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Post by blah123 on Jul 13, 2015 14:46:15 GMT -5
 Just curious, why? The broadcast aired 2 weeks ago. Millions of people have seen it. There are recordings of it if you look hard enough. As far as I'm concerned, people are at liberty to openly discuss it. If it is considered spoilery to discuss 31 right now, why isn't it also spoilery to discuss 1-30? What is the "cutoff" date at which a tournament becomes not-spoilery, if it's not its airdate? I could see the argument as the date for which the tournament is aired on G4 as Ninja Warrior, but that doesn't happen anymore. To people that disagree, I suggest you not look in the "SASUKE 31" area of this forum (to which you have to be logged in to even see in the first place, so it's not like you're going to just happen to end up here from a Google search or something). |
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Eclipse
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Post by Eclipse on Jul 13, 2015 15:01:21 GMT -5
Just curious, why? The broadcast aired 2 weeks ago. Millions of people have seen it. There are recordings of it if you look hard enough. As far as I'm concerned, people are at liberty to openly discuss it. If it is considered spoilery to discuss 31 right now, why isn't it also spoilery to discuss 1-30? What is the "cutoff" date at which a tournament becomes not-spoilery, if it's not its airdate? I could see the argument as the date for which the tournament is aired on G4 as Ninja Warrior, but that doesn't happen anymore. To people that disagree, I suggest you not look in the "SASUKE 31" area of this forum (to which you have to be logged in to even see in the first place, so it's not like you're going to just happen to end up here from a Google search or something). This forum has a very high concentration of people who are huge fans of the series, and therefore you are far more likely to encounter someone who wants to see the newest episode but hasn't yet. Not everyone has open schedules to watch a 4 hour program as soon as it is out. There are also people who don't want spoilers no matter what. For example, the last Harry Potter has been out for years, but that doesn't mean I now have the right to spoil it for new fans, or people who haven't seen the ending yet, just because some time has passed. It isn't a matter of how much time has passed, it's a matter of respecting the others in your community. If you go back into the forum board for say, Sasuke 22, the boards are still tagged with spoiler warnings and such for revealing content. I have not yet seen Sasuke 22, so I appreciate this. If new fans join the community 4 months from now, they should have the courtesy to check the boards for any episode that has aired and not have their experience ruined by spoilers. |
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Post by TCM on Jul 13, 2015 17:25:18 GMT -5
Basically what bananarealm said. Millions have likely seen it, but this forum only has a couple thousand, and not all of them are from Japan. Just because I may see likes on here or on Facebook, doesn't mean that those people have rushed to find where it is and watch it. These aren't policies that are brand new designed to catch and curtail people; they've been around for years. I myself took 3-4 days to watch a New Japan Pro Wrestling event that happened on the 5th and made sure outside of one instance (that I willingly saw) that I didn't know anything about the event. I've never watched Orange is the New Black, but I probably will at some point. In the meantime, I don't want people mentioning it around me without asking whether I've seen it. When will that be? I don't know, I don't have regular access to a Netflix account, nor am I that much of a binge watcher to begin with except with mindless reality competitions and even then, I have a limit.
It was our mistake (Staff) that there wasn't a timely reminder of the policy this time around. The most recent variant of the policy (embargo lifted at the end of the start of taping of the next one) has been around since 2012. Only now (to my immediate recollection) has there seemed to be a minority of posts adverse to it. But it has worked, with a few exceptions, but that's to be expected. It's the nature of the Internet when discussing television.
As bananarealm was referring to, it's about consideration for those (active or occasional posters, invisible log ins or not, lurkers or regular posters) who don't have the privilege many of us have to see it live, or take the time to view it right away via other means. Personal responsibility goes both ways: you should make sure, if you don't want to be spoiled, to refrain from being in areas with a tendency for spoilers. But if you are privy to such information about the broadcast, you should mark your discussions accordingly so that those people don't accidentally stumble upon something they didn't want to know about. Keeping everything to one board helps with that. The forum is not as negatively impacted by keeping spoilers in one place for the most part as say, drama causing users to slow their activity or stop it altogether or people just no longer interested in the forum itself whether due to changing times or real life absorbing time.
It does not stop your world to be a little more considerate to other users. Like you said, it's been two weeks. 8-10 or so months from now? Easier to assume it's safer to talk about, even if it will be OK after a month. My two best friends knew after a year of being together that they were going to get married, but it was much better seeing him officially propose to her (without her knowledge of when) after his graduation last month despite the fact I and others knew well before that.
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Post by Miko on Jul 13, 2015 20:07:09 GMT -5
:DDDDDDDDDDDDD
Let me tell you about a simple rule.
If the show has aired on TV, you are able to speak about it in show's own board without spoiler-tags or spoiler-warnings.
How hard is it to get one simple rule, instead of being such an idiots and give stupid arguments like "well not everybody has seen it yet'? Well, no s***. If you are that stupid enough to open Sasuke 31 board (even you haven't seen it yet) which is full of discussion about it, you deserve to get spoiled.
This forum has many other rules that are unclever, stupid and pointless, but i am not going to talk about them now. But this rule that you still do have to use spoiler tags and spoiler-warnings in Sasuke 31 board even it has aired like 2 weeks ago is just a stupid.
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Eclipse
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Post by Eclipse on Jul 13, 2015 21:54:16 GMT -5
:DDDDDDDDDDDDD Let me tell you about a simple rule. If the show has aired on TV, you are able to speak about it in show's own board without spoiler-tags or spoiler-warnings. How hard is it to get one simple rule, instead of being such an idiots and give stupid arguments like "well not everybody has seen it yet'? Well, no s***. If you are that stupid enough to open Sasuke 31 board (even you haven't seen it yet) which is full of discussion about it, you deserve to get spoiled. This forum has many other rules that are unclever, stupid and pointless, but i am not going to talk about them now. But this rule that you still do have to use spoiler tags and spoiler-warnings in Sasuke 31 board even it has aired like 2 weeks ago is just a stupid. If you read the original post, he's asking you to put spoilers in the thread titles. If a thread is called "X did Y well is season Z", then it will show up on the main forum index if it the thread with the most recent posts, therefore spreading spoilers outside of the Sasuke 31 board. Also, in the case of many forums, one of the biggest complaints is actually that lack of spoiler filtering. |
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 13, 2015 22:03:46 GMT -5
Point is simple. This is a community that has been around for 7 years and have functioned with no problems because generally people respect each other's company. The new crop of people have no interest in actually playing nice and respecting other people's viewing habits. This is far from the only place to discuss Sasuke. As far as I'm concerned if someone is not willing to adhere to the simple rule that are actually "common courtesy" then you are in the wrong place. No one is forcing you to come here. If you can't respect other people then you don't belong here.
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Post by Miko on Jul 14, 2015 2:10:48 GMT -5
 "No one is forcing you to come here" "If you can't respect, go away" These kind of arguments give me a no chance. You can always live in your own wonderland if you can't accept a truth. I'm done for good. |
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Post by blah123 on Jul 14, 2015 7:11:43 GMT -5
I think this is a fine discussion to be had, and it's good to see the reasoning behind these rules/guidelines because they are not obvious or intuitive. I definitely agree with the whole common-courtesy aspect. And the spoiler-tags-until-next-tournament-airs seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. However, to play devil's advocate, I have not seen season 5 of The Walking Dead yet. Does that mean I should dive deep into the TWD forums for whatever info months after season 5 has aired, and expect not to see a single spoiler? Probably not. If I did, shame on me, and not on anyone else.
Another thing.. lets be careful about the "if you don't like it, you can leave" attitude, and instead just explain things. That was the main reason I started this topic -- so people can clarify the rules/guidelines to those of us that might disagree with them. Lets keep it to that.
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Post by TCM on Jul 14, 2015 9:01:02 GMT -5
There's a difference between fair points like you were using, and just using an area to be all "rawr you're stupid" like miksush. The discussion was fine before he brought in an argument without thought and passive aggressive-ism.
The problem is that with the format Proboards use, it can be easy to simply look at the side and see what threads are most active without taking the time to notice what individual board that thread is a part of. That can and does happen, just from experience of being on other Proboards sites in the past, not just this one. If it's preemptively marked beforehand, hopefully that person notices.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 9:05:06 GMT -5
It's not about "diving deep." When you go to the front page of SMF, and see the link for the Sasuke 31 thread, it shows you the thread that was most recently updated. If that thread has a title like "Yuusuke Morimoto's Kanzenseiha," that spoils the tournament for someone who hasn't seen it yet. People who haven't seen the tournament yet might be coming here to check out General Sasuke or the ANW threads. They're avoiding the Sasuke 31 thread because they haven't had a chance to watch it yet. That's why we avoid putting spoilers in the title of the thread.
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Post by TCM on Jul 14, 2015 9:51:32 GMT -5
It's not about "diving deep." When you go to the front page of SMF, and see the link for the Sasuke 31 thread, it shows you the thread that was most recently updated. If that thread has a title like "Yuusuke Morimoto's Kanzenseiha," that spoils the tournament for someone who hasn't seen it yet. People who haven't seen the tournament yet might be coming here to check out General Sasuke or the ANW threads. They're avoiding the Sasuke 31 thread because they haven't had a chance to watch it yet. That's why we avoid putting spoilers in the title of the thread. Exactly. To use a former mod's wording: "Yusuke Morimoto's Run" is not a spoiler. "Yusuke Morimoto's Kanzenseiha" is a spoiler. Not putting spoilers in thread titles has been a rule since Sasuke 21 here. |
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Eclipse
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Post by Eclipse on Jul 14, 2015 10:41:32 GMT -5
I think this is a fine discussion to be had, and it's good to see the reasoning behind these rules/guidelines because they are not obvious or intuitive. I definitely agree with the whole common-courtesy aspect. And the spoiler-tags-until-next-tournament-airs seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. However, to play devil's advocate, I have not seen season 5 of The Walking Dead yet. Does that mean I should dive deep into the TWD forums for whatever info months after season 5 has aired, and expect not to see a single spoiler? Probably not. If I did, shame on me, and not on anyone else. Another thing.. lets be careful about the "if you don't like it, you can leave" attitude, and instead just explain things. That was the main reason I started this topic -- so people can clarify the rules/guidelines to those of us that might disagree with them. Lets keep it to that. Just to test your theory, I went and checked out the Walking Dead forums. I'm not as far through the show as you are, and I was actually impressed by how clean their thread titles were. I went through boards for many of the new episodes and spoilers weren't really an issue. They have a forum specifically for spoilers as well, and the rest of the site follows these: " SPOILER RULESWe respect our members right not to be exposed to spoilers for unreleased or newly released material. Read these rules carefully, because posts that contain inappropriate spoilers may be removed or altered at the discretion of the moderators and/or admins. What is a Spoiler? A "spoiler" is an advance revelation of critical plot elements in a book, film, television show, or other form of entertainment media. Spoilers typically include information which readers, viewers, and listeners would be surprised by, if they had a chance to allow the plot to unfold naturally. For some people, this advance information can spoil an experience, hence the slang term “spoiler” to refer to such information. Spoiler Rules 1. Spoilers MUST NEVER appear in the title of a thread 2. Threads with visible spoilers MUST USE a spoiler tag 3. All threads that are about spoilers MUST GO in the spoiler forum " |
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Post by blah123 on Jul 14, 2015 11:45:20 GMT -5
I'm not debating how we should handle spoilers, whether or not to put spoilers in titles, other mechanics of proboards, etc. I'm asking we clarify what exactly is a spoiler in the first place. ...We respect our members right not to be exposed to spoilers for unreleased or newly released material... This is where the debate arises. Some people might define "newly released material" as material that has aired on the east coast but not yet on the west coast. Others might say it's material that is < 1 year old. Others might say it's material that has aired, period. Etc. I vote we agree that Sasuke N is "newly released material" until Sasuke N+1 has aired. This seems like a reasonable rule of thumb to me. But I know some people would disagree. I also vote we respect those peoples' opinions and not give them the "get the &#%@ out of here!" treatment; rather, explain to them the justifications behind what we constitute as newly released material, and I'm sure they'd understand. |
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 14, 2015 13:31:37 GMT -5
There has been a vote on what constitutes a spoiler, timeline and whatnot. We don't need another one. This is why I said what I said that this is a 7 year old board that is already established. Only this new crop of people have been the problem as everyone else that has come to the tournament have been respectful thusfar. We've done 11 tournaments of Sasuke in a row along with other events including ANW. Nothing is more frustrating then opening up the board and seeing 3 duplicate threads one behind each other simply because they didn't bother to read the thread right below theirs. The rules are there because of issues that have come up in the 7 years of our existence. Ya'll make it sound like we are new or something. And I still say it, if you don't like our rules you don't have to be here. If you can't abide by them and play nice with everyone else I'm sure you won't like being around us anyway. If you continue to not be nice with everyone and actually respect each other's company I'm sure you will be booted soon for not abiding by the simple rules. Others have met the boot as well. Mods are volunteers and are not babysitters so don't abuse their generosity and leniency. There's a difference with being new and being overwhelmed with 7 years of threads that are neatly organized for you and another that just doesn't like the rules and want to run roughshod over everyone ebcaues they think themselves above everyone else. For crying out out.. Just use the Wil Wheaton Law. |
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Eclipse
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Post by Eclipse on Jul 14, 2015 13:54:45 GMT -5
This is a 7 year old board that is already established... If you don't like our rules you don't have to be here. If you can't abide by them and play nice with everyone else I'm sure you won't like being around us anyway... Mods are volunteers and are not babysitters so don't abuse their generosity and leniency... Just use the Wil Wheaton Law. I think arsenette really nailed things with this. If this were a new forum, then maybe this would be up for debate, but the fact of the matter is that this forum has been around for some time now, and they have a pretty clearly established list of rules. These rules are based on experience and evidence over the years. I'm sure if you really dug into it, every rule on there has a history of reasoning and examples for why it's in place. As newer users (myself included), we should really have some faith in the 'veteran' forum members rather than trying to force them into explaining themselves. They know what forum 'pitfalls' users (especially new users) tend to fall into, and we should realize that at the base level, the rules they have are to try and make the community better for everyone and to try and prevent new users from continually hitting those same pitfalls. The reasoning for what the spoiler rule means and why it was implemented is already in this thread, so there really shouldn't be a lot more to debate. |
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Post by supremekai on Jul 14, 2015 14:02:19 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of some rules either but:
When in Rome do as the Romans do
:/
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jul 14, 2015 14:21:11 GMT -5
To elaborate on that, the rules have had some changes over the years due to trial and error in the early years, we found a system that works and went with those that worked. So we tried various methods and found winners so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Post by blah123 on Jul 14, 2015 14:41:29 GMT -5
Sounds good. Thanks all for clarifying. I guess my one last request would be that when the mods post "Don't do X" topics, they should tell us to reference the rules if we have any further questions. If they don't, people (like myself) are more likely to complain. |
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Post by penguincatfish on Jul 14, 2015 22:42:32 GMT -5
I once suggested the official ANW discussion thread titles for each region this year include the word "spoilers" and was met with a response along the lines of "if you come here looking for information and get upset for finding it then you deserve to have results spoiled". That's nice and all, however, considering each region has one thread which covers everything including thoughts, questions, speculation, news, information, results, etc.; I said it not just as a courtesy but primarily for consistency since that's how it's been done for years under Sasuke and ANW especially with last year's region titles having "SPOILERS" in all caps. I also understand the use of spoiler tagged posts with whole strings of them found throughout spoiler threads, but this is not about that, it's about title consistency.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 14, 2015 22:51:31 GMT -5
I didn't do the threads this year because everyone knows I don't follow ANW. In the past I had the regional spoiler (as it was happening threads) then when the tournament aired I had separate discussion thread that only dealt with NBC's showing. This year there's less people watching from SMF (or at least discussing) and so the regulars there decided to just use the same spoiler threads since most talk in chat anyway. Sasuke's boards are a little different where we are still using the the different discussion threads at each stage of production to keep people from being spoiled if they haven't seen the show and only wanted to log in to see when the next tourney was. There's a LOT of roamers who don't follow the timeline and go "ooooh crap did I miss it?" and log in to see if it aired and where they can see it. That's also why we do spoiler threads clearly marked on the title out of courtesy. ANW's boards aren't as organized this year.
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