin-Sasuke. Both were very different approaches to an ‘intermediate’ difficulty stage but both worked really well. While in both aforementioned eras Stage 1 remained the agility, parkour-esque stage.

If it were up to me I’d agree with you. Stage 1 is far better positioned atm to be a speed stage, just as long as we make the first half of the course much more fast-paced, technical, and failable, and drop the time limit. Stage 2 I’d like to see become more similar to how it was in Shin-Sasuke, where the DSL+UB combo prevented novices from embarrassing themselves on Stage 3. Like replace the Kudari and Spider Walk with two more upper body obstacles after the Nobori with no rest. But with the Backstream likely not going anywhere idk how feasible that would be.

[dragstar]

Jan 2, 2022 15:42:59 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Dec 31, 2021 6:42:06 GMT -5 dragstar said:

1. Striding Steps
2. Diving Boards
3. Snake Run
4. Giant Cycle
5. Slide Surfer
6. Sonic Curve
7. Tackle
8. Lumberjack Climb

I'd like to have a course that aren't really affected by weather conditions, so no Soritatsu Kabe.

The Lumberjack Climb would probably be even harder in the wet than the Warped Wall. Trying to get traction on a wet vertical platform is literally impossible as well as having to grip onto wet handholds.

I wonder what kind of final obstacle would be fine in the rain. Rope Climb probably? Or Tarzan Rope to Rope Ladder?

[ahzoo]

If I had to guess, the least rain-affectable final obstacle would easily be the Rope Ladder, on account of it being an obstacle that has built-in anti-slip hand- and foot- holds.

That said, I also feel that the very small, angled, platforms that make up of the rest of your course would themselves pose a massive issue when trying to blast through them in rainy/wet conditions, for unless one applies some sort of grip-tape to the platforms to make them far less of a slipping hazard, considering that all of the obstacles involve competitors trying to run as fast as possible and/or build up momentum as they cross said platforms, these obstacles could themselves prove nigh-impossible to complete much like the Warped Wall.

[dakohosu]

It would honestly be easier to just shake up the organizational skills of the producers than re-design the entire course around it being possible to do in the rain; as ahzoo mentioned any decently hard Stage 1 obstacle bar the Rope Ladder is going to cause havoc in the rain.

Maybe they should just pick a date where no rain is forecast, or if it starts raining then delay the remainder of taping to the next day, like they did in Sasuke 32 and 37. In the unlikely event that it's like raining the entire week, at least force every competitor to run in the same sorts of conditions. I've said this a thousand times but Sasuke 8 was filmed in torrential rain but it was largely considered one of the best tournaments as it served as an additional hurdle for EVERY competitor, not just handicapping the last 10 runs unfairly. If anything, having a tournament like that would be cool as it'd be a test of resilience and adaptability to such a handicap.

There are barely any obstacles that 'wouldn't be affected' by the rain, except for like the Jump Hang but with the Dragon Glider I assume there's not much room for that obstacle in Stage 1. Also Inui would never get rid of the Soritatsu Kabe; he's added another one for god sake lol.

[lightningmatt]

add sprinklers lol (at this point I can't even tell if I'm still being sarcastic or not)

[ArbuthnotBlob]

Jan 3, 2022 4:55:15 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

It would honestly be easier to just shake up the organizational skills of the producers than re-design the entire course around it being possible to do in the rain; as ahzoo mentioned any decently hard Stage 1 obstacle bar the Rope Ladder is going to cause havoc in the rain.

Maybe they should just pick a date where no rain is forecast, or if it starts raining then delay the remainder of taping to the next day, like they did in Sasuke 32 and 37. In the unlikely event that it's like raining the entire week, at least force every competitor to run in the same sorts of conditions. I've said this a thousand times but Sasuke 8 was filmed in torrential rain but it was largely considered one of the best tournaments as it served as an additional hurdle for EVERY competitor, not just handicapping the last 10 runs unfairly. If anything, having a tournament like that would be cool as it'd be a test of resilience and adaptability to such a handicap.

There are barely any obstacles that 'wouldn't be affected' by the rain, except for like the Jump Hang but with the Dragon Glider I assume there's not much room for that obstacle in Stage 1. Also Inui would never get rid of the Soritatsu Kabe; he's added another one for god sake lol.

No harm, but if you think they can organise this quickly enough that they can simply pick a day where no rain is forecast you have absolutely no concept of the amount of advance planning that goes into shooting something like SASUKE - those dates will be planned and booked months in advance, not to mention camera and equipment hire, staff recruitment, risk assessments, shooting schedules... it is not a small undertaking!

[dakohosu]

Jan 6, 2022 17:43:46 GMT -5 ArbuthnotBlob said:

Jan 3, 2022 4:55:15 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

It would honestly be easier to just shake up the organizational skills of the producers than re-design the entire course around it being possible to do in the rain; as ahzoo mentioned any decently hard Stage 1 obstacle bar the Rope Ladder is going to cause havoc in the rain.

Maybe they should just pick a date where no rain is forecast, or if it starts raining then delay the remainder of taping to the next day, like they did in Sasuke 32 and 37. In the unlikely event that it's like raining the entire week, at least force every competitor to run in the same sorts of conditions. I've said this a thousand times but Sasuke 8 was filmed in torrential rain but it was largely considered one of the best tournaments as it served as an additional hurdle for EVERY competitor, not just handicapping the last 10 runs unfairly. If anything, having a tournament like that would be cool as it'd be a test of resilience and adaptability to such a handicap.

There are barely any obstacles that 'wouldn't be affected' by the rain, except for like the Jump Hang but with the Dragon Glider I assume there's not much room for that obstacle in Stage 1. Also Inui would never get rid of the Soritatsu Kabe; he's added another one for god sake lol.

No harm, but if you think they can organise this quickly enough that they can simply pick a day where no rain is forecast you have absolutely no concept of the amount of advance planning that goes into shooting something like SASUKE - those dates will be planned and booked months in advance, not to mention camera and equipment hire, staff recruitment, risk assessments, shooting schedules... it is not a small undertaking!

I’m fully aware of how much organisation is required in advance, but the fact that there’s been several instances where they’ve delayed taping to another day implies that there is at least some wiggle room for a failsafe should it be required. Sasuke 12 got delayed by weeks, Sasuke 37’s Stage 1 was delayed by an entire day, even Sasuke 32 which was panned for rubbish organisation had the last few runs of Stage 1 delayed by a day too. They could’ve easily done the same for 39, given that it didn’t appear to be raining on day 2 where Stage 2 and 3 were filmed, but nope.

Also, the fact that they plan months in advance mean that they also have several months to think of options in the event that it’s raining for the entirety of that week. I’m not suggesting tarp the entirety of Stage 1 but maybe just the Soritatsu Kabe, which wouldn’t be that hard or expensive with proper planning in advance.

I think overall they’ve pushed their luck. They’ve generally been really lucky with it not raining in the vast majority of tournaments and hence they’ve never really bothered to prepare for it. Maybe it’s because I live in the U.K. where it rains all the time, but imo that’s a huge oversight and I just hope the events of this tournament encourage better preparation for Sasuke 40.

[yomerengues]

If it was for Sasuke 40:
1. `Slider Surfer
2. *Rolling Hill
3. Rolling Escargot
4. *Fish Bone
5. Dragon Glider
6. Tackle
7. Ni Ren Soritatsu Kabe
Time Limit: 105-110 seconds