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Post by Oti on Dec 31, 2009 17:07:05 GMT -5
I... I don't see how you could have been healthy doing that. But yes, I'm very deconstructive when it comes to lies.
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baronbk
Paul Anthony Terek
Posts: 496
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Post by baronbk on Dec 31, 2009 19:56:42 GMT -5
But yes, I'm very deconstructive when it comes to lies. It's this sort of post that makes things worse. It's completely unnecessary and you know it, come on.
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baronbk
Paul Anthony Terek
Posts: 496
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Post by baronbk on Dec 31, 2009 19:56:57 GMT -5
I... I don't see how you could have been healthy doing that. Haha, exactly!
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Post by Badalight on Dec 31, 2009 20:03:49 GMT -5
Let's just be friends.
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Post by Oti on Dec 31, 2009 21:09:25 GMT -5
What do you call something that isn't true, then?
Ah wub yew.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 1, 2010 2:58:45 GMT -5
I agree with this statement on a totally non-health-related level. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question!
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Post by davidcampbell on Jan 1, 2010 19:04:21 GMT -5
The only things that bothers me about it, that I'm not sure anybody's mentioned yet, is the fact that, although most proteins can be found without meat, there are certain specific proteins that are uniquely found in meat, unless you're into taking vitamin pills etc. Even my friend of godly fitness has to take the occasional pill containing 8000% of his daily vitamin C intake (lol). If you have well balanced vege diet you don't miss out on any proteins. Taurine is the protein that I usually hear about and people say that it's only available from meat. However it is available some vegan sources such as kelp / seaweed and yeast. But an even better source is eggs, if you eat eggs as I do you don't need to worry about any of that stuff. Oh yeah, our boeis can actually manufacture many of these protiens such as taurine, so it's not really even vital as long as you have good nutrition in general. I'm not sure what you are saying about vitamin C. Vegetarians generally get a lot more vitamin C than non-veg. Are you just saying that everyone supplements anyway so who ares? Yeah I take lots of vitamins and I take protein shakes and eggs (though I did all these things before I was vegetarian as well)
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Post by Oti on Jan 1, 2010 21:28:37 GMT -5
No, but you miss out on essential animal fats.
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Post by davidcampbell on Jan 2, 2010 4:52:22 GMT -5
the only animal fats that are good for you are fish oils, because of the omega fatty acids. Those can be had from vegan sources as well such as flax seed.
But just to be clear I am not saying that fish oils are bad for you.
Honestly I haven't researched fish as much as other meats. I never liked fish all that much even when I ate meat so I just decided to cut it out. Also a fish is an animal and I don't feel right about eating them. I'm not sure if fish will cause all the intestinal problems that other meats do (as it seems less dense compared to tother meats). The main drawback to fish these days though, is that it's almost impossible to get fish without mercury in it. Also most commercial fishing practices are pretty destructive to the eco system of the ocean and the oceans are being over-fished.
If you could find line caught fish from a mercury free source it's probably fine in moderation (as in not every day) from a health standpoint?
With the exception of fish oils though, all the other animal fats namely pork and beef just contribute to heart disease and cancer.
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Post by Oti on Jan 2, 2010 10:05:19 GMT -5
Untrue.
Also untrue.
Maybe research into this?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2010 22:21:58 GMT -5
If your going to say something isn't true, back it up.
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Post by Oti on Jan 2, 2010 22:26:53 GMT -5
If David wants the proof, he can look it up, as can any of you.
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Post by ansem120 on Jan 7, 2010 4:54:55 GMT -5
If David wants the proof, he can look it up, as can any of you. I'm really not trying to interject in a thread that I have contributed nothing to, but why can't you give proof? Under that rule, I could say Thomas Jefferson was George Washington's Vice President before John Adams was. It's not true, but because no direct evidence to the contrary has been given, no one besides someone who has studied that subject could disprove it.
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Post by Oti on Jan 7, 2010 11:18:10 GMT -5
Because earlier in this topic, David told me I can do the research if I want the proof. The same goes for him. This works fine for both of us, who are the ones who were debating this topic in the first place anyway. You and JP are the ones jumping in, seemingly unwilling to use Google. :/
To your example, I say this: That's actually why I joined this forum nearly a year ago. Supersheep had posted some incorrect calculation about the Jumping Spider, so I came in and corrected it. When people got mad and demanded proof, I got it (the math work) and then the topic died. Only a few people acknowledged the proof and that I had ACTUALLY been right.
My point is that quite often around here, information is wrong until somebody (usually Arsenette or Lostinube) corrects it. It's not my problem if some people just believe everything they hear (read?) instead of looking it up.
I can't tell you how many times I had to do research already during this debate, as well as the "muscle fiber debate" David and I had on the G4 forum months ago. David truly is a worthy debating opponent.
So. Yeah. Use Google.
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Post by ansem120 on Jan 7, 2010 12:48:27 GMT -5
Well, to be honest with you man, after a 20 minute preliminary search of Google, I find a lot more information that suggests a vegetarian diet is better in the long run. The most intriging study I found was this one that states a 3.6 year increase in people who have a "Low meat consuming diet" as opposed to those who have an "Average meat consuming diet." www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/3/526SNow, granted, I also found some information that backs up some of your claims, such as the fish oil statement. However, I can't find any study or article that either proves or disproves what you're saying about the link of some meats and cancer. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to give you a hard time. As a dude who was already strongly considering a vegetarian diet, I was naturally interested in David's claim of some meat's correlation to cancer. Now, if this proof is as easy to find as you say it is, I see no reason why you can't just post it here and put this to rest.
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Post by Straticus on Jan 7, 2010 14:36:32 GMT -5
Wow, this has been one interesting read! Learning a lot on both ends and have to say its been rather informative even though its a heated debate, makes for good reading haha.
I'll stay with my balanced diet of a little bit of everything though. I have no qualms with eating animals because we are at the top of the food chain. You think a polar bear is going to stop and ask how we feel before mauling us? Negative. I don't believe that animals have any type of cognitive thought process other than basic survival instincts; no emotion or feelings. Yea it sucks for those cows that about to be slaughtered but we can do that because man has evolved to the point to where we can mass produce them. I do agree that too much of that is going on though, so the real problem child here is obesity. If more people would eat a healthy diet then the demand for more food would lower and so would the negative effects of all the manufacturing for all food types.
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Post by Oti on Jan 7, 2010 15:17:42 GMT -5
I don't know what you searched for, but when I searched for stuff, I found several lists of things that are wrong with vegetarianism. Try searching for my specific points? Well, you are. Continuing this topic just to demand evidence... couldn't you have PMed me or something? Because it's not my job. If you search for specific points, you should have no problem. Searching just "vegetarian", however, will probably give you a ton of BS pages (most of which are probably blogs) about how people are happier than ever because they've made the "healthy choice" of going vegetarian. Now, if anyone thinks that makes me sound like an a*****e, you need to realize that there is no substantial evidence that PROVES that cutting out meat is better for you. Therefore, when someone makes the "healthy choice" to go vegetarian, they're only doing so because it is common believe that it is better for you. Because of that, I'm willing to bet a lot of people DO feel better when they become vegetarians... because of the placebo effect. So here. I just searched for about two minutes and found this. It's an interesting read that pokes holes in just about everything David has posted so far: www.vanguardonline.f9.co.uk/00509.htmWell put, Strat. Wise as always.
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Post by ansem120 on Jan 7, 2010 15:38:28 GMT -5
So here. I just searched for about two minutes and found this. It's an interesting read that pokes holes in just about everything David has posted so far: www.vanguardonline.f9.co.uk/00509.htmNow see, that's all I wanted. Thank you very much Oti. I'm truly sorry if I annoyed you, just trying to get the facts here.
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Post by Oti on Jan 7, 2010 15:42:27 GMT -5
No problem. I was admittedly cranky (as usual).
PEACE BE WIT' YOU, MAH BROTHA.
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arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
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Post by arsenette on Jan 11, 2010 12:17:33 GMT -5
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