In their prime, who's best: Nagano, Morimoto, Yuuji, or Drew

[m4tt3r0x]

I was originally making a thread that was going to ask people to list their top 10 Sasuke competitors, based on "in-prime" performances only. So something like it being based on runs from age 25-35, or just competitors' best run streaks in general, going by what you deem fit. Basically asking who would be the best if you put, for example, modern day Drew up against a Sasuke 17 Nagano, or asking if Morimoto or Drew is better currently. The thing is, I personally couldn't choose my top 4, between the four dudes you see in the title there. I did come down to an order for the champions EVENTUALLY, but I couldn't decide where the hell to place Drew.

I know it's hard and maybe not best to rank guys like this, but I find it stimulating to think about. Just pretend like you have a gun to your head and HAVE to do it. Also, I know one could easily argue Morimoto hasn't reached his "prime" yet, but just go based off of his recent performances alone.

The language I use in the following paragraph implies all of the champions are in their prime in the present tense:

I believe the easy choice is to have Nagano edge out Yuuji and Morimoto, but even though Nagano has some insane iron grip, I think Yuuji and Morimoto have him beat in this category due to their conditioning alone. However, Nagano is definitely the fastest of the three, and always effortlessly so (Yuuji's really fast, but it doesn't seem all too natural). I also don't think the current Yusuke would out perform Nagano or Yuuji on a shin Sasuke style first stage. But Yusuke is definitely the best on Stage 4...

Because this is so close, I'll just break this down into categories then, and the order of points will determine it (in order of first to last listed in each category, 3, 2 or 1 points is given, and 1.5 if there is a tie). I'm not trying to cherry pick here either:
A. Grip/Upper Body: Morimoto/Yuuji/Nagano
B. Speed/Agility: Nagano/Yuuji/Morimoto
C. Power: Nagano/Morimoto/Yuuji
D. Stamina: Morimoto (based on his Stage 4 performance)/Yuuji/Nagano
E. Wins: Yuuji/Nagano-Morimoto
F. Consistency: Nagano/Yuuji-Morimoto (Morimoto hasn't been around long enough for me to call this last one with him)

So I place Nagano first, Morimoto second, and Yuuji third.

3. Yuuji Urishihara
2. Yusuke Morimoto
1. Makoto Nagano

Where does Drew fit here? I think he wins in every category except A, D, and E... but I'm not sure. I'd like to see how he does compared to Yusuke in 34, but if I had to vote, I think I'd end up choosing Drew (and I originally intended on having him being 4th on my list).

Anybody else have an opinion on this?

[LusitaniaAngel313]

I feel Nagano has this one based off of SASUKE 9 going on (of course with hiccups because he is human). SASUKE 11-13 final stage. No question. His prime I feel ended on 23 on his last final stage.
Yuuji's prime started in 22 but ended early in 28 I think. Since then the 2nd or 1st stage has pretty much eaten him.
Yusuke's prime I feel starts in 29 but is STILL GOING. He could very well edge out Yuuji.
Drew is inhuman.

[arsenette]

I always get heat for this but I don't see why Drew is listed alongside champions. Drew to me is closer to Toshihiro Takeda. Takeda was the most consistent and current record holder of the most 3rd stage appearances (for both Sasuke and ANW) but never even touched the final. Drew is in the exact category but still has a few more years to go to catch up to Takeda in that department. Both dominated in their prime (same age too) and everyone swore they'd beat the Final if they got there but they haven't (Drew hasn't so far but still has time while Takeda is admittedly not). So I'm always baffled why Drew is in the same breath as the champions. So I won't even list him in there.

My ranking
1. Nagano
2. Morimoto
3. Yuuji

Btw Matty.. Morimoto has been around Sasuke longer than Yuuji so I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. LOL TBS hasn't always shown him but he has been on the show for far longer but he was still just a kid. Yuuji's 10 years older than Morimoto.

[ArbuthnotBlob]

Hmm, I prevaricated back and forth on this a lot, but had to give it to Nagano in the end.

His prime runs (which really can be as large a span as 9 - 23) are mostly so precise/seemingly effortless in execution that I don't think the others quite match him. Not to mention his 5 final stage appearances, which is the highest clear rate by a decent margin. And his blistering performance on Viking 2 in the same time frame. I'd tout him as probably the most balanced competitor in SASUKE history.

Yuuji is good, and his 2-time championship cannot be ignored (thanks TBS), but he tends to buckle under pressure a bit, and definitely had a much shorter span of prime competitions (22-27?) I still think he can do well in 34, so I'm hoping he has a bit of a renaissance now that he's training with purpose.

Morimoto is definitely still in his prime (29 - current), so it's harder to compare him to the others, and I think he could even match (or surpass!) Nagano if he continues at his current pace. He's definitely the current competitor who comes closest to giving that same sense of ease which Nagano had on SASUKE.

Drew is also currently in his prime (30 - current), and a very high-level competitor, given his Rolling Hill save in 30? 31?? and his passing of the motorised UCCH. However, as Arsenette pointed out, he's far more analogous to Takeda, being an incredibly solid competitor who hasn't made the final stage (yet). Again, I'm really hoping he pulls something huge out of the bag in 34, as he's really close to having the current Stage 3 nailed.

[SRW]

Nagano anyone who says anything else is ignorant to the legend.

Morimotos prime is still in progress it's hard to compare between him and Yuuji until his prime ends.

Drew is getting overrated by fanboys all over his 32 run I feel. Very strong competitor but we will talk when 1 he reaches the Final stage and 2 he actually beats it.

[m4tt3r0x]

Sept 17, 2017 6:41:55 GMT -5 arsenette said:

I always get heat for this but I don't see why Drew is listed alongside champions. Drew to me is closer to Toshihiro Takeda. Takeda was the most consistent and current record holder of the most 3rd stage appearances (for both Sasuke and ANW) but never even touched the final. Drew is in the exact category but still has a few more years to go to catch up to Takeda in that department. Both dominated in their prime (same age too) and everyone swore they'd beat the Final if they got there but they haven't (Drew hasn't so far but still has time while Takeda is admittedly not). So I'm always baffled why Drew is in the same breath as the champions. So I won't even list him in there.

My ranking
1. Nagano
2. Morimoto
3. Yuuji

Btw Matty.. Morimoto has been around Sasuke longer than Yuuji so I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. LOL TBS hasn't always shown him but he has been on the show for far longer but he was still just a kid. Yuuji's 10 years older than Morimoto.

I don't know what I was thinking there. I guess my brain was grouping modern day Morimoto separately from kid Morimoto lol. Regardless, I still don't think we've seen enough of the current Morimoto.

As for your link between Takeda and Drew, I definitely see it and was originally thinking the same thing (I was going to put Takeda at #5 and Drew at #4). I guess I think that if you put today's Drew on any of the courses the recent champions beat, he'd either match it or do better -- in theory anyway, of course anybody is prone to mistakes. Then it comes down to whether one should even do this or not, as obviously a hypothetical like this would imply a lot of things Drew would have to do training wise first.

[arsenette]

Yep! I gotcha

Drew's crazy good and has been for a couple of years on every show he's touched. Ever since he broke his leg he's tripled his training and the result is what we see today. I still think he can breakthrough and win but until he does he doesn't belong in a list alongside people who already did it. I'd put Geoff in this list since he was the only one to have a perfect season and left because the show became political/reality show. I would have loved to see Geoff dominate Sasuke. I am of the opinion he would have won 32 if it was taped in June when he was slated to participate. I'm still bitter about that..

[jba392]

You can really only compare a competitor relative to the time in which they compete. Drew isn't a champion yet, but the other three are. I do think present-day Drew would/could achieve total victory in any of the tournaments where the other three did, but present-day Drew can only be evaluated based on his current accomplishments (hopefully that made sense). Based on that, Drew doesn't stack up to these guys...yet. If he achieves Total Victory soon, which feels almost inevitable (though nothing is guaranteed), he's right up there. Geoff and Isaac would be better inclusions to this ranking, though they are also tough to evaluate since they both had extremely short careers.

1. Nagano (unprecedented sustained excellence)
2. Morimoto
3. Yuuji
4. Drew

[PsychoDelusion]

I'll be as simple as it gets

1)Nagano - Effortless runs, always made the bloody thing look so easy
2)Morimoto - Not as gifted as Nagano, but still pretty good
3)Yuuji - Good but sloppy as hell
4)Drechsel - If he reaches the final stage, he could move up to P2

[wolf4537]

As much as I want to say Drew, I would honestly go with Nagano. His runs were simply amazing, given the obstacles he was faced with at the time they came out. Granted, there were some obstacles that were crazy difficult when they first came out that even Nagano couldn't pass, but he was always extremely good at adapting to most obstacles.

[blah123]

Most graceful, made the course look like a playground, the most overall-gifted athlete: Nagano
Strictly speaking shear strength-to-mass ratio, ability to beat current Stage 3: Yuuji
Kind of a mix of those 2: Morimoto

[Eclipse]

Sept 17, 2017 6:41:55 GMT -5 arsenette said:

I always get heat for this but I don't see why Drew is listed alongside champions. Drew to me is closer to Toshihiro Takeda. Takeda was the most consistent and current record holder of the most 3rd stage appearances (for both Sasuke and ANW) but never even touched the final. Drew is in the exact category but still has a few more years to go to catch up to Takeda in that department. Both dominated in their prime (same age too) and everyone swore they'd beat the Final if they got there but they haven't (Drew hasn't so far but still has time while Takeda is admittedly not). So I'm always baffled why Drew is in the same breath as the champions. So I won't even list him in there.

My ranking
1. Nagano
2. Morimoto
3. Yuuji

For the sake of discussion I am going to explain a rebuttal the this, but my ranking is the same as yours so this certainly isn't a call out of opinions.

I think the reason people would give you heat for this is based on the assumption that Champions are objectively better than consistent Stage 3ers. That may be the case for the above 3, but I cannot say as a blanket statement that is correct. Drew is one of the best non-champions, and I don't understand the notion that listing good competitors alongside, so I don't see a harm in comparison as long as it tried to be objective.

I would likely rank Drew 4th in the OPs question, HOWEVER, if Akiyama was included, I could not feel justified putting Akiyama about Drew or several other current competitors in fact, simply because he is a champion.

This is not discrediting Akiyama's win in any way, but I cannot objectively place him as being above other competitors even at his peak.

If global shows count, the same applies to David Campbell's victory. Is he a Vietnamese Ninja Warrior champion? Sure is. But would I rate his peak above Drew? Well, no I don't think so.

So to more or less sum this up, yes I'd rank Drew as fourth, it's more the notion that Champions cannot be compared to good competitors that I don't agree with.

But also to reply to MattyRox, if you're making this comparison, there are other people to consider. Geoff and Le Van Thuc I would certainly rate above Drew. Basically, those 4 competitors may not be objectively the 4 best competitors and in the sense the original question is a bit opinionated.

[arsenette]

Sept 19, 2017 12:53:51 GMT -5 Eclipse said:

Sept 17, 2017 6:41:55 GMT -5 arsenette said:

I always get heat for this but I don't see why Drew is listed alongside champions. Drew to me is closer to Toshihiro Takeda. Takeda was the most consistent and current record holder of the most 3rd stage appearances (for both Sasuke and ANW) but never even touched the final. Drew is in the exact category but still has a few more years to go to catch up to Takeda in that department. Both dominated in their prime (same age too) and everyone swore they'd beat the Final if they got there but they haven't (Drew hasn't so far but still has time while Takeda is admittedly not). So I'm always baffled why Drew is in the same breath as the champions. So I won't even list him in there.

My ranking
1. Nagano
2. Morimoto
3. Yuuji

For the sake of discussion I am going to explain a rebuttal the this, but my ranking is the same as yours so this certainly isn't a call out of opinions.

I think the reason people would give you heat for this is based on the assumption that Champions are objectively better than consistent Stage 3ers. That may be the case for the above 3, but I cannot say as a blanket statement that is correct. Drew is one of the best non-champions, and I don't understand the notion that listing good competitors alongside, so I don't see a harm in comparison as long as it tried to be objective.

I would likely rank Drew 4th in the OPs question, HOWEVER, if Akiyama was included, I could not feel justified putting Akiyama about Drew or several other current competitors in fact, simply because he is a champion.

This is not discrediting Akiyama's win in any way, but I cannot objectively place him as being above other competitors even at his peak.

If global shows count, the same applies to David Campbell's victory. Is he a Vietnamese Ninja Warrior champion? Sure is. But would I rate his peak above Drew? Well, no I don't think so.

So to more or less sum this up, yes I'd rank Drew as fourth, it's more the notion that Champions cannot be compared to good competitors that I don't agree with.

But also to reply to MattyRox, if you're making this comparison, there are other people to consider. Geoff and Le Van Thuc I would certainly rate above Drew. Basically, those 4 competitors may not be objectively the 4 best competitors and in the sense the original question is a bit opinionated.

My rebuttal is still the same. He's Takeda. And even compared to Takeda Drew is still short by a few years. Really puts into perspective the extreme consistency of Takeda in the way Joe is consistent in ANW.

Also, yes the champions are that much better as they managed to get to all 4 stages when others have not. This applies to ANW as well so no I don't agree with your assessment that anyone (Drew, David or otherwise) were better in their prime in Sasuke Japan. Champions are lauded for a reason - they did something others have yet to do. 4 men in Sasuke and 2 in ANW out of thousands of attempts in both shows. Drew, David, Takeda and even Joe are just a few of many great competitors that have failed to even get to the final in Sasuke (which is the point of this thread and where this is located on the board). As a result they should not be part of the conversation talking about champions.

Edit: It would be fair to put Akiyama last in the list. At least he did something Yamada hasn't. Akiyama was crazy powerful and if he were blessed with better eyesight he would have won multiple times. Even by Nagano's admission, Akiyama was far better than anyone who ever did the course. Shame life didn't help him in that regard.

[Eclipse]

Sept 19, 2017 13:01:05 GMT -5 arsenette said:

My rebuttal is still the same. He's Takeda. And even compared to Takeda Drew is still short by a few years. Really puts into perspective the extreme consistency of Takeda in the way Joe is consistent in ANW.

Yes I would agree with this assessment wholly

Sept 19, 2017 13:01:05 GMT -5 arsenette said:

Also, yes the champions are that much better as they managed to get to all 4 stages when others have not. This applies to ANW as well so no I don't agree with your assessment that anyone (Drew, David or otherwise) were better in their prime in Sasuke Japan. Champions are lauded for a reason - they did something others have yet to do. 4 men in Sasuke and 2 in ANW out of thousands of attempts in both shows.

For me it is partially placing them in other scenarios. If I placed Drew mentally in Sasuke 17, 24, 27 or 31 could I say with a high amount of certainty he would win or even get to Stage 4? Absolutely not, and that is why I do completely agree with your list. If I mentally placed Drew in Sasuke 4 could I say he would win? I would say highly likely, given Sasuke 4 was still the early days, which is why I could potentially place him above Akiyama given his other good stage 3 runs.

In rebuttal to myself, if I placed prime Akiyama in a newer course, he could have also exceeded expectations and disprove this theory.

Sept 19, 2017 13:01:05 GMT -5 arsenette said:

Drew, David, Takeda and even Joe are just a few of many great competitors that have failed to even get to the final. As a result they should not be part of the conversation talking about champions.

Now I understand, this is the core of why I disagreed with your approach. When I read the original question, I didn't see it as "Is Drew on par with the champions" as much as "Given these 4 competitors, rank them" where 3 happened to be Champions, but adding more people or swapping them out for non champions would not fundamentally change the question. So should Drew be compared to Champions: No, I agree with you. Could Drew be Compared against the Champions as per the question in this thread: yes, as I don't believe this thread is about Champions specifically, but from an objective standpoint he would be last.

If this list were expanded to all competitors at their prime, Drew would probably not be in the Top 10 (but Top 20 maybe)

Sept 19, 2017 13:01:05 GMT -5 arsenette said:

Edit: It would be fair to put Akiyama last in the list. At least he did something Yamada hasn't. Akiyama was crazy powerful and if he were blessed with better eyesight he would have won multiple times. Even by Nagano's admission, Akiyama was far better than anyone who ever did the course. Shame life didn't help him in that regard.

I did not know that about Akiyama, so I learned something new. As for Yamada I would rather objectively say he was actually quite low on the list. Yes he got to Stage 4, but as harder obstacles got added, it became clear he was nearly peaked out in his ability with the Sasuke 1-4 courses and he could not keep up, whereas someone like Nagano was already capable of clearing new, harder obstacles post Sasuke 17

[arsenette]

Tehehehe this is why I love discussions on the subject. ♥

Yeah, Akiyama was scary good and so many people who met him and saw him in his prime always said "damn.. if he wasn't blind.. watch out..". I mean even blind he was part of the Self Defense Force. LOL He's fearless! His problem though (especially at the end) is that he trained almost all upper body and very little lower body (a critique Nagano gave a few years ago of his friend). He's always a case study on the tenacity of the human spirit and why he will always remain my favorite.

Drew is special because he trains everything. TBH it's only a matter of time until he does win IMO. I could do without the cockiness but frankly a lot of ANW fit this mold and is part of the younger culture (waves my cane in the air "get off my lawn" ) I wish the old 3rd stagers from ANW had a crack at Sasuke again but sadly that's never going to happen. I often wondered how Kasemir, Campbell, etc. would have done if they continued to go back to Sasuke uninterrupted. I'm sure the course would have looked far different under Higuchi and the onslaught of the American team. I knew most of the Japanese guys were terrified of becoming obsolete next to them.. But that's another thread. HA!

[LusitaniaAngel313]

Sept 19, 2017 13:31:03 GMT -5 arsenette said:

Drew is special because he trains everything. TBH it's only a matter of time until he does win IMO. I could do without the cockiness but frankly a lot of ANW fit this mold and is part of the younger culture (waves my cane in the air "get off my lawn" ) I knew most of the Japanese guys were terrified of becoming obsolete next to them..

This is exactly my feelings of the Americans. I can live with them in the ANW format since really everyone does it and Drew is just good! But in SASUKE it's too much. I also share Team Japan's feelings with them worrying about being obsolete against them. Yikes... But honestly I really do like this thread and how it's taken off. And it seems we all share the same ideas more or less.

[SRW]

I don't mind if drew beats ANW hope he does good luck to him but I don't really want to see a American beat SASUKE.

[jba392]

Sept 19, 2017 17:15:43 GMT -5 SRW said:

I don't mind if drew beats ANW hope he does good luck to him but I don't really want to see a American beat SASUKE.

That just reeks of insecurity. I would love if Yusuke were able to compete in ANW and clear all four stages because I like watching great athletes accomplish great feats. 

[Klorel439]

Sept 19, 2017 17:15:43 GMT -5 SRW said:

but I don't really want to see a American beat SASUKE.

Why though? Shouldn't matter if he's American or not. 

[SasukeForever]

Just to me, Yuuji because I doubt the 2x kanzenseiha will ever be achieved again, or at least anytime soon.

Sept 17, 2017 7:35:36 GMT -5 SRW said:

Nagano anyone who says anything else is ignorant to the legend.

What a shocker, Steven picks Nagano