In your opinion....

[lars072]

OK, we've talked about this in the past, but I would like to know which of these factors you think may lead to the downfall of SASUKE. Although I hope it doesn't happen, it seems to be in decline. TBS surely can do many things to improve ratings and spark interest, but have decided not to adopt many of the suggestions that SASUKE fans all recognoize are important for the survival of the show.

Please vote for as many of these factors as possible and please feel free to add more if there is something I have missed. If you have any othger suggestions, I'd like to hear them.

Please...let's keep this o topic and mature! thanks...

[VenusHeadTrap]

I can't bring my self to think any of those are a problem.

[Oti]

I think the show will just be too boring, no one will watch anymore and it'll be canned.

[scnoi1217]

Many of the reasons you listed, I wouldn't consider hurting the show, at least not to a significant effect that it is dying.

1) too many joke competitors: Despite what some think, these joke competitors help bring in viewers, thus helping ratings, thus keeping the show on the air. The balance between joke and serious competitor is one part of the appeal of the show in my opinion.

2) lack of reliable information/stats: Not that big of a deal, except for maybe die hard fans, which are always a minority. If you want stats, go to Sasukepedia (shameless plug) .

3) no DVDs/CDs/ other merchandise: Sure, more SASUKE shirts would be cool but really have much would they realistically do? A DVD box set would be great, but I see that happening after the show is done, if ever. Plus, I don't think many shows in Japan go to DVD anyway, if I remember hearing correctly.

4) no Nagasaki brothers: It would be nice if they were there as they can go deep and TBS can play up the whole "New Generation of All-Stars" line (see below), but their absence isn't killing the show either. Plus, even if they were there, I highly doubt that the ratings for the last three SASUKEs would be different at all. The ratings drop isn't because of them.

5) not having a new group of 'all-stars': This may help and then again may not. The reason TBS would do this is to attract a younger audience, yet looking at the average age here, they've already done that. It really wouldn't make a difference in ratings that much but more so would change the direction of the show.

6) course is too challenging: I actually think that this adds to the appeal of the show, as shown in the ratings spike from SASUKE 17 to 18. People wanted to know how evil the course was going to be.

7) no official web site: A website does not make or break a show. Tons of crappy shows have a website. However, if they had a website, they could incorporate past episodes into it like shows do now. But, this is extremely unrealistic. Even if they did it, I don't think the popularity of show would increase that much.

8) broadcast is too long/boring: This can be true, however the broadcast has always been long. Specials like these are common in Japan and I don't think splitting up the episodes would work (both in ratings and in time). I agree that the First Stage of Shin-SASUKE can get pretty long and drawn out. SASUKE 21's First Stage was very long and pretty boring to watch. Most people got pretty far and because of the time limit and familiarity, people were able to walk through most of the stage and still clear (Ex: Brian or Lee). A first stage that someone can blitz right through in what seems like short time makes for better viewing and I think SASUKE 22 succeeded in that.



The reason why SASUKE is declining in popularity is because of a few reasons.

A) It's very old. It's a really old show, 12 years is very long for a show, especially one of this format. It's inevitable that ratings are going to go down. An American example is Survivor. Most of us here are probably casual fans or not fans at all of Survivor. How many people here know what season Survivor is on? Or if it is still on the air? I had to look that up myself, and apparently it is on its 18th season. Ratings from the first few seasons were around a 28, now they are at a 12 with a steady decline as the years pass. Think of what the producers of Survivor can do to make us watch the show. The answer is not much.

B) Advertising. Stiff competition in the same time slot and little to no advertisements don't help ratings. SASUKE 22 made big strides to correct this and the ratings improved, so what the new producer is doing is working.

[bigblind168]

Jun 8, 2009 15:26:06 GMT -5 scnoi1217 said:

Many of the reasons you listed, I wouldn't consider hurting the show, at least not to a significant effect that it is dying.

1) too many joke competitors: Despite what some think, these joke competitors help bring in viewers, thus helping ratings, thus keeping the show on the air. The balance between joke and serious competitor is one part of the appeal of the show in my opinion.

10-20 is nice, but now its getting to be 25, or even 30, which is too much. Part of the appeal is tht A fit joe-sho can come on a do decent.

2) lack of reliable information/stats: Not that big of a deal, except for maybe die hard fans, which are always a minority. If you want stats, go to Sasukepedia (shameless plug) .
[/quote]
Well it can be, but i agree with you.

3) no DVDs/CDs/ other merchandise: Sure, more SASUKE shirts would be cool but really have much would they realistically do? A DVD box set would be great, but I see that happening after the show is done, if ever. Plus, I don't think many shows in Japan go to DVD anyway, if I remember hearing correctly.
[/quote]
It would help for sure. Hell, M9 doesnt have too big of a market and doesnt advirtise well. They might mention sasuke @ MM. But they do have Sasuke shirts. I remember in santa monica, the EP of ATOS had a sasuke shirt on of who made it the farthest in each tournament. but more of those, or maybe those sold in reg retail stores wuld be good.

4) no Nagasaki brothers: It would be nice if they were there as they can go deep and TBS can play up the whole "New Generation of All-Stars" line (see below), but their absence isn't killing the show either. Plus, even if they were there, I highly doubt that the ratings for the last three SASUKEs would be different at all. The ratings drop isn't because of them.
[/quote]
No agruments with this.

5) not having a new group of 'all-stars': This may help and then again may not. The reason TBS would do this is to attract a younger audience, yet looking at the average age here, they've already done that. It really wouldn't make a difference in ratings that much but more so would change the direction of the show.
[/quote]
no agruments

6) course is too challenging: I actually think that this adds to the appeal of the show, as shown in the ratings spike from SASUKE 17 to 18. People wanted to know how evil the course was going to be.
[/quote]
As i stated above, part of the appeal is that a fit joe-sho can come of the streets and do somewhat well. A Challenging course is nice, but in Sauske 7, it got 25% ratings, cuz joe-sho could do well on it. Now, its like you have to be training for year(s) to do well.

7) no official web site: A website does not make or break a show. Tons of crappy shows have a website. However, if they had a website, they could incorporate past episodes into it like shows do now. But, this is extremely unrealistic. Even if they did it, I don't think the popularity of show would increase that much.
[/quote]

this can be a killer. Yes you did say many crappy shows have websites... well so do many good shows. a website with informantion helps, it can spread the word and whatnot. A wikipedia page does not help.
8) broadcast is too long/boring: This can be true, however the broadcast has always been long. Specials like these are common in Japan and I don't think splitting up the episodes would work (both in ratings and in time). I agree that the First Stage of Shin-SASUKE can get pretty long and drawn out. SASUKE 21's First Stage was very long and pretty boring to watch. Most people got pretty far and because of the time limit and familiarity, people were able to walk through most of the stage and still clear (Ex: Brian or Lee). A first stage that someone can blitz right through in what seems like short time makes for better viewing and I think SASUKE 22 succeeded in that.
[/quote]

no agruments



The reason why SASUKE is declining in popularity is because of a few reasons.

A) It's very old. It's a really old show, 12 years is very long for a show, especially one of this format. It's inevitable that ratings are going to go down. An American example is Survivor. Most of us here are probably casual fans or not fans at all of Survivor. How many people here know what season Survivor is on? Or if it is still on the air? I had to look that up myself, and apparently it is on its 18th season. Ratings from the first few seasons were around a 28, now they are at a 12 with a steady decline as the years pass. Think of what the producers of Survivor can do to make us watch the show. The answer is not much.

B) Advertising. Stiff competition in the same time slot and little to no advertisements don't help ratings. SASUKE 22 made big strides to correct this and the ratings improved, so what the new producer is doing is working. [/quote]

[Badalight]

No, easier course =/= better.

Part of Sasuke's appeal is that virtually no one can beat it. I don't want some random guy coming from no where and beating the course.

I mean, sure it would be nice for more people to get far, but not undeserving people.

[bigblind168]

Jun 8, 2009 17:58:15 GMT -5 Badalight said:

No, easier course =/= better.

Part of Sasuke's appeal is that virtually no one can beat it. I don't want some random guy coming from no where and beating the course.

I mean, sure it would be nice for more people to get far, but not undeserving people.

i never said easier =/= better
And i don't want joe sixpack comming and winning either. But ratings wise, more people clear stage 1= higher chance of final stage = higher ratings. It's quite simply really.

A hard course, but with like Sauske 8 results is perfect for the show. Not to many people get thru stage 1. But 2 final stage appearences are always good for the show. Now, im looking 2 it from a business and make it last as long as it can stand point, not a fan.

As a fan, i do wanna see a final stage attempt every Sasuke, personally my favorite is the Final because, your seeing the best that tournament, and he has a legit chance for winning it all. But also also as for staging clearings, a Sasuke 18 is perfect, cuz 6 people clear, which is nice, half eliminated in stage 2, and 3 go to stage 3. Now a stage clear woulda been nice, but hey, cant get it all.

Also a spot in the course taht always chances. Like the first stage's 5th obstacle, chances every tournament, ya know, to keep thigns interesting... and see how Shingo, Yamada eff it up.

[Badalight]

"i never said easier =/= better"

What... of course you didn't say that? do you know even know that means?

That means Easier does NOT equal better.

But in your arguement you said it does.

So of course you didn't say that... that was the point. I said it because I disagree. I like the harder course more.

[bigblind168]

Jun 8, 2009 21:34:11 GMT -5 Badalight said:

"i never said easier =/= better"

What... of course you didn't say that? do you know even know that means?

That means Easier does NOT equal better.

But in your arguement you said it does.

So of course you didn't say that... that was the point. I said it because I disagree. I like the harder course more.

stfu and ur logic

[scnoi1217]

Take it easy both of you, he forgot to remove the "/" that's all. You can understand what he means by the rest of his post.

Now, back on topic.

[lars072]

Jun 8, 2009 15:26:06 GMT -5 scnoi1217 said:

Many of the reasons you listed, I wouldn't consider hurting the show, at least not to a significant effect that it is dying.


A) It's very old. It's a really old show, 12 years is very long for a show, especially one of this format. It's inevitable that ratings are going to go down. An American example is Survivor. Most of us here are probably casual fans or not fans at all of Survivor. How many people here know what season Survivor is on? Or if it is still on the air? I had to look that up myself, and apparently it is on its 18th season. Ratings from the first few seasons were around a 28, now they are at a 12 with a steady decline as the years pass. Think of what the producers of Survivor can do to make us watch the show. The answer is not much.

B) Advertising. Stiff competition in the same time slot and little to no advertisements don't help ratings. SASUKE 22 made big strides to correct this and the ratings improved, so what the new producer is doing is working.

Yes, it's 12 years old but it's not a reality show or sitcom. It's an athletic competition similar to World's Strongest Man etc. And who says it cannot go on for many years. If the competitors change and the course changes (to a degree) then people will watch. I agree that advertising also sucks but then a web site, merchandise etc is a part of that. They need to look at a particular segment of the population and target it. I also think it used to be mostly Japanese fans, but due to G4 and other networks and sites showing Sasuke now, a bigger fan base has been created all over the world. How about having spots open to competitors from different countries, and not just G4?

They need to think global now as any successful business will tell you is vital to its survival.

[lars072]

Jun 8, 2009 17:58:15 GMT -5 Badalight said:

Part of Sasuke's appeal is that virtually no one can beat it. I don't want some random guy coming from no where and beating the course.

Hey if someone can beat the course, then it doesn't matter who they are or where they come from.

[Homeslice]

EDIT: Problem cleared!

[bigblind168]

Jun 9, 2009 7:26:48 GMT -5 Homeslice said:

Ah-ah, spoiler! No no no....

Honestly... no one really takes the ground rules seriously at this point in time. Its like everyone heres seen sasuke 22, and the people who wanna know the results will wikipedia it or go onto youtube.

[scnoi1217]

Jun 9, 2009 13:11:44 GMT -5 bigblind168 said:

Jun 9, 2009 7:26:48 GMT -5 Homeslice said:

Ah-ah, spoiler! No no no....

Honestly... no one really takes the ground rules seriously at this point in time. Its like everyone heres seen sasuke 22, and the people who wanna know the results will wikipedia it or go onto youtube.

Doesn't mean they aren't enforced. Yes, I know that most here have seen the show, however, those rules were put into place to avoid another Rider and SASUKE 20 fiasco, and the rules seemed to have worked. I know its annoying but only two more weeks.

[scnoi1217]

Jun 9, 2009 5:26:03 GMT -5 lars072 said:

Jun 8, 2009 15:26:06 GMT -5 scnoi1217 said:

Many of the reasons you listed, I wouldn't consider hurting the show, at least not to a significant effect that it is dying.


A) It's very old. It's a really old show, 12 years is very long for a show, especially one of this format. It's inevitable that ratings are going to go down. An American example is Survivor. Most of us here are probably casual fans or not fans at all of Survivor. How many people here know what season Survivor is on? Or if it is still on the air? I had to look that up myself, and apparently it is on its 18th season. Ratings from the first few seasons were around a 28, now they are at a 12 with a steady decline as the years pass. Think of what the producers of Survivor can do to make us watch the show. The answer is not much.

B) Advertising. Stiff competition in the same time slot and little to no advertisements don't help ratings. SASUKE 22 made big strides to correct this and the ratings improved, so what the new producer is doing is working.

Yes, it's 12 years old but it's not a reality show or sitcom. It's an athletic competition similar to World's Strongest Man etc. And who says it cannot go on for many years. If the competitors change and the course changes (to a degree) then people will watch. I agree that advertising also sucks but then a web site, merchandise etc is a part of that. They need to look at a particular segment of the population and target it. I also think it used to be mostly Japanese fans, but due to G4 and other networks and sites showing Sasuke now, a bigger fan base has been created all over the world. How about having spots open to competitors from different countries, and not just G4?

They need to think global now as any successful business will tell you is vital to its survival.

The point your missing is that SASUKE is still a show, a show whose ratings dictate its survival. If "World's Strongest Man" got no ratings (which it probably does since it is on ESPN2), would they cancel the event? No. They are still going to have a competition each year whether someone watches or not. Same goes for something like poker which had been around for a long time before ESPN's "pocket cam" made watching poker exciting. Those aren't going away.

SASUKE however, is a game show. It is. At its very core, competitors are trying to complete an insane obstacle course for a cash prize. Sure, SASUKE is different because it has honor and tradition and all the stuff we love about the show, but at its core, it is still a show, a show where ratings are #1.

When you say, "I agree that advertising also sucks but then a web site, merchandise etc is a part of that." I don't necessarily agree. Sure, a website would help, BUT to what extent? Is a website and some merchandise going to be the resurgence that SASUKE needs to survive for say 10 more years? Probably not. In my opinion, merchandise and a website doesn't make a show popular rather a popular show makes merchandise and a website. That's why all those games and whatnot came out during its golden period where Mr. SASUKE and Kane Kosugi were the stars of the show. If they made a game now, how many would it sell? Depends, but in Japan, where it would count the most, I don't think it would be that much.

The things you are listing and the way you are writing, it seems like you are saying that if TBS did these things, then SASUKE would get a new resurgence and spike in ratings and popularity. SASUKE already got that with the help of G4 (whether you agree with how they run Ninja Warrior, there's no doubt that it helped).

When you say, "How about having spots open to competitors from different countries, and not just G4?" Well, that has a cause and effect. If you make SASUKE more like the Olympics, then yes, you'll attract an international audience, however by doing that what is that do to the Japanese audience? The Japanese audience already has a lukewarm reaction to G4, what would happen if that was expanded to all countries that broadcast Ninja Warrior? Plus, if they add more international spots, who are they going to displace? The joke competitors, no, they serve a purpose in getting fans to watch, plus having them wipeout spectacularly makes for great TV. Sure, the added popularity from overseas if great, but for TBS, who decides whether or not SASUKE continues, does it make that much of a difference if they aren't seeing anything in Japan, where it counts? Same goes for t-shirts and a website, nice add ons, but not what will make or break a show.

What TBS needs to do is continue to do what they did in SASUKE 22. Have the joke competitors do their job and attract a larger audience in Japan, the amount in 22 might have been excessive for us, who want a field of 100 that you see in Supersheep's simulator. Also, have the legit competitors get far. The course in 22 was really good, and I don't see that many changes (except what I have said in the SASUKE 22 forum). Finally, they need to continue to advertise the hell out of the show. SASUKE 22's was really good, but of course they can do more. Have the All-Stars or a celebrity like Sato go around advertising the show by doing radio/TV interviews about the show. Anything to get the time and date out there. Plus, from the ratings of 18 and certain parts of 22, I know there is a demographic for SASUKE, one that can get them back into the 18-19% range, something not seen since SASUKE 10.

[obakemono]

It's all about the marketing. As it stands, there isn't really any to speak of. The quality of the product is almost irrelevant compared to exposure.

[madmanike]

While it is true that in Japan the show has gone on for 12 years now, the rest of the world has just gotten it's first year or two under it's belt. As was said, if TBS gets it's head on straight and starts a two prong marketing assault, one for Japan and one for the Global community, Sasuke could very well run another 10 years if they do it right. But that requires them to actually put forth some effort into making that happen. And so far, it seems they are content to just let whoever leases the right to show it to handle that part. I think that bit of apathy on their part will be what kills it outright.

[quasikoz]

scnoi has made some of the best points so far. Sasuke needs advertising and marketing to survive in Japan. If it survives in Japan then they should considering milking the residual international popularity through a website. Granted they won't make enough off of merchandise or video alone to sustain itself, but that extra pocket money can help.

But I also think the best way to get people watching is to have a new persona on top. Someone that can go deep into the course and attract a group of new viewers. The All-Stars are great, no doubt, but some fresh faces will attract a bigger audience. Think pro wrestling. Having a new champ every once in a while refreshes the product with new feuds and new matches to sell. Having someone new on top gives Monster9 a chance to refresh the product. I would love to see if Monster9 brings in everyone from UNCLI and makes them into a new stable of stars provided they can go the distance.

[joemello]

The problem with aggressively marketing Sasuke is that there's no real gap between tape date and air date. Granted, there are ways to market around this, but it'd be nice to tease around some actual footage.

The double edge sword here is that would promoting Sasuke actually benefit? Panel Quiz Attack has been on for 34 years, and I'm willing to bet it lives on word of mouth by now. Theoretically, this is the best case scenario for ANY product you want to promote. An all-out ad blitz could be a sign that the franchise is in dire straits and may actually turn people off.

At the risk of spoilers (when does it air again?) I'll just say Sasuke 22 was quite unique. If M9 can figure out how to bottle that uniqueness and be able to sell it for a year or two, then we could see a revitalization of the franchise. Otherwise, say goodbye to Old Yeller.