|
|
Post by shunsukenumber98 on Nov 7, 2024 9:03:27 GMT -5
Something I wonder is, in all its years, was there any time that a result on sasuke was scripted? ie, the producers wanted a certain fail or clear from a certain competitor to get better ratings?
|
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Nov 7, 2024 12:56:41 GMT -5
Something I wonder is, in all its years, was there any time that a result on sasuke was scripted? ie, the producers wanted a certain fail or clear from a certain competitor to get better ratings? I'm not really sure what you mean by scripted in this case. The only way a result can be "scripted" is if the competitor fails on purpose, which we have seen a few times from joke competitors. Kasuga's fail in 40 springs to mind. I also felt like Takashi Honma's fail in 38 was a case of him knowing he was going to time out so why not go out in a funny manner (ie the result itself wasn't scripted but the manner in which he failed might have been). He fell over several metres before the end of the platform and it definitely looked like he was crawling over the edge to fall into the water rather than actually falling. Either way, I'm not sure any of these competitors were straight up asked to fail where they did, rather they just did so of their own volition for comic effect. You definitely can't script clears, because a clear is never guaranteed, and it's evident from the fact that we've seen multiple cases of competitors Inui REALLY wants to do well fail Stage 1 (e.g. ABC-Z, Iwamoto, etc.). Inui could beg one of his mascot celebrities to "please clear for the ratings", but if they fail on Stage 1, they fail. We have seen degrees of fabrication with regards to how the existing results were presented though. 26 positioned Okuyama as the last Japanese competitor standing to make his Stage 2 clear seem more dramatic, even though Hashimoto actually ran after him. 27 also did a fair bit of showing clears/fails out of order, this one being a bit more forgivable because we did have absolute hoards of clears which would've been hard to digest in order if there were a bunch of fails in between. 30 tried to do this and ended up just cutting anyone who failed within a group of numbers where there were a lot of clears. The worst was actually not on Sasuke but on ANW vs the World (I know ANW isn't exactly known for its legitimacy in certain aspects but this concerns Sasuke competitors) where on the Stage 3 matchup between Stefano Ghisolfi and Morimoto, Yusuke actually cleared faster than Ghisolfi but they edited the runs such that Ghisolfi seemingly went faster, basically to force USA and Europe into a tiebreaker for the Final/eliminate Japan. I'm really surprised no one caught wind of this during the broadcast because there must've been a timer somewhere? |
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on Nov 8, 2024 10:09:50 GMT -5
Something I wonder is, in all its years, was there any time that a result on sasuke was scripted? ie, the producers wanted a certain fail or clear from a certain competitor to get better ratings? I'm not really sure what you mean by scripted in this case. The only way a result can be "scripted" is if the competitor fails on purpose, which we have seen a few times from joke competitors. Kasuga's fail in 40 springs to mind. I also felt like Takashi Honma's fail in 38 was a case of him knowing he was going to time out so why not go out in a funny manner (ie the result itself wasn't scripted but the manner in which he failed might have been). He fell over several metres before the end of the platform and it definitely looked like he was crawling over the edge to fall into the water rather than actually falling. Either way, I'm not sure any of these competitors were straight up asked to fail where they did, rather they just did so of their own volition for comic effect. You definitely can't script clears, because a clear is never guaranteed, and it's evident from the fact that we've seen multiple cases of competitors Inui REALLY wants to do well fail Stage 1 (e.g. ABC-Z, Iwamoto, etc.). Inui could beg one of his mascot celebrities to "please clear for the ratings", but if they fail on Stage 1, they fail. We have seen degrees of fabrication with regards to how the existing results were presented though. 26 positioned Okuyama as the last Japanese competitor standing to make his Stage 2 clear seem more dramatic, even though Hashimoto actually ran after him. 27 also did a fair bit of showing clears/fails out of order, this one being a bit more forgivable because we did have absolute hoards of clears which would've been hard to digest in order if there were a bunch of fails in between. 30 tried to do this and ended up just cutting anyone who failed within a group of numbers where there were a lot of clears. The worst was actually not on Sasuke but on ANW vs the World (I know ANW isn't exactly known for its legitimacy in certain aspects but this concerns Sasuke competitors) where on the Stage 3 matchup between Stefano Ghisolfi and Morimoto, Yusuke actually cleared faster than Ghisolfi but they edited the runs such that Ghisolfi seemingly went faster, basically to force USA and Europe into a tiebreaker for the Final/eliminate Japan. I'm really surprised no one caught wind of this during the broadcast because there must've been a timer somewhere? It's not just Yusuke apparently, Ryo also beat Brian Arnold by a considerable margin, but time was gradually added to make it seem closer than it actually was. As for the timers, they were supposedly removed for that event. And I'm guessing due to this controversy this is why they added the split timer in the next one. Honma's fall I associate with "well I'm done, might as well go out in style", ditto for HIKAKIN in 40 though in the latter's case I notice the Fish Bone actually stopped during his run (not sure if it was a glitch or because they knew he was timing out all the same, but it did). Kasuga was mostly there for promotion from what I know, but if that was an on purpose fail that was one hell of a dive to take. |
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Nov 8, 2024 12:26:33 GMT -5
It's not just Yusuke apparently, Ryo also beat Brian Arnold by a considerable margin, but time was gradually added to make it seem closer than it actually was. As for the timers, they were supposedly removed for that event. And I'm guessing due to this controversy this is why they added the split timer in the next one. Honma's fall I associate with "well I'm done, might as well go out in style", ditto for HIKAKIN in 40 though in the latter's case I notice the Fish Bone actually stopped during his run (not sure if it was a glitch or because they knew he was timing out all the same, but it did). Kasuga was mostly there for promotion from what I know, but if that was an on purpose fail that was one hell of a dive to take. That one is a bit more forgivable because they still awarded Ryo the win he deserved, I didn't know they actually fabricated this as well but it did seem a bit too good to be true that they supposedly reached the exact same point about a second away from one another on that long a course. In Yusuke's case they technically did the same thing but used the manipulation to actually reverse the outcome to facilitate the narrative they wanted to tell (e.g. going to a tiebreaker on the Final). Not that I have any evidence to back this up nor am I suggested any of this happened, but it's stuff like this that really makes you wonder whether other results were staged or rigged on the USA vs World shows that we don't know about, because you just can't trust NBC at this point. Japan always seemed to do abnormally poorly, and stuff like James McGrath failing on the Floating Boards, giving Yuuji a clear path to a win, then Yuuji also failing there in a slower time, almost seems too bad to be true. And we know the degree of rigging that's gone on in standard ANW, like Andrew Lowes who wasn't allowed through even though he cleared in time, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by edaan on Nov 8, 2024 13:40:20 GMT -5
It's not just Yusuke apparently, Ryo also beat Brian Arnold by a considerable margin, but time was gradually added to make it seem closer than it actually was. As for the timers, they were supposedly removed for that event. And I'm guessing due to this controversy this is why they added the split timer in the next one. Honma's fall I associate with "well I'm done, might as well go out in style", ditto for HIKAKIN in 40 though in the latter's case I notice the Fish Bone actually stopped during his run (not sure if it was a glitch or because they knew he was timing out all the same, but it did). Kasuga was mostly there for promotion from what I know, but if that was an on purpose fail that was one hell of a dive to take. That one is a bit more forgivable because they still awarded Ryo the win he deserved, I didn't know they actually fabricated this as well but it did seem a bit too good to be true that they supposedly reached the exact same point about a second away from one another on that long a course. In Yusuke's case they technically did the same thing but used the manipulation to actually reverse the outcome to facilitate the narrative they wanted to tell (e.g. going to a tiebreaker on the Final). Not that I have any evidence to back this up nor am I suggested any of this happened, but it's stuff like this that really makes you wonder whether other results were staged or rigged on the USA vs World shows that we don't know about, because you just can't trust NBC at this point. Japan always seemed to do abnormally poorly, and stuff like James McGrath failing on the Floating Boards, giving Yuuji a clear path to a win, then Yuuji also failing there in a slower time, almost seems too bad to be true. And we know the degree of rigging that's gone on in standard ANW, like Andrew Lowes who wasn't allowed through even though he cleared in time, etc. Ryo didn't get the win he deserved. It should have been a 3 way tie after Stage 3 (each team on 6 points), making it so that all 3 teams would climb Stage 4. Maybe NBC didn't want this as it would have narratively made the first 3 stages a waste of time, but regardless both riggings changed the outcome by simply excluding Japan from the final. I wonder though who they would have chosen to run on Stage 4 had it not been rigged, Ryo who was the most recent finalist and the closest to Kanzenseiha at the time or Yusuke who in hindsight is far better on ropes. |
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Nov 8, 2024 14:30:21 GMT -5
Ryo didn't get the win he deserved. It should have been a 3 way tie after Stage 3 (each team on 6 points), making it so that all 3 teams would climb Stage 4. Maybe NBC didn't want this as it would have narratively made the first 3 stages a waste of time, but regardless both riggings changed the outcome by simply excluding Japan from the final. I wonder though who they would have chosen to run on Stage 4 had it not been rigged, Ryo who was the most recent finalist and the closest to Kanzenseiha at the time or Yusuke who in hindsight is far better on ropes. Not sure we're talking about the same tournament here. The manipulated timer for Ryo vs Arnold was for USA vs Japan, where Ryo still technically won his heat but they made it out as though there was only a 1 second difference when it was actually considerably longer. I know Arnold beat Ryo with a faster time on Stage 3 on the first USA vs the World, but I've not heard that they rigged the timer to fabricate that result before. The Yusuke vs Ghisolfi controversy though is quite well known, where Yusuke did indeed clear with a faster time but they edited it such that it looked like he took longer and hence lost. My gut feeling is this: Ryo actually lost his heat fair and square, and this was actually Heat 2 (edited to be "Heat 3"). This would've put USA-Europe-Japan at 9-6-0. Yusuke vs Ghisolfi was actually the very last heat, and they rigged the result because at that point there was no way that a tie breaker could have happened unless Europe won. USA had failed that heat anyway so it was Europe vs Japan, hence they manipulated the timer so that it would be 9-9 USA-Europe and the Final would happen. At that point had Japan won, it would've been 9-6-3 so no Final. This seems like a stretch but if you think about it, it makes sense. Even with my sentiment towards NBC/ANW, I'm doubtful they would've been so malicious towards Japan that they wanted to cast them out of a three-way Final. Instead I think the rigging was a failsafe option where it was either the two-way standoff or no Final at all, and swapped out the run orders to make it seem less obvious. Generally though I'm pretty stunned that no one noticed, or that Japan returned for international comps as the rigging situation became quite well known amongst the community. I wouldn't return if I'd been wronged like that, knowing it could happen again. |
|
|
|
Post by edaan on Nov 8, 2024 15:09:10 GMT -5
Ryo didn't get the win he deserved. It should have been a 3 way tie after Stage 3 (each team on 6 points), making it so that all 3 teams would climb Stage 4. Maybe NBC didn't want this as it would have narratively made the first 3 stages a waste of time, but regardless both riggings changed the outcome by simply excluding Japan from the final. I wonder though who they would have chosen to run on Stage 4 had it not been rigged, Ryo who was the most recent finalist and the closest to Kanzenseiha at the time or Yusuke who in hindsight is far better on ropes. Not sure we're talking about the same tournament here. The manipulated timer for Ryo vs Arnold was for USA vs Japan, where Ryo still technically won his heat but they made it out as though there was only a 1 second difference when it was actually considerably longer. I know Arnold beat Ryo with a faster time on Stage 3 on the first USA vs the World, but I've not heard that they rigged the timer to fabricate that result before. The Yusuke vs Ghisolfi controversy though is quite well known, where Yusuke did indeed clear with a faster time but they edited it such that it looked like he took longer and hence lost. My gut feeling is this: Ryo actually lost his heat fair and square, and this was actually Heat 2 (edited to be "Heat 3"). This would've put USA-Europe-Japan at 9-6-0. Yusuke vs Ghisolfi was actually the very last heat, and they rigged the result because at that point there was no way that a tie breaker could have happened unless Europe won. USA had failed that heat anyway so it was Europe vs Japan, hence they manipulated the timer so that it would be 9-9 USA-Europe and the Final would happen. At that point had Japan won, it would've been 9-6-3 so no Final. This seems like a stretch but if you think about it, it makes sense. Even with my sentiment towards NBC/ANW, I'm doubtful they would've been so malicious towards Japan that they wanted to cast them out of a three-way Final. Instead I think the rigging was a failsafe option where it was either the two-way standoff or no Final at all, and swapped out the run orders to make it seem less obvious. Generally though I'm pretty stunned that no one noticed, or that Japan returned for international comps as the rigging situation became quite well known amongst the community. I wouldn't return if I'd been wronged like that, knowing it could happen again. Yeah, you're right on that, that was my mistake and I'm sorry. I'd heard about USA Vs the World 1 being rigged but I was unaware of rigging in USA Vs Japan too. Your point still 100% stands about NBC being completely insultingly patriotic in early international competitions though. |
|
