BigT
Wakky
Posts: 134
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Stage 1
Nov 14, 2020 12:31:07 GMT -5
Post by BigT on Nov 14, 2020 12:31:07 GMT -5
People often complain about stage 2 having lots of problems like too lenient time limit, backstream etc. Many also agreed that stage 3 is too cliffhanger-centric.
I believe stage 1 is most balanced of them all at the moment but I've heard opinions that it should be changed. So I'm really curious - how would you improve it?
An idea I used to have is to replace Quad Steps and Rolling Hill with something else as competitors have seemed to master it so it just really slows things down. But on the other hand, it still occasionally eliminates high-level competitors like Isa Yoshinori and Jamie Rahn. Perhaps add another drop to Wing Slider? I'd really like to see original Tarzan Rope and Rope Climb to return at the end of stage 1 as it was a reason for many dramatic last-second clears. It still feels weird to finish at Warped Wall.
So what are your suggestions?
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
100%
Posts: 1,282
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Stage 1
Nov 14, 2020 14:21:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by tns8597 on Nov 14, 2020 14:21:00 GMT -5
The only thing I would change is the Wing Slider. I personally like putting really difficult/unpredictable obstacles really early on in Stage 1 because it gives you that feeling that no one is safe no matter who they are; that’s why the Rolling Hill works so well because we’ve seen so many veterans fail it out of the blue. The Wing Slider is only really there to ween out the less experienced competitors who made it past the Rolling Hill out of pure luck. Maybe change it into a Cross Slider where you can’t use your feet.
Aside from that, I think what makes Stage 1 way more acceptable than S2 is how they’ve kept it fresh by little tweaks and revamps to minimise monotony and predictability (though this is ignoring the Rolling Log refresh given that we never saw it in action). Like the Dragon Glider and Fish Bone Kai for example, which is what has prevented the clear rate from spiralling out of control and comprising of a load of inexperienced competitors who didn’t really deserve to do as well as they did; like in Sasuke 34 where we saw loads of rookies clear an easy Stage 1 but have absolutely no chance on Stage 2.
Also re your comment on Stage 3, I agree but I don’t think it’s as bad as it was in the Rising era; from Sasuke 28-31, we saw 24 Stage 3 attempts and all of them reached the Cliffhanger, yet only 6 people passed it. To me, that’s what I define as being way too Cliffhanger centric. At least now the UCCH/CHD clear rates are somewhat higher and the Vertical Limit Kai is more prominent in terms of its Stage 3 notoriety.
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Stage 1
Nov 14, 2020 19:47:46 GMT -5
Post by Ninja Relaxer on Nov 14, 2020 19:47:46 GMT -5
Here's how I would modify Stage 1, using the current (Sasuke 37) version as a model:
① Quad Steps - Keep, or replace it with any of the other "step" obstacles. These are all classics and the perfect way to begin Stage 1, IMO.
② Rolling Hill - Remove, replace with something that doesn't slow competitors down so much. This one is a momentum-killer with the way people carefully move down the logs. Plus, it looks kind of dangerous. The Pole Jump from Sasuke 3-4 might be fun to see here.
③ Wing Slider - Keep, I guess, but it's getting long in the tooth and I'm ready for a change. Bringing back the Log Grip might be enough of a change to satisfy me.
④ Fish Bone - Keep, I guess, but again, I wouldn't miss it if it were replaced. This is probably a good place to add an all-new obstacle.
⑤ Dragon Glider - Remove, replace with Jumping Spider. I've never been a fan of this obstacle and actually feel that it's kind of bad. Jumping Spider, meanwhile is one of the all-time classics.
⑥ Tackle - Keep or replace with Half-pipe Attack. I love that combo. Tackle-Wall is a good combo too, but Tackle slows things down, whereas Half-pipe Attack fits Stage 1's theme better.
⑦ Soritatsu Kabe - Keep. This obstacle should NEVER be retired! It's a classic.
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azn
Ishikawa Terukazu
"There's a time and place for everything... BUT NOT NOW!!!" - Prof. Oak
Posts: 455
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Stage 1
Nov 15, 2020 15:57:32 GMT -5
Post by azn on Nov 15, 2020 15:57:32 GMT -5
Here's mine:
Have the Tackle on an upward slope, not like the hill climb but on an angle that makes it slightly more difficult, but still possible
Replace the Wing Slider with the Cross Slider from S28-S31, and either add a drop or make it spin when it reaches the middle of the track
Replace the Dragon Glider with the jumping spider like the person before me said, however to make it kinda interesting, add some moving panels (?)
Add an obstacle after the Warped Wall, ive never liked the idea of the Warped wall being the final obstacle in stage 1 ever since they did it in S35, plus I really liked the idea of the lumber jack climb, or just the idea of a tough climbing obstacle to scale while the time runs out, timeouts were not the same imo when they put the Warped wall last.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
100%
Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Nov 15, 2020 16:08:28 GMT -5
ninjarelaxer your idea for replacing the Rolling Hill is pretty cool tbh. Imagine having to jump straight into a Pole Maze right after the Quad Steps. That means that you have to keep your momentum through the steps to get a good swing on the pole, because recently so many competitors have been taking the Quad Steps way too slowly and getting both feet and even their hands on the steps which isn't how it was conceived originally.
azn a Tackle up an incline would be way too dangerous as if you run out of steam you literally have 800kg rolling back and running you over (I'm pretty sure this was how Kinniku Banzuke got cancelled); same with the spinning Cross Slider, if you slip while it's spinning you can literally faceplant into one of the walls lol. Would be quite funny but could legit cause some serious injuries (and by serious I don't just mean Takeda's shoulder going for the 20th time).
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Stage 1
Nov 15, 2020 16:09:33 GMT -5
Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Nov 15, 2020 16:09:33 GMT -5
IMO, I'd say Stage 1 has consistently been the most well-rounded and unique stage ever since the Rising era.
Stage 2 suffers from a chronic lack of change, while Stage 3 DOES change... but always revolves around the same 1-2 obstacles.
Stage 1, on the other hand, has been changed up a lot...
Obstacle 1: Quad Steps > Long Jump > Rolling Hill > Rolling Hill + Steps
Obstacle 2: Rolling Escargot > Log Grip > TIE Fighter > Wing Slider
Obstacle 3: Spin Bridge > Hedgehog > Music Box > Fishbone > Fishbone Kai
Obstacle 4: Jump Hang Kai > Double Pendulum > Dragon Glider.
IMO, Stage 1 barely needs change right now, and resources should be spent on a full revamp of Stage 2 instead. The changes above show the innovation that has gone into Stage 1 in the last 10 tournaments.
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BigT
Wakky
Posts: 134
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Stage 1
Nov 15, 2020 19:49:16 GMT -5
Post by BigT on Nov 15, 2020 19:49:16 GMT -5
Yeah, actually I had the exact same opinion and it's great you brought examples.
Historically, there also often seems to be limited change in stage 1 until a new kanzensheiha.
For example, Rolling Log/Cross Bridge/Jump Hang and Log Grip/Jumping Spider/Half-Pipe Attack largely define their respective eras just like we have Wing Slider/Fishbone/Dragon Glider now. I think it's good if it stays that way as we will somewhat remember this particular era of Sasuke for the obstacles.
And I agree - focus should be put towards stage 2.
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