Was the 7-17 stage 2 a nurf of the 5-6 stage 2?

[sackeshi]

I've been doing a Japanese broadcast run through and it just seems like it's easier.

The clear rate in Sasuke 1-6 was 42%, 30% if you remove the Sasuke 6 outlier.

The clear rate doesn't dip below 50% again until shin Sasuke.

[dakohosu]

Oct 13, 2024 7:00:46 GMT -5 sackeshi said:

I've been doing a Japanese broadcast run through and it just seems like it's easier.

The clear rate in Sasuke 1-6 was 42%, 30% if you remove the Sasuke 6 outlier.

The clear rate doesn't dip below 50% again until shin Sasuke.

I don't think you can group 7-17 together because of the difference in difficulty over that period. 7's Stage 2 was 90 seconds, and had an unfailable back half. 17's was 65 seconds yet had the Balance Tank and Metal Spin. 

Similar story with 5 and 6. The Tackle Machine wasted a few more seconds than the Narrow, which with that stringent a time limit, made a huge difference, especially when you consider the fastest clear time on 6's Stage 2 was like 5 seconds. 

I would definitely say 5's Stage 2 was the most stringent time wise, because it seemed like there was zero room for error or hesitation, but 15-17's was a lot more difficult in raw terms because the obstacles themselves were a lot more failable/fatally punished mistakes more. Which is more difficult depends on the competitor; bigger and slower competitors would defo find the former harder, but for those where speed isn't an issue (e.g. Nagano who can beast Spider Walks), the latter has more room to be caught out unexpectedly.

7-9 was for sure easier than the original Stage 2, because realistically all they had in addition was the Chain Reaction, which, while it did cause a couple of fails during that period, didn't warrant a 40-50 second time bonus. You could tell from the way that competitors were rushing the original Stage 2 yet on Sasuke 7, they were really taking their time, because they could. Especially considering that obstacles like the Spider Walk, Goren Hammer, and Wall Lifting became much more of an issue when competitors were forced to go fast; people got stuck under walls, lost balance on the beam, slipped on the spider walls, etc. 

On the topic of clear rates, you can't really compare them because the original era's Stage 1 was so much easier that we had a far worse overall Stage 2 field who were doomed to fail there no matter what. Whereas the Golden Era often had clears in the high single/low double digits from far more elite competitors who had a higher chance of clearing Stage 2.

Generally when there are easier Stage 1s, Stage 2's clear rate is lower because more fodder competitors get there. Look at Sasuke 34. We had 24 clears on Stage 1 and only 9 on Stage 2, then with 35 the clear rate was 5/8 because most of those Stage 2 fodder competitors got eliminated by the tougher Stage 1, and only the stronger competitors, who inherently had a better chance at making Stage 3, cleared.

[ChiBiJKT48]

Not necessary the case.

While some of the obstacles might be easier or harder in one or another way, most of competitors who cleared First Stage in first six tournaments are bunch of nobodies. All-Stars is established in SASUKE 6 and from renewal onwards *SASUKE 5*, most of the competitors that cleared First Stage are regulars *case like Hatakeda in SASUKE 6 or Jordan in SASUKE 8 rarely happened*.

[sackeshi]

Oct 13, 2024 12:17:33 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Oct 13, 2024 7:00:46 GMT -5 sackeshi said:

I've been doing a Japanese broadcast run through and it just seems like it's easier.

The clear rate in Sasuke 1-6 was 42%, 30% if you remove the Sasuke 6 outlier.

The clear rate doesn't dip below 50% again until shin Sasuke.

I don't think you can group 7-17 together because of the difference in difficulty over that period. 7's Stage 2 was 90 seconds, and had an unfailable back half. 17's was 65 seconds yet had the Balance Tank and Metal Spin. 

Similar story with 5 and 6. The Tackle Machine wasted a few more seconds than the Narrow, which with that stringent a time limit, made a huge difference, especially when you consider the fastest clear time on 6's Stage 2 was like 5 seconds. 

I would definitely say 5's Stage 2 was the most stringent time wise, because it seemed like there was zero room for error or hesitation, but 15-17's was a lot more difficult in raw terms because the obstacles themselves were a lot more failable/fatally punished mistakes more. Which is more difficult depends on the competitor; bigger and slower competitors would defo find the former harder, but for those where speed isn't an issue (e.g. Nagano who can beast Spider Walks), the latter has more room to be caught out unexpectedly.

7-9 was for sure easier than the original Stage 2, because realistically all they had in addition was the Chain Reaction, which, while it did cause a couple of fails during that period, didn't warrant a 40-50 second time bonus. You could tell from the way that competitors were rushing the original Stage 2 yet on Sasuke 7, they were really taking their time, because they could. Especially considering that obstacles like the Spider Walk, Goren Hammer, and Wall Lifting became much more of an issue when competitors were forced to go fast; people got stuck under walls, lost balance on the beam, slipped on the spider walls, etc. 

On the topic of clear rates, you can't really compare them because the original era's Stage 1 was so much easier that we had a far worse overall Stage 2 field who were doomed to fail there no matter what. Whereas the Golden Era often had clears in the high single/low double digits from far more elite competitors who had a higher chance of clearing Stage 2.

Generally when there are easier Stage 1s, Stage 2's clear rate is lower because more fodder competitors get there. Look at Sasuke 34. We had 24 clears on Stage 1 and only 9 on Stage 2, then with 35 the clear rate was 5/8 because most of those Stage 2 fodder competitors got eliminated by the tougher Stage 1, and only the stronger competitors, who inherently had a better chance at making Stage 3, cleared.

I don't think the toughness of stage 1 matters that much because the second stage was all about speed and rushing made people make mistakes, and even when only 13 cleared in sasuke 3 only 6 cleared stage 2.

I agree that they should have only added the chain reaction and maybe the new spider climb but made the time limit like 60 seconds. Basically I think until they added the metal spin the course was way to easy even the ballence tank only took out a few.

I guess we could put pre metal spin and post metal spin into a catagory in the 7-17 stage 2.

[dakohosu]

Oct 13, 2024 17:37:10 GMT -5 sackeshi said:

Oct 13, 2024 12:17:33 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

I don't think the toughness of stage 1 matters that much because the second stage was all about speed and rushing made people make mistakes, and even when only 13 cleared in sasuke 3 only 6 cleared stage 2.

I agree that they should have only added the chain reaction and maybe the new spider climb but made the time limit like 60 seconds. Basically I think until they added the metal spin the course was way to easy even the ballence tank only took out a few.

I guess we could put pre metal spin and post metal spin into a catagory in the 7-17 stage 2.

If you're going off of clear rates then it absolutely does matter because an easier Stage 1 means an overall worse Stage 2 field and hence more Stage 2 fails. Had 1-4's Stage 1 been considerably tougher than it was, we wouldn't have got the sleuth of randos clearing and more of the remaining competitors would've been sufficiently elite to clear Stage 2. Especially considering that the OG Stage 2 was considerably tougher than Stage 1 so that difficulty gap would've allowed many to clear Stage 1 despite having almost no chance on Stage 2. 

Yeah I don't know what made them think 90 seconds was a good time limit, after every Stage 2 prior being 50 seconds, especially with the Spider Walk also being shorter. They must have assumed the Chain Reaction was going to take way longer than it actually did or something. No wonder they pretty much reduced the time limit every tournament since then (except for 8 but that was due to bad weather).

Eh, I think the difficulty was a gradual increase over time. We got time limit reductions every tournament, then we had Balance Tank, then Metal Spin, then buffed Metal Spin, and so forth. 15 and 17's were definitely the hardest in terms of raw skill required but they were more culminations of gradual changes over the course of that Stage 2.