A kanzenseiha this year would be...

[Ninja Relaxer]

What do you think? Would a kanzenseiha in Sasuke 39 be good or bad? Why?

Note: If there is a kanzenseiha in 39, it would be the first back-to-back kanzenseiha in Sasuke history (not counting Kunoichi, obviously). 

[Apexe]

Awful. Only because they reused nearly every obstacle from the last time, wasn't a proper renewal, and it wouldn't be a surprise to see Morimoto win again.

[anime boy]

No such thing as a bad win. It's the producers fault if someone wins due to their poor course design. Not any of the ninjas. If anyone wins this year they should be celebrated. Kanzens are good for ratings too.

[CustomGaming57]

Another Kanzenseiha in this tournament would defo be bad, unless someone else like Yoshiyuki wins it all and claims the title of Grand Champion which would be way more exciting to watch. For Morimoto though, it will be boring and tiresome to see him go all the way again and I wouldn’t really be surprised if he instead pulled his own failure from 37 all over again.

[dakohosu]

Definitely bad.

Partially because a Kanzenseiha is meant to be a huge achievement and one that happens incredibly rarely. The whole allure of Sasuke and Ninja Warrior is that the course is almost seen as 'unbeatable'; everytime someone does well, the course fights back in one way, shape or form to make sure no one wins. That's why Nagano's victory was so special. He'd come so close so many times but the course just morphed and modified itself just to keep his hands off that final buzzer, and it took 7 years and 13 tournaments until he finally came through.

Having two Kanzens in two tournaments would kind of cheapen the whole allure and title of achieving Total Victory, especially if it's someone other than Yusuke. Yusuke's built up this whole sense of 'invincibility' about him so I think it'd be less detrimental if he won a third time as he's insanely far ahead of the rest of the competitive field, but if it's someone different then it just conveys this whole idea of the course being entirely possible to beat by anyone who's reasonably strong on Stage 3 and trains enough. It's not supposed to be that 'easy', it's supposed to be near darn impossible, which it probably was until Sasuke 38 but competitors have now had over a year to train for the exact same obstacles as they'll be facing.

[Ninja Relaxer]

Yeah, I think a kanzen by Yusuke would be good. It would break his and Yuuji's record and solidify Morimoto as the greatest of all time. But a kanzen by anyone else would be kind of meh, in my opinion. Too many kanzens cheapens the whole competition, and it'll be doubly bad if there isn't a proper renewal this year.

[greenday61892]

Dec 22, 2021 19:08:33 GMT -5 anime boy said:

No such thing as a bad win. It's the producers fault if someone wins due to their poor course design. Not any of the ninjas. If anyone wins this year they should be celebrated. Kanzens are good for ratings too.

I think it's moreso that it'll be bad for the longevity of the show. Getting stale, etc etc

[Eclipse]

For me this thread is very odd. Miyake winning 3 times in a row is considered one of the most epic moments in Ninja history, yet Kunoichi 5 really did not have that many changes either. But the prospect of Yusuke doing the same is bad?

The modifications they did make a lot of sense to polish the course and it’s still a challenge for anyone who isn’t Morimoto.

I definitely think another win would be a good thing no matter what, especially if it’s by someone new.

The idea of a “proper renewal” is pretty interesting to me because Western fans seem to have a different meaning of what Renewal is versus how the show uses it. In my opinion this is a very nice renewal

[dakohosu]

Dec 23, 2021 19:43:07 GMT -5 Eclipse said:

For me this thread is very odd. Miyake winning 3 times in a row is considered one of the most epic moments in Ninja history, yet Kunoichi 5 really did not have that many changes either. But the prospect of Yusuke doing the same is bad?

The modifications they did make a lot of sense to polish the course and it’s still a challenge for anyone who isn’t Morimoto.

I definitely think another win would be a good thing no matter what, especially if it’s by someone new.

The idea of a “proper renewal” is pretty interesting to me because Western fans seem to have a different meaning of what Renewal is versus how the show uses it. In my opinion this is a very nice renewal

I think the main reason for this is that with Kunoichi the producers were far more limited in terms of how much harder they could've made the course, and I'm sure they wanted to spend the majority of the budget on other shows like Sasuke, VIKING, and Pro Sportsman etc. which were still going on at the time. Also, with all due respect to Kunoichi, because it was a lot easier than Sasuke and nowhere near as hyped, a Kanzenseiha just didn't have the same impact or connotations r/e a renewal that one on Sasuke would've had as it was fundamentally just a spin-off.

I agree that this renewal is fundamentally better than nothing at all, but it just comes back to Inui being a bit lazy regardless of the budget, making basically no changes to the course except bringing back the Ni Ren Soritatsu Kabe on Stage 1 (which I still maintain is one of the worst obstacle modifications), and not addressing the fact that the stage was horribly unbalanced last time round which was a major complaint for 38. Stage 2 is exactly the same despite the vast majority of obstacles being really stale, especially the SLN/K which imo is just too easy at this point, so that was a bit disappointing. Stages 3 and 4 I think are fine as both were insanely hard enough already and I think the slight modifications are quite tasteful. I just really hope the Dimension isn't made harder or the ledge movements become based on luck as was rumored as that's objectively just unfair and detracts from success being based purely on skill and training as it should be.

If anything I feel that Sasuke 37's changes were probably more impactful and that wasn't even a renewal (though it was in response to Yusuke's two consecutive Final Stage attempts so I guess it sort of was) with the Cliffhanger Dimension and Rolling Log. 

Mind you, on a positive note, I am glad that the producers haven't gone in the direction of trying to specifically take out Yusuke, as that would've just resulted in a Sasuke 19 scenario where they target a competitor with no blatant weaknesses (Nagano at that time) and end up massacring the entire field in the process.

[Eclipse]

Dec 24, 2021 5:26:08 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Dec 23, 2021 19:43:07 GMT -5 Eclipse said:

For me this thread is very odd. Miyake winning 3 times in a row is considered one of the most epic moments in Ninja history, yet Kunoichi 5 really did not have that many changes either. But the prospect of Yusuke doing the same is bad?

The modifications they did make a lot of sense to polish the course and it’s still a challenge for anyone who isn’t Morimoto.

I definitely think another win would be a good thing no matter what, especially if it’s by someone new.

The idea of a “proper renewal” is pretty interesting to me because Western fans seem to have a different meaning of what Renewal is versus how the show uses it. In my opinion this is a very nice renewal

I think the main reason for this is that with Kunoichi the producers were far more limited in terms of how much harder they could've made the course, and I'm sure they wanted to spend the majority of the budget on other shows like Sasuke, VIKING, and Pro Sportsman etc. which were still going on at the time. Also, with all due respect to Kunoichi, because it was a lot easier than Sasuke and nowhere near as hyped, a Kanzenseiha just didn't have the same impact or connotations r/e a renewal that one on Sasuke would've had as it was fundamentally just a spin-off.

I agree that this renewal is fundamentally better than nothing at all, but it just comes back to Inui being a bit lazy regardless of the budget, making basically no changes to the course except bringing back the Ni Ren Soritatsu Kabe on Stage 1 (which I still maintain is one of the worst obstacle modifications), and not addressing the fact that the stage was horribly unbalanced last time round which was a major complaint for 38. Stage 2 is exactly the same despite the vast majority of obstacles being really stale, especially the SLN/K which imo is just too easy at this point, so that was a bit disappointing. Stages 3 and 4 I think are fine as both were insanely hard enough already and I think the slight modifications are quite tasteful. I just really hope the Dimension isn't made harder or the ledge movements become based on luck as was rumored as that's objectively just unfair and detracts from success being based purely on skill and training as it should be.

If anything I feel that Sasuke 37's changes were probably more impactful and that wasn't even a renewal (though it was in response to Yusuke's two consecutive Final Stage attempts so I guess it sort of was) with the Cliffhanger Dimension and Rolling Log. 

Mind you, on a positive note, I am glad that the producers haven't gone in the direction of trying to specifically take out Yusuke, as that would've just resulted in a Sasuke 19 scenario where they target a competitor with no blatant weaknesses (Nagano at that time) and end up massacring the entire field in the process.

I don't really see that as true, I don't see any reason why Kunoichi would be more limited to change than Sasuke or Viking. And maybe in retrospect it seems less hyped, but it's performance and audience response was just as good as Sasuke when it debuted in 2001. 

Budget for Viking was completely separate since they were run by different networks.

The idea of "renewal" that Western fans use it just very off the way the show uses it. 37 *WAS* a Renewal actually, according to TBS. Sasuke 39 is no less of a renewal than 5, 28, 32.... but fans seem to latch specifically onto Sasuke 18.

Sasuke 18's renewal is a very unique case because Viking had just been cancelled and Higuchi had just been canned from FujiTV, which meant all of the Viking resources were now available for other shows - and they used that. Pole Maze was repurposed Rope Maze. Spider Flip was repurposed Heartbreaker. Shoulder Walk was repurposed Galleon. Log Grip was repurposed Castaway. Salmon Ladder had already been designed and prototyped for Sasuke 5 and got pulled out. Sasuke 18 was not a good or realistic example of what a renewal should be, but it seems to be the "standard" many fans see.

I'm not really sure any of 39 is lazy. The shows intended concept of a "renewal" is to polish up the weakest points. The first half of Stage 3 got some polish, the second half doesn't need it. since it was renewed in 37. The easiest obstacle got made harder. The final got refreshed. To me, this is a very good renewal.

[hoseasasuke]

It would just prove to us that the obstacle course does not have the necessary difficulty for it to be a challenge for the best competitor. So, no, it certainly would not be a good thing. And if it happens, I will quit watching SASUKE, as I have promised on another thread.

[dakohosu]

^Agreed.

I'll never stop watching Sasuke, but I just feel as though the show's at risk of becoming a Schumacher-era Formula 1 scenario; Yusuke reaches the Final Stage or wins while everyone else chokes on the Cliffhanger at best. The gap in skill and consistency at this point is massive; and with more grip based obstacles in Stage 3 and a rock climbing wall on the Final Stage, given that Yusuke's a rock climber if anything I unfortunately see this gap widening in the future. It's not like Nagano or Yuuji where age and a lack of interest caught up to them soon after their wins. Yusuke's only 30 so he's got YEARS left to hog the spotlight. The only competitor I could see catching up to him is Yoshiyuki because he's done so well in such a short space of time.

A part of me feels as though Yusuke will fail Stage 1 given that it's pouring with rain during his run, which I think while massively unfair will at least allow more focus for other competitors and remove the huge predictability that I think 38 suffered from. That said, I'm sure he'll just come back for Sasuke 40-41 and win it all again.... predictably.

[SRW]

The first stage can stay similar whatever but the 2nd stage needs gutting completely and totally renewing and stage 3 needs a new start ok we got the shelves good but give me the proper 5 jump flying bar the end for goodness sake . Final stage yeah sure rock wall something new thats fine.