tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 10:58:22 GMT -5
What's your SASUKE tier list like?
Given that there's hundreds of strong competitors at this point, rules are that you can only include: - competitors who have competed at least 5 times - competitors who have competed in at least one of the last 10 tournaments (from SASUKE 28 onwards)
Mine are...
S: Morimoto, Nagano, Drew, Yuuji A: Tomo, Jun Sato, Hioki, Shingo, Takeda, Tada, Kanno, Asa, Okuyama, Hashimoto, Nagasaki, Lee En-Chih, Kongu, Iketani B: Akiyama, Yamada, Shiratori, Omori, Keitaro, Darvish, Mori Wataru, Ishikawa, Ryo, Suzuki Yusuke, Masaaki Kobayashi, Yuuji Washimi, Araki C: ABC-Z, Snow Man, Hiromichi Sato, Wakky, Kinnikun, Takeru D: All the mediocre joke competitors lol.....
Let me know your opinions; I'm sure I missed out a ton too.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jul 8, 2020 11:30:37 GMT -5
EDIT: Ignore this, I redid it below with actual thought (and these were never in any order other than the letters)
S. Yusuke Morimoto, Drew Drechsel, Yuuji Urushihara, Makoto Nagano A. Kouji Hashimoto B. Tomohiro Kawaguchi, Ryo Matachi C. Kong Takahashi, Hitoshi Kanno, Asa Kazuma, Toshihiro Takeda, Yoshiyuki Okuyama, Lee Enchi, Bunpei Shitatori, Brent Steffensen C-. Kazuhiko Akiyama (maybe D) D. Yuuji Washimi, Shingo Yamamoto, Darvish Kenji, ABC-Z, Suzuki Yusuke, Jessie Graff
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 11:37:52 GMT -5
S. Yusuke Morimoto, Drew Drechsel, Yuuji Urushihara, Makoto Nagano A. Kouji Hashimoto B. Tomohiro Kawaguchi, Ryo Matachi C. Kong Takahashi, Hitoshi Kanno, Asa Kazuma, Toshihiro Takeda, Yoshiyuki Okuyama, Lee Enchi, Bunpei Shitatori, Brent Steffensen C-. Kazuhiko Akiyama (maybe D) D. Yuuji Washimi, Shingo Yamamoto, Darvish Kenji, ABC-Z, Suzuki Yusuke, Jessie Graff Woah, that's pretty interesting. Why only Hashimoto in A? And Shingo in D, really? Haha, I know he's sucked recently but he has had a lot of success in the past.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 11:43:43 GMT -5
Also, I wouldn't put Jessie Graff in D either; even by general standards (not just for a woman) she's kicked a**. She's made it to Stage 3 2/2 times she's competed in SASUKE, and even completed Stage 2 in USA vs. the World and their Stage 2 is soooo much harder than Sasuke's.
I didn't include her as she's only competed twice in Sasuke, but otherwise she'd defo be in B-tier at least, by my rankings.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jul 8, 2020 13:19:43 GMT -5
Decided to redo this instead of banging it all out in just a few minutes. Overall from all eras included and not just as of current ability in 2020 (and yes these are intentionally in descending order, and this severely fried my brain trying to rank every competitor, AND this is not perfect):
Drew Drechsel S+ (only worse than Yusuke on Stage 3, which he potentially could fix) Yusuke Morimoto S+ (better 3rd stage ability than Drew, but he's never getting any taller/faster) Yuuji Urushihara S (everything Yusuke is except a little weaker) Makoto Nagano S- (never tried too hard to be better than the other three, strong, great upper body and natural skill, used to be very agile)
*Rene Casselly A+ (potential to win, young, although not quite at his peak yet as seen on NW Germany. If/once he wins I'd peg him as above everybody else, but he's not there *yet*) Kouji Hashimoto A (overall I'd have to about tie him with Tada simply because he never proved himself after Sasuke Rising. Best rope climbing rookie on Stage 4 after Akiyama, tallish, had little physical problems ever besting Stages 1 and 3) Tada Tatsuya A (great upper body, a bit on the smaller side though and perhaps his 1st Stage prowess is enough to knock him down) Tomohiro Kawaguchi A (height plus 3rd stage ability raises him high, but never seen him excel on the Stage 4 rope) **Ryo Matachi A (great upper body skill and good rope climbing; sloppy, inconsistent, weak, and too small, but he actually has shown ability to have it in him to beat the likes of Sasuke 19's first stage. **Maybe he and some other small Stage 3 focused guys should be ranked lower though) *Keitaro Yamamoto A (he is very similar to Matachi, *in terms of potential only, otherwise he's lower) Jun Sato A- (have yet to see him prove he can surpass the third/fourth stage) *Araki - (*not sure where to put him, but he could be here or higher if he trained harder on Stage 1 type obstacles. Otherwise he's just a potential S3 powerhouse)
Hitoshi Kanno B+ (injuries and muscle weight hold him back at least some) Lee Enchi B+ Brent Steffensen B+ Kong Takahashi B+ *Asa Kazuma B+ (*he was such an inconsistently loose canon that he could be placed higher than this in the B+'s or lower than Okuyama. Not sure where to place him in the B+ category) Yoshiyuki Okuyama B+ Masashi Hioki B Nagasaki Shunsuke B Toshihiro Takeda B Bunpei Shiratori B Ishikawa Terukazu B Jessie Graff B- (Edit: She is very tall and powerful so I might come back to this again later. Forgot how good she is on ANW. Edit 2: Yeah, glanced at the list again and at best I'd put her to be maybe close to Ishikawa but not really above him much or at all) Suzuki Yusuke B- Yuuji Washimi B- Shingo Yamamoto B- Naoki Iketani B- (not too sure where to put him) Hiromichi Sato B- Darvish Kenji B- Mori Wataru B-
*Kazuhiko Akiyama C+ (*not sure where to put him. He was an amazing rope climber and on the 3rd Stage. I'm really just too gassed out to think of where to put him ultimately) Katsumi Yamada C+ Snowman C ABC-Z C Wakky C Kinnikun Nakayama C- Ohmori C-
Some of these especially as I got nearer toward the end felt somewhat hard to peg (a lot due in part to my lazy fatigue) but I certainly tried to rank each competitor holistically. Also if I say a competitor is a bit too small, it's usually because I tend to have overseas competitions with foreigners in mind.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jul 8, 2020 13:41:00 GMT -5
Also, I wouldn't put Jessie Graff in D either; even by general standards (not just for a woman) she's kicked a**. She's made it to Stage 3 2/2 times she's competed in SASUKE, and even completed Stage 2 in USA vs. the World and their Stage 2 is soooo much harder than Sasuke's. I didn't include her as she's only competed twice in Sasuke, but otherwise she'd defo be in B-tier at least, by my rankings. I did redo my ranks with some actual thought, but anyways: Hashimoto I believe was the most well rounded Japanese competitor who quit way too early. He had everything going for him and I think had he trained he would have been Japan's top competitor. For instance, dominated S26's Stage 1, had amazing S3 ability, and almost won as a S4 rookie in Sasuke 24 at 25 years old. Shingo's good, lovable, and will always be one of my favorite competitors to watch but he was never anything outstanding, especially on S3, and he's pretty sloppy. Jessie is very good and I might have to place her higher. I don't watch ANW to be fair so I don't know exactly how good she is on those types of obstacles, especially S1. For instance I couldn't see her clearing a course from the Shin Sasuke era (maybe 23-24) but I actually do think I now recall her getting far on ANW's 1st Stage. I also can't see her beating the CH.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 14:33:16 GMT -5
Most of these I agree with. A few comments: - I was gonna say Drew shouldn't be above Nagano but then I remembered he won ANW11, which was objectively harder than any Sasuke competition imo. - Rene it's hard to say because he hasn't competed much. You could argue that he got lucky in Sasuke 37 because he'd never made it past Stage 2 or 3 in three competitions of Ninja Warrior Germany, and don't forget he almost failed Stage 1 on the wall. - Ryo I put in B-tier just because he's horrifically inconsistent, in the same way that Kishimoto has huge potential but I'd put him in C-tier because of his awkward early Stage 1 fails. But with 2 final stage attempts I can see why you'd put him in A. - Keitaro I put in B-tier purely because he's never made it past Stage 2, otherwise in terms of pure potential he'd be higher as I know he can crush Stage 3 and even possibly 4. - Don't agree with putting Steffensen above Kong and Okuyama; he's strong but not that strong imo. - I put Nagasaki in A but honestly his recent tournaments have been so mediocre he should probs go in B lol. - With Iketani I put him in A just because he made Stage 3 six times and was constantly matching the performance of the All-Stars of the time, but I guess he could be in B as he never had a real shot at clearing Stage 3 (given that he did worse in every attempt). - I would've loved to put Darvish in C-tier but he has been doing quite well recently e.g. made Stage 3 in 36, came 6th overall in 35 - Akiyama and Yamada for me go in B-tier because of their Kanzen and near-Kanzen respectively, but I can see why you put them in C-tier. Akiyama's Kanzen was defo a fluke and Yamada I felt was overhyped purely because of his obsession with Sasuke, most of the time he couldn't get past Stage 2 in his hay day, and 16 consecutive Stage 1 fails speak for themselves. - Omori for me goes in B-tier; even tho the course was p*** easy back then, 3 final stage attempts can't be ignored imo, especially as no one trained on replica obstacles at the time.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jul 8, 2020 14:52:05 GMT -5
Perhaps too large a part (though certainly not all or even really a lot) of my rankings had to do with ability to beat S3 over S1/2 consistency/ability, but I still kind of stand by that. For example I would say someone inconsistent on S1 like Ryo is the better competitor over someone like Jun simply because Ryo has the stronger ability to win overall. Of course this implies Ryo *can* beat tough Stage 1's, and I think he has shown he can, and even on ANW he surprised many with his speed and lower body ability on obstacles like that Propeller Bar with that huge tramp.
Still, it's tough ranking like that. Ryo would likely be performing usually extremely poorly if Sasuke went back to big Shin era esque obstacles like ANW, while Jun wouldn't. So maybe I should change how I rank. Oh well, too much work.
I basically ranked based on what I can imagine relating to Stage 3/4 ability, Stage 1 ability (basically Sasuke 18-37), overseas ability, actual estimated record as far as I can remember, potential, etc. and I tried to rank competitors according to their peak abilities.
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Jul 8, 2020 15:14:23 GMT -5
I'm honestly surprised you put Shingo in B- tier considering the 2 major slumps he's had. At least he's slowly getting better. I would have put him in maybe... C+ at best and C- at worst. I still love the goofball but his runs are actual comedy shows these days.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 15:27:37 GMT -5
I only put Shingo in A because of his overall achievements, making Stage 3 11 times and making the Final twice, but if we're judging on Shin-Sasuke onwards then he's defo low B-tier bordering on C tier. In his last 20 competitions, he's cleared Stage 1 only 4 times, and made Stage 3 once. That's not too good going if you ask me.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jul 8, 2020 15:37:26 GMT -5
Yeah I took into consideration Pre-Shin Sasuke of course but I just feel like the show was too much easier back than compared to around 18 onward. Of course there are exceptions. As far as Shingo goes he was at his physical peak (early to mid 30s) since Shin Sasuke started and he never greatly excelled then. I don't really hold his recent fails against him as he's like 45 now, yes? After the early 40s I really don't judge one for bombing Japan's Stage 1.
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 16:25:08 GMT -5
Yeah I defo agree with you. Sometimes I honestly doubt Shingo's overall ability. A part of me feels like he was never that strong a competitor but only did well in the Nagano era due to the course being easier. His poor performance in Shin-Sasuke can't really be attributed to age as he was only like 33-34 at the time, just that he couldn't keep up with the rise in the difficulty of the course. Takeda on the other hand I think is a lot more adaptable, making Stage 3 in Shin-Sasuke on several occasions.
Yeah I agree about the age thing as well; it's defo a strong plus when someone makes like Stage 3 into their 40s; so far only Okuyama and Yuuji have done that. Yuichi Okada could've also made Stage 3 at age 41 in SASUKE 31, but for some reason he let pride get the better of him by trying to lift all the walls over his head so he timed out....
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Jul 8, 2020 16:32:18 GMT -5
Failing the first obstacle in general especially someone as well rounded as a SASUKE all star is a cause for concern... Shingo can be an idiot. Takeda too if he decides to imitate the idiot before him.
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 16:38:59 GMT -5
I've always thought the All-Stars are overrated, except for maybe Takeda and Nagano. It also says a lot when 4/6 of them have failed the first obstacle before (if you include Yamada's guest run on SASUKE 36).
As much as I love Shingo's personality, he's infamous for making the most dumb errors, like his trampoline fails, falling off the Half-Pipe Attack bridge TWICE, almost drowning himself twice, the list goes on.... people laugh at Nagasaki's fails recently but Shingo is No. 1 when it comes to this.
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Jul 8, 2020 16:50:02 GMT -5
His personality honestly is the man reason why I still hope for success.
I agree with the other rankings I feel.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jul 8, 2020 16:53:01 GMT -5
I think Shingo is very good (he's often faster than both Takeda and Nagano), but he mentally was not there during Shin Sasuke and even now. He fails obstacles he shouldn't (Double Pendulum, Half-Pipe Attack) and I really think it's mental. He's also on the big side for Japanese men on the show so it never shocked me that like Takeda he was never godly on Stage 3.
Takeda on the other hand is one of the best Stage 1 challengers ever, but he just couldn't find success on Stage 3. I remember Nagano telling him he would overthink the obstacles (I believe he said that during Sasuke 21 actually). I also think he was just more built for speed and lower body like Shingo. Nagano on the other hand was highly well rounded.
I think the All Stars were very good overall but they (them at their peak age) simply are outclassed nowadays because the bar is a lot higher now. They were the guinea pigs for the first decade and a half of the show, and their fans took their place on a course that has been getting harder and more technical (at least Stage 3). If Shingo, Takeda, Nagano, Shitatori and even Akiyama were youngish again I could only see them not excelling today simply because you have to religiously train for Sasuke to stand a chance at S3 nowadays. I mean they could but those guys were a different breed of men who actually had jobs and kids (things MANY of the good competitors don't have today and if they do, they're highly limited). We just live in different times. They didn't train as hard back then.
There were guys who were highly arguably better than the All Stars back then who were the same age, except maybe Nagano, though. Okuyama and Kong come to mind.
Also no matter their ranking people liked and still like the All Stars the most because they had character. There is not as much personality with the new kids on the block. They don't wear uniforms, they don't have notable jobs, we don't see their interactions and signs of affection filmed off of the course anymore... Some of them I like but it's definitely not the same.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 17:07:00 GMT -5
I disagree with the jobs thing. A lot of the Morimoto Sedai have professional careers. Araki is a car designer, Keitaro a teacher, Morimoto a software engineer and so on. In fact I'd say they have far more surprising careers than the All-Stars, most of whom had careers related to physical fitness, like Takeda being a firefighter and Akiyama and Nagano being fisherman etc. And we all know Yamada's job situation; the only person who I'd say has given up prospects for SASUKE is Kanno, which is sad because he's not doing that well these days.
And yeah a lot of the non-All-Star strong competitors from the Nagano era were sort of forgotten because the show was defo centered around those 6 guys... like Shinji Kobayashi, Professor Asaoka, Iketani, Nakata etc.
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 17:10:05 GMT -5
I think the All-Stars are quite hit and miss with regards to the character thing. Shingo and Nagano defo have huge character, Takeda too... Shiratori wasn't really there long enough to make an impact. Akiyama's well known because of his Kanzen; Yamada I personally think has quite a selfish and dislikable character but that's just me, at least he did when he was competing.
I agree that there are so many good competitors these days that a lot of them get digested so we don't really get to see their character. But we had people like Asa, Anastase, Darvish (even if I don't particularly like him), Tomo, Drew etc. I'd say the crowd of notable competitors is far more diverse and interesting than it used to be, even if they don't match the group culture of the All-Stars.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jul 8, 2020 17:29:50 GMT -5
I disagree with the jobs thing. A lot of the Morimoto Sedai have professional careers. Araki is a car designer, Keitaro a teacher, Morimoto a software engineer and so on. In fact I'd say they have far more surprising careers than the All-Stars, most of whom had careers related to physical fitness, like Takeda being a firefighter and Akiyama and Nagano being fisherman etc. And we all know Yamada's job situation; the only person who I'd say has given up prospects for SASUKE is Kanno, which is sad because he's not doing that well these days. And yeah a lot of the non-All-Star strong competitors from the Nagano era were sort of forgotten because the show was defo centered around those 6 guys... like Shinji Kobayashi, Professor Asaoka, Iketani, Nakata etc. That is true but for a lot of the competitors now their jobs are a mystery to me. Ryo? Is he a plumber or a painter or something. I honestly don't know Kanno makes jewelry I think and other than that was like a custodian. Him and Ryo were unemployed for some time at least. Tomo designs shoes but that has only been for the last few years. What did he do before that? No idea what the Black Tigers do. I know one of them worked at Sega. I guess you're right. Maybe G4 reminding me the job of every All Star and competitor when I watched on TV over and over again gave me a different impression back then! I guess I don't have much knowledge of the really current generation.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jul 8, 2020 17:39:39 GMT -5
You're right about Ryo and Kanno; Tomohiro used to be a truck driver before becoming director of Per-Adra. I wouldn't say any competitor I've known recently to actively give up their career for Sasuke, except for Kanno I think. Nagasaki also works for a removals firm as well as teaching trampolining.
But the newest era of competitors (like the guys in their 20s who are coming up) are all smart kids (Araki and Keitaro went to Keio University which is one of the highest ranked universities in Japan) who just happen to be Sasuke geeks from a young age, hence why a lot of them first competed when they were 14-15. Jun Sato is a parkour teacher; that's the only profession that I think is actually related to physical fitness, he studied somewhere in the UK actually lol.
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