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Post by TCM on Aug 8, 2012 17:33:49 GMT -5
I know we likely have talked about this before, but whatever. Many people dislike the Bar Glider, which is not the reason why I created the thread. It's more the reasoning. The two most common during the time where we overanalyze the course more than usual were 1. it's a rehash of an obstacle, and 2. the stopper at the end of the track.
1. This one I don't understand simply because the obstacle got swapped with the Flying Bar, which while a cool obstacle, is essentially the Jumping Bars, just with one bar with notches to jump to. Swing Circle/Jumping Ring is even more guilty of this, swapping rings for bars.
2. The stopper is what gets/got the most criticism. But unless my eyes deceived me, the 2nd half of the track was angled upwards, and since it can be difficult enough to keep the bar on the Pipe Slider from moving when the track was flat, the stopper made the swing possible, without the risk of being screwed out of an attempt. Just because it's possible one way, doesn't make it completely possible another way.
IDK, I'm just creating discussion.
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Post by wrestlingfan55 on Aug 8, 2012 17:39:06 GMT -5
It was harder to move, but easier to swing.
I didn't like it because it replaced the Flying Bar but I think others disliked it, because it was a "poor Pipe Slider".
I also didn't really like it, because I wanted to see how Yuuji and Ryo would fare on the Flying Bar/proper Pipe Slider.
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Post by TCM on Aug 8, 2012 18:18:02 GMT -5
I think the "Harder to move, easier to swing" aspect should have been expected, but that's just me. I get that obstacle positioning means something, but another thing I thought of was how could we be so sure the bar on the Flying Bar would have been free moving at the end of it if it was the final obstacle? We never got a good look at that final notch.
I personally liked that it got moved, because it meant we'd see it in action, and we still got two fails out of it, although I think it as a post-Cliffhanger obstacle would be better. Is it also really fair to dislike an obstacle when ultimately, they attempted in officially in some fashion, not to mention, there's no real chance of the Pipe Slider returning unless it has a variant to it.
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Post by wrestlingfan55 on Aug 8, 2012 18:39:32 GMT -5
I think it was the third stage as a whole that people disliked, including me. It became, "Can you defeat each obstacle?" instead of, "Do you have the endurance?" but maybe that's just me.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Aug 9, 2012 9:38:45 GMT -5
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Post by dudesky1000 on Aug 9, 2012 9:42:28 GMT -5
If the Pipe Slider had a stopper, we'd have had a winner before 17. I guarantee it. That many more people would have made the final. Nobody actually ever had trouble sliding the bar to the end. The obstacle was more about the jump.
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Post by TCM on Aug 9, 2012 12:11:28 GMT -5
If the Pipe Slider had a stopper, we'd have had a winner before 17. I guarantee it. That many more people would have made the final. Nobody actually ever had trouble sliding the bar to the end. The obstacle was more about the jump. Are you ignoring the fact that the track was raised? How can we be sure the jump with a raised track with no stopper was even possible? Because a track that was completely straight (aka not raised) was possible with no stopper? This is why I usually don't take part in armchair designing, it'll ALWAYS be about a jump, stopper or not, that's just foolish logic that an obstacle loses something by making sure something is possible in the first place. |
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Post by RiderLeangle on Aug 9, 2012 12:43:26 GMT -5
To anyone who complains about the last obstacle because of an "easy" jump, I want to remind you about Takahashi Kenji in Sasuke 23, just because something is easier than the pipe slider doesn't mean it won't be failed... especially on a first attempt... People give the Bar Glider hate just because it has 100% clear ratio by the two competitors most prepared for stage 3... but had more people gotten there I would think there would be some fails... most people probably would have been dead at that point because of the rest of stage 3... and hell, even Yuuji struggled a bit with the upwards jump. And something everyone is overlooking... Just because it has a notch doesn't mean it's guaranteed... If you try to go high swing you'd probably end up popping out of it... it's not that secure that you can just swing however you want without it popping out, and chances are if you didn't you'd be falling back and the thing would come off the rails... Let's consider another obstacle here... the Flying Bar, you've got a rubber capped bar in (what appear to be wooden) notches with raised bits bigger than the stopper on the Flying Bar, and we still had people sliding like crazy and one person pulling it out because of his swing... The Bar Glider sure as hell could with that little stopper and the inclined track... the fact of the matter is the only people who made it there knew exactly what they were doing with the obstacle and have done a ton of stamina training for stage 3... For example, let's put the Bar Glider in Shin Sasuke or earlier... there would have been fails... |
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Post by TCM on Aug 9, 2012 12:57:09 GMT -5
Actually, the bar did pop off the stopper, with Yuuji's attempt. He jumped forward and when he landed on the mat, the bar not only popped off the stopper, he broke the safety wire and the bar rolled down the track back to the beginning.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Aug 9, 2012 12:58:07 GMT -5
Actually, the bar did pop off the stopper, with Yuuji's attempt. He jumped forward and when he landed on the mat, the bar not only popped off the stopper, he broke the safety wire and the bar rolled down the track back to the beginning. I know... I'm talking about with someone actually on the obstacle  |
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Post by TCM on Aug 9, 2012 13:01:31 GMT -5
That's just an example though. If it could pop off then, it surely could with someone on it. There were plenty of attempts when the finish mat was a step down during the early Pipe Slider days where people would force a hard swing/jump, but still holds on. That might be enough to pop a stopper off.
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Post by Badalight on Aug 9, 2012 13:02:36 GMT -5
Pipe Slider is my favorite obstacle in Sasuke, and this new one seemed like a lame version of it - simple as that. It's far from the worst obstacle of all time, but putting a stopper at the end ruins the entire point of the pipe slider. Obviously without the stopper it would be nearly impossible, but there are better things they could have done to improve/change the pipe slider.
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Post by Shuberb674 on Aug 9, 2012 16:18:40 GMT -5
But they could just have NOT RAISED IT! Then they could have not put in stoppers!
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Post by RiderLeangle on Aug 9, 2012 19:49:14 GMT -5
But they could just have NOT RAISED IT! Then they could have not put in stoppers! They could have raised the first section too... but that doesn't matter, since the two people who made it there still would have cleared it... Yuuji probably prepared like hell for it over the years and Ryo has one in his bedroom... we used to have videos of him doing it there, but this muscle park clip should prove it, the fact of the matter is the only people to attempt the Bar Glider were the two top stage 3 competitors... Not to mention the fact M9 didn't want to put something that can rob people like the Pipe Slider can after the rest of the stage 3 they've already had to tone down twice just for anyone to get past the half way point... |
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Post by Badalight on Aug 10, 2012 15:05:00 GMT -5
I don't think that's why people are "complaining" Rider. I'm pretty sure Yuuji and Ryo would have cleared it no matter what, but that doesn't change the fact that I dislike the obstacle.
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Post by dudesky1000 on Aug 10, 2012 15:17:06 GMT -5
There is no guarantee if they would have cleared it. Look at any tournament between 8-17. Any kind of backward momentum, even the smallest amount of backward swing would send the pipe backward, requiring a lot more technique. NOBODY ever cleared the pipe slider by swinging back like the Gliding Ring. The Grinding Ring in 21 was basically the Pipe Slider, just with a ring instead. See how it flew back when Nagano tried to gain momentum (even though there was a stopper there, he just couldn't get over it)? That's exactly how it should have worked. THAT is a worthy final obstacle. It is the ultimate test of 'do you have anything left?'
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Post by wrestlingfan55 on Aug 10, 2012 16:16:46 GMT -5
I doubt they would have cleared the Pipe Slider. If there's one obstacle I can see Yuuji failing, it's that.
That obstacle was extremely difficult.
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Post by VenusHeadTrap on Aug 15, 2012 17:23:30 GMT -5
Stag3 as a whole in 27 was pathetic. People had nothing left by the time they reached the Ultimate Cliffhanger in 25 and 26. From what I gather, the designers wanted someone to pass it, but that took the fun away from everything. I still wonder if Yuuji could have beat 25 or 26 Third Stage, so far he has been flawless in Stag3.
The Bar Glider, I'll admit, was a way easier final obstacle than the Flying Bar. I didn't like it.
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