tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Aug 25, 2020 5:28:23 GMT -5
Who do you think is the best all-round competitor on Sasuke? All-round not referring to being able to clear all 4 stages as then the answer would be obvious. I mean all-round being a combination of upper-body strength, raw strength, speed, technique, consistency, and so on.
Mine I think has to be Kong, I'll do this by attributes I mentioned....
Upper-body strength: Made Stage 3 on 8 occasions and cleared it once; what's impressive is how this track record was spread throughout largely different eras of the show with new obstacles he'd never seen before, despite being on the larger side for a Japanese competitor, yet he would always make it to AT LEAST the Cliffhanger.
Raw strength: Easily one of the most powerful competitors we've ever seen, like the way he destroys obstacles like the Wall Lifting and Iron Paddler
Speed: always had the fastest Stage 2 times, which further owes to his all-round ability as Stage 2 is a mix of strength, speed, and technique.
Technique: Maybe not as strong as like Morimoto or Shiratori, but he did definitely know how to get himself out of sticky situations, like the Kong Cross on the Shin-Cliffhanger etc.
Consistency: As I mentioned, made Stage 3 throughout a span of 15 years, which is a lot better than most All-Stars managed.
Name yours
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Aug 25, 2020 8:23:34 GMT -5
SASUKE All-Stars: Takeda Toshihiro. Might cause controversy. But here is my reasons. Made First Stage seems like piece of cake *had clear rate of 63.33%, the best (even at one point hold the record of eight First Stage consecutive clears before being matched by Nagano Makoto about ten runs later)*, only struggle with Salmon Ladder in Second Stage, and a record 13 attempts on Third Stage, with seven of it in consecutive tournaments. While it didn't result in any Final Stage attempts, I can convince you that if he didn't broke his shoulder in SASUKE 12, his career could be different.
Non-SASUKE All-Stars: Nakata Daisuke. This guy seriously could had better SASUKE career had there is no accident involved. Even with that crap, he still manage to have a clear rate of 77.78% in First Stage, which is I think the best result for non-SASUKE All-Stars *that might need further checking*. Literally only fail one obstacle in First Stage, Rolling Maruta *had his hand not act up in SASUKE 16, he could clear the stage in time*. Also never fail any obstacle in Second Stage beside Salmon Ladder, but that was because of injury. Just that his arm is too weak, he never ever get chance to clear Lamp Grasper. Not helped by that accident after SASUKE 13.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Aug 25, 2020 8:48:20 GMT -5
I can see why you said Nakata, but I don’t think he’s a good all round competitor for the following reasons: - He has very poor upper body strength relative to other competitors. He only made Stage 3 because Stages 1 and 2 weren’t that upper body intensive at the time. Even without the injury he wouldn’t have made it far into the stage. - Hes not known for his speed in the same way that Takeda or Kongu are. He can clear Stages 1 and 2 with time to spare but he’s never put on any really speedy performances. - I think you’re going purely by consistency, which to be fair Nakata was, but there are more consistent competitors out there imo.
Still though, I respect your reasoning and everything you said makes sense.
Takeda is a good one too, I almost put him, but he seemed to drop off after he returned in Sasuke Rising.
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Aug 25, 2020 10:09:43 GMT -5
I can see why you said Nakata, but I don’t think he’s a good all round competitor for the following reasons: - He has very poor upper body strength relative to other competitors. He only made Stage 3 because Stages 1 and 2 weren’t that upper body intensive at the time. Even without the injury he wouldn’t have made it far into the stage. - Hes not known for his speed in the same way that Takeda or Kongu are. He can clear Stages 1 and 2 with time to spare but he’s never put on any really speedy performances. - I think you’re going purely by consistency, which to be fair Nakata was, but there are more consistent competitors out there imo. Still though, I respect your reasoning and everything you said makes sense. Takeda is a good one too, I almost put him, but he seemed to drop off after he returned in Sasuke Rising. Well, comparing SASUKE Rising results, Takeda was the best among All-Stars. That is why I split it into two categories. As for Takahashi, while his speed sometimes play huge advantage, it also caused few mistakes *like when he fail Flying Chute in SASUKE 20 for being too hurry*. Beside, speed didn't really matter if you literally never timed up *damn you hands for acting up in SASUKE 16*, so it could be said Nakata had great sense of timing. I don't remember someone who could had that great sense of timing beside Jordan Jovtchev, who literally never had more than five seconds left on the clock every time he clear.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Aug 25, 2020 11:02:21 GMT -5
I suppose that's true; Takeda was definitely the most consistent competitor during the All-Star era. Considering only All-Stars though I'd have to say Nagano is probably a better all-round competitor because he was actually able to beat Stage 3, was very nearly as consistent as Takeda, was faster in a lot of cases, stronger at a lot of obstacles imo etc. He was also able to adapt to newer obstacles much easier, whereas Takeda you'd often see failing new obstacles like the Salmon Ladder iterations, Lamp Grasper, Body Prop etc.
I don't think Kongu's speed was the problem in 20 because he didn't race down the chute like Nagano did in the previous tournament, he just couldn't hold on when he reached for the rope. True speed didn't really matter, but I kind of meant best 'all-round' in terms of their general skillset, not necessarily their ability to complete a stage. I was interested to hear what people thought because the competitors that do well like Morimoto etc. usually do so because they're smaller in stature, but usually suffer on strength obstacles like the Tackle because of their smaller size, conversely larger competitors like Paul Terek would struggle on Stage 3. Kongu I think is that middle-ground in terms of body type (5'10, 150 lbs) that means that he's not really hindered by his weight but he's also got the stature to not have to struggle through strength-based obstacles.
Honestly, had the whole DD issue not happened, I would've definitely gone with him. He put down some obscenely fast times on Stages 1 and 2 despite being larger than most of the Japanese, and managed to destroy Stages 3 and 4 in ANW. Shame that that's all gone to waste now.
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Aug 25, 2020 11:38:46 GMT -5
Then I guess Nagasaki pre-hiatus could also compete for that. He even went to Final Stage before him, in arguably the most balanced Third Stage ever *what the hell was Rope Junction that Takahashi had to face in SASUKE 24?*. It is a shame that his performances never the same since coming back, hence I didn't put him as he lack the consistency.
For Takeda vs. Nagano debate, again, we could take this conversation forever. Nagano might had better record, but, in terms of consistency, Takeda win as Nagano once screwed up in SASUKE 15 during the second era. Takeda also never fail First Stage three consecutive times *might be broken if he fail First Stage in SASUKE 38*, not to mention he clear First Stage more than anyone else in the history.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Aug 25, 2020 11:56:44 GMT -5
I would’ve said Nagasaki was definitely a contender up until SASUKE 33. It’s rare we see someone come back after 6 years and immediately make it to the Third Stage in 3 out of 5 competitions. Usually when someone returns after a hiatus they fail early on (Kongu being another exception to the rule). After that though, he’s been declining and making stupid mistakes; in fact, pretty much every fail from 34-37 has been a dumb error; from falling off the Spider Walk immediately, to dismounting the Dragon Glider too early, etc etc. Still, he’s only 33, he’s got time.
You’re right. I think Takeda was more consistent than Nagano, but you forget that consistency is only one aspect of being an ‘all-round’ competitor. Nagano wasn’t as consistent, but he was stronger, faster, had better upper body strength, didn’t get injured etc. You can be consistent but that doesn’t make you a good all-round competitor; like Keitaro is quite consistent but he’s not good all-round as he doesn’t have good raw strength for swimming or wall lifting hence he always fails Stage 2.
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zoran
Jessie Graff
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Post by zoran on Aug 25, 2020 13:23:41 GMT -5
I can see why you said Nakata, but I don’t think he’s a good all round competitor for the following reasons: - He has very poor upper body strength relative to other competitors. He only made Stage 3 because Stages 1 and 2 weren’t that upper body intensive at the time. Even without the injury he wouldn’t have made it far into the stage. - Hes not known for his speed in the same way that Takeda or Kongu are. He can clear Stages 1 and 2 with time to spare but he’s never put on any really speedy performances. - I think you’re going purely by consistency, which to be fair Nakata was, but there are more consistent competitors out there imo. Still though, I respect your reasoning and everything you said makes sense. Takeda is a good one too, I almost put him, but he seemed to drop off after he returned in Sasuke Rising. Well, comparing SASUKE Rising results, Takeda was the best among All-Stars. That is why I split it into two categories. As for Takahashi, while his speed sometimes play huge advantage, it also caused few mistakes *like when he fail Flying Chute in SASUKE 20 for being too hurry*. Beside, speed didn't really matter if you literally never timed up *damn you hands for acting up in SASUKE 16*, so it could be said Nakata had great sense of timing. I don't remember someone who could had that great sense of timing beside Jordan Jovtchev, who literally never had more than five seconds left on the clock every time he clear. Sasuke Rising?As in 28-30/1? Shingo was clearly the best, if anything Takeda was the worst performing all star during that era.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Aug 25, 2020 13:37:06 GMT -5
I think he meant 28 onwards rather than 28-31.
I have to agree anyway. Shingo during this time seemed like he was stronger than in past competitions, almost making Stage 3 on two occasions. I think after 28 he really worked hard to train and get back into good shape. He’s declined since though.
Takeda on the other hand had been quite disappointing. Sure he cleared Stage 1 three times; but before his hiatus he still seemed really strong and able to directly compete with the new stars who began to dominate towards the end of shin-Sasuke. Nowadays dare I say he’s a mediocre competitor at best, sort of in the category of ‘decent enough to clear Stage 1, but will almost definitely fail Stage 2’ like most of the secondary players of this era.
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Aug 25, 2020 13:40:26 GMT -5
That is what I meant, SASUKE 28 onwards. Probably should use post-SASUKE Rising....
I don't know what happen with Yamamoto from SASUKE 31 onwards. He seems fit enough, yet he keep doing stupid mistakes *like rushing the jump on Rolling Hill*. And now he seems to grow some sort of phobia with trampoline, when the other All-Stars who attempt trampoline jump never show a sign of struggle with it.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Aug 25, 2020 13:55:20 GMT -5
Yeah I don’t understand the new phobia with trampoline obstacles.
He’d never had a problem with it; before recently he’d only failed the Jump Hang once which was a freak accident, and the Jumping Spider once which was because it was way too OP in Sasuke 19.
It seemed to start from 33 onwards; in 32 he failed the Double Pendulum but the dismount portion, but the remainder of times he just made a sh***y attempt at the jump, as though he was purposely holding back. No idea why.
I wonder how he would’ve done if he did make Stage 3 again, because he nearly did in 25 and 30 (not 29 because the time limit and Backstream would’ve definitely stopped him no matter what).
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Post by PizzaKing57 on Aug 25, 2020 16:07:51 GMT -5
I'll say this for the very last time, if I see that Shingo f**ks up on the trampoline jump of the Dragon Glider once more in the next tournament on live, then I'm gonna take my eyes off the screen in a split second and never watch that devastating run with the volume on.
Trampolines is what Mr. Perfect Attendance needs to work on the most in order to work out how to time his jumps properly. If we see Shingo make it to the 2nd Stage in 38, then he'll probably compete shirtless for the very first time in his career and we'll also get to see him attempt that old Rolling Log, for the first time in ten years.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Aug 25, 2020 16:24:21 GMT -5
What does him competing shirtless have to do with anything hahaha?
He seems to go up but not forwards. He gets enough height but is never able to grab the bar, and we see him do that hilarious running kick thing where he knows he's about to fail but is drastically trying to save himself.
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