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Post by zoran on Sept 26, 2024 14:31:53 GMT -5
The crazy Cliffhangers have dominated modern stage 3's on Sasuke (imo for the worse). Do you think competitors would prefer if it was completely removed, however the other obstacles are majorly buffed?
Buff
Flying Bars - 5 cradles with 5 jumps (including the jump to the sidewinder which is lengthened).
Sidewinder - 5 pillars, all of them spin and drop, pillars 2 and 4 spin a little faster and pillar 3 plunges a lot further forcing competitors to climb up it.
Swing Edge - 5 swing sets - 4 jumps with the final one being to an ANW style falling shelf one.
Vertical Limit Burst - The transition in the red part is 60cm.
Pipe Slider - No rest, competitors can shake out there arms on a resting bar. The track has an elevation like the bar glider except the jump is the equivalent of the final rung of the 18-24 salmon ladder. The dismount gap is the same as 14-17.
Removing the cliffhanger would remove a lot of the randomness/bad luck that comes with those transitions however this course would be a massive endurance test. Which course do you think competitors would prefer.
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Post by dakohosu on Sept 26, 2024 14:52:22 GMT -5
The crazy Cliffhangers have dominated modern stage 3's on Sasuke (imo for the worse). Do you think competitors would prefer if it was completely removed, however the other obstacles are majorly buffed? Buff Flying Bars - 5 cradles with 5 jumps (including the jump to the sidewinder which is lengthened). Sidewinder - 5 pillars, all of them spin and drop, pillars 2 and 4 spin a little faster and pillar 3 plunges a lot further forcing competitors to climb up it. Swing Edge - 5 swing sets - 4 jumps with the final one being to an ANW style falling shelf one. Vertical Limit Burst - The transition in the red part is 60cm. Pipe Slider - No rest, competitors can shake out there arms on a resting bar. The track has an elevation like the bar glider except the jump is the equivalent of the final rung of the 18-24 salmon ladder. The dismount gap is the same as 14-17. Removing the cliffhanger would remove a lot of the randomness/bad luck that comes with those transitions however this course would be a massive endurance test. Which course do you think competitors would prefer. Personally, I'd 100% prefer buff. I don't mind the entire course being harder if it means that fails are a lot less predictable and realistically anyone can fail anywhere. The monotony of the Cliffhanger fails is where I have an issue, firstly because 70% of attempts will predictably reach and fail the Cliffhanger (e.g. Jun, Hioki) which removes a lot of the excitement from what should be the most nail-biting stage, and the fact it seems to be most of these competitors' absolute hard limit doesn't help. Then you factor in the RNG and you now have predictable fails, and less predictable but unfair bulls**t fails (e.g. Gil and Yoshi in 41). But knowing that both 1) any obstacle is genuinely lethal yet 2) most competitors have a reasonable shot at doing well as they're not hardlined by a Cliffhanger fail, creates a load more suspense and hence excitement. I'd actually say this seems pretty feasible for the stronger guys who have the technique of most of these obstacles locked in, like Keitaro, Yusuke, etc. I say technique because the key will be to complete the first three obstacles as fast as possible to avoid wearing out grip before the BURST. But at the same time, because those three obstacles are considerably longer and more taxing, it'll ween out the weaker guys who'll just run out of steam, rather than in 41 where even guys like Mutou got to the Dimension despite spending 3+ minutes on the first two obstacles. The only one I'd say is a bit overkill is the VLB+Pipe Slider having no rest; bear in mind that the pipe rolls which makes shaking out 10x harder than on a regular bar. Maybe have it so you can reach a green resting bar that has the upper part blocked off so you can't lock your legs on to it, but is there for you to shake out before transitioning to the pipe. In terms of whether the competitors themselves would prefer it, really depends. The pre-Cliffhanger failers like Suzuki definitely not as this would thwart their chances of doing well. Whereas competitors who've been wronged by the RNG might be relieved; especially someone like Yoshiyuki who's incredibly explosive across the first half but has had some bad luck on the Cliffhanger. I'm not sure about Jun or Hioki, despite their perennial Cliffhanger fails, because realistically they run the risk of not even getting to where the Cliffhanger would typically be, and have almost no chance against the BURST regardless. |
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Post by zoran on Sept 26, 2024 14:57:55 GMT -5
The crazy Cliffhangers have dominated modern stage 3's on Sasuke (imo for the worse). Do you think competitors would prefer if it was completely removed, however the other obstacles are majorly buffed? Buff Flying Bars - 5 cradles with 5 jumps (including the jump to the sidewinder which is lengthened). Sidewinder - 5 pillars, all of them spin and drop, pillars 2 and 4 spin a little faster and pillar 3 plunges a lot further forcing competitors to climb up it. Swing Edge - 5 swing sets - 4 jumps with the final one being to an ANW style falling shelf one. Vertical Limit Burst - The transition in the red part is 60cm. Pipe Slider - No rest, competitors can shake out there arms on a resting bar. The track has an elevation like the bar glider except the jump is the equivalent of the final rung of the 18-24 salmon ladder. The dismount gap is the same as 14-17. Removing the cliffhanger would remove a lot of the randomness/bad luck that comes with those transitions however this course would be a massive endurance test. Which course do you think competitors would prefer. Personally, I'd 100% prefer buff. I don't mind the entire course being harder if it means that fails are a lot less predictable and realistically anyone can fail anywhere. The monotony of the Cliffhanger fails is where I have an issue, firstly because 70% of attempts will predictably reach and fail the Cliffhanger (e.g. Jun, Hioki) which removes a lot of the excitement from what should be the most nail-biting stage, and the fact it seems to be most of these competitors' absolute hard limit doesn't help. Then you factor in the RNG and you now have predictable fails, and less predictable but unfair bulls**t fails (e.g. Gil and Yoshi in 41). But knowing that both 1) any obstacle is genuinely lethal yet 2) most competitors have a reasonable shot at doing well as they're not hardlined by a Cliffhanger fail, creates a load more suspense and hence excitement. I'd actually say this seems pretty feasible for the stronger guys who have the technique of most of these obstacles locked in, like Keitaro, Yusuke, etc. I say technique because the key will be to complete the first three obstacles as fast as possible to avoid wearing out grip before the BURST. But at the same time, because those three obstacles are considerably longer and more taxing, it'll ween out the weaker guys who'll just run out of steam, rather than in 41 where even guys like Mutou got to the Dimension despite spending 3+ minutes on the first two obstacles. The only one I'd say is a bit overkill is the VLB+Pipe Slider having no rest; bear in mind that the pipe rolls which makes shaking out 10x harder than on a regular bar. Maybe have it so you can reach a green resting bar that has the upper part blocked off so you can't lock your legs on to it, but is there for you to shake out before transitioning to the pipe. In terms of whether the competitors themselves would prefer it, really depends. The pre-Cliffhanger failers like Suzuki definitely not as this would thwart their chances of doing well. Whereas competitors who've been wronged by the RNG might be relieved; especially someone like Yoshiyuki who's incredibly explosive across the first half but has had some bad luck on the Cliffhanger. I'm not sure about Jun or Hioki, despite their perennial Cliffhanger fails, because realistically they run the risk of not even getting to where the Cliffhanger would typically be, and have almost no chance against the BURST regardless. The bar between the burst and pipe slider would be stationary. |
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Sept 26, 2024 16:53:58 GMT -5
There is a reason that Third Stage pre-SASUKE 28 is fun. Nobody knows where they could fail. You got an easy but demanding first obstacle in Rumbling Dice, Body Prop is as hell as you could imagine, Lamp Grasper, Devil Steps, and even an easier Curtain Cling could still catch people out, Jumping Bars combo, hell, even Chain See-Saw prevent three Finalists in SASUKE 27. So, yeah, I'm fine with Cliff Dimension being dropped if that means every obstacles got buffed.
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azn
Komiya Rie
Say His Name and He Appears *clap* *clap*
Posts: 535
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Post by azn on Sept 26, 2024 18:12:18 GMT -5
Honestly, this feels like a stage in NNL/WNL, and I mean that in a positive light. I'm pretty sure NNL/WNL use a version of the cliffhanger for one of it's stages, though I'm certain it's a variant with only jump (and I'm also pretty sure you're allowed to jump facing the ledge) though I could be completely wrong so please correct me if I am, I haven't seen a full on tournament of there's in quite some time.
The point is, this is something that I'm sure is currently being done to some degree, on a third stage (or really an upper body centered stage) in a Ninja League/Tournament based format that doesn't utilize a cliffhanger in any capacity, and on the subject of NNL/WNL again, I've seen some clips of some of there stages and the obstacles there are creative and difficult. Really fun to watch
There is that selfish part of me though that kind of wants a sixth obstacle, though I wouldn't necessarily know where to put it. Perhaps a strength drainer prior to Sidewinders? Maybe with that strength drainer in place, perhaps have the first 3 obstacles consecutive with each other, with no platform for brakes?
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Post by loboticialtree on Sept 26, 2024 18:47:55 GMT -5
It has to be a Cliffhanger-less Stage 3. Reason being is that if buffs are added to the rest of the stage, Stage 3 isn't just mostly watching people fail the Cliffhanger.
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brz0ny
Jessie Graff
We need Ryo Fail Guessing Game for Sasuke 42
Posts: 1,039
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Post by brz0ny on Sept 27, 2024 4:08:59 GMT -5
Considering half of them are CH fodder, definitely second one, though most of them would become VL fodder instead though
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Post by dakohosu on Sept 27, 2024 5:14:52 GMT -5
Considering half of them are CH fodder, definitely second one, though most of them would become VL fodder instead though Most of them would probably fail before the VL, which I'm not adverse to as it splits the damage done throughout different obstacles rather than like 80% Cliffhanger, 10% VL, 10% (Yusuke) clear, which is pretty much what I see happening with the RNG Dimension and BURST. If we're going by 41's cohort I'd say. Yamashita: Sidewinder or Swing Edge Kajihara: Swing Edge or BURST Wasabi: Flying Bar or Sidewinder Hioki: Sidewinder Miyaoka: BURST but possibly earlier as it was his Stage 3 debut Jun: Probably BURST as I can't see him failing any of the dynamic lache stuff but he's failing immediately Mutou: Flying Bar or Sidewinder Araki: Sidewinder Keitaro: Swing Edge or BURST Gil through Yusuke: BURST In reality we had 10 Dimension fails and 4 BURST fails, and one Sidewinder choke (Araki) that would've ended up being the 11th Dimension fail most likely. |
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