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Post by zoran on Oct 19, 2024 9:05:38 GMT -5
Bunpei's requirement to become an All Star was reaching the final in 12 then the pipe slider in 13. Using this requirement could we have seen the likes of Asoaka, Koji or Kobayashi become All Stars? We'll say Shinji makes it to pipe slider in 15 then the final in 16, Koji makes it to the final in 13, then the jumping bars in 15, then the the dismount on the pipe slider in 16 and final in 17. Asoaka makes it back to the final in 13 and continues competing. Did any of these 3 have a chance of becoming one or do you think the producers just wanted 6? If so would that have motivated them to stay on?
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Post by hatkun on Oct 19, 2024 9:50:09 GMT -5
I agree on all three cases
It's weird to me that Shinji did so poorly in 12, which was a classic All-Star dominance tournament. I think that lack of consistency really hurt his case. If we say he gets to the final of 12, and back to the 3rd stage in 13, plus his performance in 14, I think TBS would be fools not to make him an All-Star at that point. And in that case I could definitely see him coming back for Sasuke 17.
Simiarly, I think Koji's chances were hurt by the slump he had after his incredible debut with back to back first stage fails. If he could've made at least one third stage appearance there, maybe the final in 13, the case would be pretty hard to argue against as he would be one of the strongest and most consistent athletes at that point.
Asaoka was pretty much there as he cleared the first stage four times in a row from 10-14, although he skipped 13, before dropping off the face of the earth. And if he had made the final in 13 or at least got as far as Bunpei did? Yeah, add him to the group. He had shown by that point that his struggles on the first stage were a thing of the past and he was becoming a consistently strong competitor. Plus, he already has his own nickname.
Another one I think could have been if he had just had a little more endurance is Iketani. He had an underrated streak of dominnation from 10-16 as he made it to the third stage five out of seven times, but never got past the first Cliffhanger transition and had worsening results throughout. And again, somehow didn't clear the first stage in 12. If we change his results to something like this
10 - cliffhanger
11 - pipe slider
13 - final
14 - jumping bars
16 - pipe slider
Then I could honestly see him being added as an All-Star considering he was already well-known in his own right.
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Post by dakohosu on Oct 19, 2024 14:32:54 GMT -5
I agree on all three cases It's weird to me that Shinji did so poorly in 12, which was a classic All-Star dominance tournament. I think that lack of consistency really hurt his case. If we say he gets to the final of 12, and back to the 3rd stage in 13, plus his performance in 14, I think TBS would be fools not to make him an All-Star at that point. And in that case I could definitely see him coming back for Sasuke 17. Simiarly, I think Koji's chances were hurt by the slump he had after his incredible debut with back to back first stage fails. If he could've made at least one third stage appearance there, maybe the final in 13, the case would be pretty hard to argue against as he would be one of the strongest and most consistent athletes at that point. Asaoka was pretty much there as he cleared the first stage four times in a row from 10-14, although he skipped 13, before dropping off the face of the earth. And if he had made the final in 13 or at least got as far as Bunpei did? Yeah, add him to the group. He had shown by that point that his struggles on the first stage were a thing of the past and he was becoming a consistently strong competitor. Plus, he already has his own nickname. Another one I think could have been if he had just had a little more endurance is Iketani. Iketani wouldn't have worked because the whole spiel of the All-Stars were ordinary working guys doing extraordinary things. Iketani was a elebrity so somewhat goes against that ethos imo. He definitely worked better as a secondary celebrity pro athlete, at least to me. Shinji was in theory a prime candidate to be an All-Star. Unique outfit, unique career, and likable personality. The issue was that he had neither made the Final Stage, nor was he consistent like Takeda, and at the time Yamada and Akiyama were already on a bit of a downward slump, so they didn't want to bank on a third as his subsequent performances weren't the most confidence inspiring. I do find it incredibly odd how TBS treated him regardless. Comes in second place in 11, then is the only one out of the last 10 runners to get cut in 12, gets digested in 13, then gets cut 3/4 times in Shin-Sasuke. Asaoka probably had the best case for being an All-Star out of the three presented here. Had been competing for a while, had made the Final, and was a teacher which would've been a great career to include in the group. I think after he took 6 months off his job to train and still came up short he very clearly mentally checked out and stopped training for the most part, perhaps the producers knew this which is why he got triple digested in 14, then cut in his last two appearances. Koji was potentially already going against the odds as he was the less established of the two firefighters, the other of which was already an All-Star. That said, I do genuinely think had he continued competing he could've possibly surpassed Takeda given his better performances in 16 and 19, and would've probably matched Takeda in 17 had he not made the faux pas on Stage 2. He seemed to be on an upward trajectory, then just quit despite tying best performance in his last run. I'm unsure of his ability to beat Stage 3 though; firefighters seem to have this weird inability to deal with swinging obstacles, maybe it's because they train on pure verticality. All in all I think Bunpei was a good pick. Sure, he was the least memorable of the group due to his short tenure, but the guy was arguably the Number 2 behind Nagano during the late Golden Era. He had a real chance at Kanzen in 16 and 17. If you saw 17 for the first time with the Kanzen spoiler, 90% chance it was going to be Nagano, but at least for me, that other 10% would've gone to Bunpei. |
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Post by hatkun on Oct 19, 2024 14:46:36 GMT -5
I agree on all three cases It's weird to me that Shinji did so poorly in 12, which was a classic All-Star dominance tournament. I think that lack of consistency really hurt his case. If we say he gets to the final of 12, and back to the 3rd stage in 13, plus his performance in 14, I think TBS would be fools not to make him an All-Star at that point. And in that case I could definitely see him coming back for Sasuke 17. Simiarly, I think Koji's chances were hurt by the slump he had after his incredible debut with back to back first stage fails. If he could've made at least one third stage appearance there, maybe the final in 13, the case would be pretty hard to argue against as he would be one of the strongest and most consistent athletes at that point. Asaoka was pretty much there as he cleared the first stage four times in a row from 10-14, although he skipped 13, before dropping off the face of the earth. And if he had made the final in 13 or at least got as far as Bunpei did? Yeah, add him to the group. He had shown by that point that his struggles on the first stage were a thing of the past and he was becoming a consistently strong competitor. Plus, he already has his own nickname. Another one I think could have been if he had just had a little more endurance is Iketani. Iketani wouldn't have worked because the whole spiel of the All-Stars were ordinary working guys doing extraordinary things. Iketani was a elebrity so somewhat goes against that ethos imo. He definitely worked better as a secondary celebrity pro athlete, at least to me. Shinji was in theory a prime candidate to be an All-Star. Unique outfit, unique career, and likable personality. The issue was that he had neither made the Final Stage, nor was he consistent like Takeda, and at the time Yamada and Akiyama were already on a bit of a downward slump, so they didn't want to bank on a third as his subsequent performances weren't the most confidence inspiring. I do find it incredibly odd how TBS treated him regardless. Comes in second place in 11, then is the only one out of the last 10 runners to get cut in 12, gets digested in 13, then gets cut 3/4 times in Shin-Sasuke. Asaoka probably had the best case for being an All-Star out of the three presented here. Had been competing for a while, had made the Final, and was a teacher which would've been a great career to include in the group. I think after he took 6 months off his job to train and still came up short he very clearly mentally checked out and stopped training for the most part, perhaps the producers knew this which is why he got triple digested in 14, then cut in his last two appearances. Koji was potentially already going against the odds as he was the less established of the two firefighters, the other of which was already an All-Star. That said, I do genuinely think had he continued competing he could've possibly surpassed Takeda given his better performances in 16 and 19, and would've probably matched Takeda in 17 had he not made the faux pas on Stage 2. He seemed to be on an upward trajectory, then just quit despite tying best performance in his last run. I'm unsure of his ability to beat Stage 3 though; firefighters seem to have this weird inability to deal with swinging obstacles, maybe it's because they train on pure verticality. All in all I think Bunpei was a good pick. Sure, he was the least memorable of the group due to his short tenure, but the guy was arguably the Number 2 behind Nagano during the late Golden Era. He had a real chance at Kanzen in 16 and 17. If you saw 17 for the first time with the Kanzen spoiler, 90% chance it was going to be Nagano, but at least for me, that other 10% would've gone to Bunpei. Hm, I didn’t know that. I mean when you step back and look, it does seem pretty obvious that they played up the working class guy image. I just think it’s interesting though because the Kosugis were inaugural All-Stars, and so were Shoei and Omori, who were all celebrity athletes. I guess it was later that the philosophy of only having working class guys took hold. I still feel like if Naoki had been stronger in the early years, which he had the potential to do, he could have been one. But by the time they were looking for a sixth in the post-12 era, Bunpei made the most sense. |
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Post by dakohosu on Oct 19, 2024 15:08:42 GMT -5
Hm, I didn’t know that. I mean when you step back and look, it does seem pretty obvious that they played up the working class guy image. I just think it’s interesting though because the Kosugis were inaugural All-Stars, and so were Shoei and Omori, who were all celebrity athletes. I guess it was later that the philosophy of only having working class guys took hold. I still feel like if Naoki had been stronger in the early years, which he had the potential to do, he could have been one. But by the time they were looking for a sixth in the post-12 era, Bunpei made the most sense. Yeah the whole Sasuke 6 All-Stars thing was quite odd; it seemed like they just picked the strongest competitors of the time period plus the celebrity athletes, but I think they realised that 13 members was a bit overkill. It's hard to market and build a rapport with a mascot group when each individual member played such a minor role in that group, and many ended up quitting shortly after anyway. It didn't seem like a well thought out approach especially as they also included guys like Nicolas Pettas and Shoei who'd never even competed before. With the ACTUAL All-Stars, they were all highly likable, unique working class guys who were all friends with one another (Yamada less so but you get my point lol), and what stood them out from the rest were that they were dominating the course above and beyond everyone else despite their careers and life situations suggesting otherwise, which made them inherently more marketable. Normal guys who trained day and night for the show looks and sounds a lot better than professional athletes doing well because that's their actual career, if that makes sense. Iketani's track record was a weird one because age didn't seem to be affecting him generally as he was consistently dominating on Pro Sportsman even in his 30s, yet his performances on Sasuke declined almost perfectly over the course of the Golden Era. He went from reaching the Cliffhanger, to failing the Body Prop which he'd passed before, then to his infamous painful performance in 16. Sure, lack of specific Sasuke training might've had something to do with it, but no one bar Bunpei really built/trained on replicas at the time. Bunpei despite being remembered as "the sixth All-Star" to me will always be among my favorite because he was insanely ahead of his time, the guy was a mad scientist of course building and technique, and all of this despite being considerably older than the rest of the group. He still holds the record for oldest best performer at 38 in Sasuke 16. His career as a gov worker wasn't as interesting as a teacher or a garbage man, but what he brought to the table in terms of his Shiratori shrine and his Nagano-rivalling performances made up for it imo. And ultimately the ordinary career thing always seemed to be a proxy for dedication to the show as they trained around their salaryman jobs (again, except Yamada lol) to dominate in the way that they did, and Bunpei's approach emulated that better than anyone imo. |
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