Moments that made you quit Sasuke

[darthvaderlim]

What are some moments that almost made you quit Sasuke? For me, it would be the All-Stars retirement in 28. I lost interest after Nagano failed the Wall, and considering that Stage Two was too easy and everyone failed the Crazy Cliffhanger, it didn't help matters. Although, I did like some of the returning obstacles in Stage Three. Sasuke 29's Stage Two is also another one. What do you think?

[dakohosu]

I'll admit I've actually quit Sasuke a couple of times, due to a number of reasons like sucky tournaments and also life stuff like university causing me to focus on other things. If I lose time to focus on something I'll inevitably drift away from it.

The first was after 26. I'd been into Sasuke by about a year at this point and was super excited to see my first live tournament, and then we got..... that. Most of the results were spoiled early by G4, and coming off of the back of 23-25, the editing and general structure of the tournament left a hell of a lot to be desired. I was quite young at the time and hence impressionable, and used Sasuke as a means to start training myself. 26's results and the general experience didn't leave me with much motivation to stay invested, especially as I was aware that Sasuke was pending cancellation at that point. In retrospect I don't think 26 is as bad a tournament as I remember it to be (I rank 28, 29, 33, and 34 below it, whereas beforehand it was Number 1 worst), we had a great course and a lot of shock fails, it was merely the editing that ruined it, but obviously the editing impacts your first impression massively, and your first impression of a tournament stays with you for a while.

The second was after 32-33, mainly because the UCCH+VLK combo was pretty much established to be impossible by that point, and so I just felt like there wasn't a whole lot of point in staying invested because it would be YEARS before someone would finally be able to break through. Part of the excitement of Sasuke is hypothesising results and changes etc (which is why forums like this flourish during the few weeks before tournaments), but a lot of that was vanquished by that combo ending tournaments before they even began. This is why I rank 33 and 34 so low on my list, because no matter where or how someone failed, there was zero tangible impact as at best they would've failed said combo. 32 less so because at least that tournament was a renewal and the combo was unproven, so I actually had an exciting time watching that live.

For some reason I weirdly wasn't put off by 28 or 29, even though now in retrospect those tournaments are my bottom two (29 being worst and 28 being second worst). I think with 28 I was just excited to see Sasuke return with a half-decent renewal; even if a tournament sucks, you're still grateful for it existing when you thought it was all over. The All-Star retirement for me didn't hit me as badly as it does now, mainly because I wasn't old or experienced enough to understand the impact they had on the show and hence how heinous retiring them would've been (I actually remember thinking they voluntarily retired, rather than being forcefully retired, which may have had a hand in the above sentiment). With 29 I didn't realise for a long time that they actually modulated the jet strength of the Backstream, had I known that from the get go I would've hated that tournament a lot sooner, as it stood I just thought Stage 2 was a bit too hard rather than straight up bulls**t unfair. But needless to say those tournaments have aged some of the poorest out of any, mainly because of the baffling decisions employed by Inui during those tournaments that he almost immediately redacted after realising the nature of said decisions.

[Cosmic Castaway]

More or less in S24 where a lot of events made it tragic such as Nagano failing the Warped Wall just as he was going to dismount, Takeda's last chance to get past stage 3, and the results of the final stage in which besides Kong's accident, I can't help but think Yuuji cheater using a different set of shoes and I think Yamada noted that himself and said that Yuuji's Kanzen should not have counted.

And then his somewhat legit second Kanzen in a lighter s27. By now, all of you can tell he is my least favorite victor.

[Ninja Relaxer]

Mar 12, 2024 13:08:40 GMT -5 Cosmic Castaway said:

I can't help but think Yuuji cheater using a different set of shoes and I think Yamada noted that himself and said that Yuuji's Kanzen should not have counted.

I've never heard the whole story here. What was it about Yuuji's shoes that made his kanzen controversial?

[Cosmic Castaway]

Yuuji in S24 used something called tabi shoes which even the hosts were wondering if those would help him achieve Kanzen and he did. What I don't like is how before and afterwards, all Kanzens were achieved wearing the usual spray on shoes with the normal size. Yuuji's size looked like giant fisherman's size.

[dakohosu]

Mar 12, 2024 22:05:34 GMT -5 Cosmic Castaway said:

Yuuji in S24 used something called tabi shoes which even the hosts were wondering if those would help him achieve Kanzen and he did. What I don't like is how before and afterwards, all Kanzens were achieved wearing the usual spray on shoes with the normal size. Yuuji's size looked like giant fisherman's size.

The simple fact of the matter is that if Yuuji's shoes were indeed illegal, he wouldn't have been allowed to wear them in the first place. It's the kind of thing that they'd stop you from doing before the attempt rather than allowing it, then disqualifying, to avoid controversy or having to do re-runs etc. Kong, Okuyama, and Hashimoto also wore incredibly similar high tabi boots for the Final that very same tournament. Okuyama's were by far the highest, they basically went up to his knees. 

The whole thing started only because Yamada pointed it out, but he's not exactly an impartial source of information given his bitterness of seeing someone achieve something he never could despite having given up everything to do so. At the time he was pretty well known for his jealousy and disdain towards others doing well when he was pretty deep into his decline, as well as also being known for manipulating his way into getting what he wanted, like claiming Akiyama cheated on Quick Muscle so he could win, and lying several times to avoid getting disqualified in Sasuke 12. Not to mention that the claim in question was massively hypocritical given that he used tape on his shoes in Sasuke 9 and obviously tried to get away with using gloves on the Spider Walk in 12. 

Ultimately no one else brought it up and he wasn't disqualified or prevented from using them, and others have used very similar shoes for the Final before, including on the 5-17 version where grippier soles would've provided more of an advantage on the Spider Walk, so I'd say he won fair and square. It's probably no coincidence that Yamada claimed that Yuuji specifically wore illegal shoes when he was the one who won, and no one else. 

Re your point about 27, that is a fair point, but ultimately he was still the only one who won, and with how much time he had left, he would've likely still won even if the rope had been the full size of the tower.

[arsenette]

Oh dear God Yuuji didn't cheat. They would have never let him on the course if he had something "illegal". Yamada is notorious for trash talking. He's a hopeless narcissist and was admonished for besmirching Yuuji's reputation. But because the show itself loves spreading controversy (they think it drives engagement) and making drama (inventing things out of thin air - like people being rivals or protoge's or even friends) they made it sound like that by selectively editing it to sound that way.

Anyway my final straw was coming to the realization that Sasuke Rising is not the Sasuke I fell in love with. Under Higuchi (love him or hate him) you were invited back on merit. Sans someone being an asshat and breaking a small set of rules you were invited back no questions asked. Under Inui however, it was a clic. Kiss his a** and he would make you a star. Gone were the days you were invited because you passed Stage 1 and the whole show became super political. It was infuriating having to navigate through the clics and fights for power once Higuchi was gone. Show results and whatnot are meaningless to me since you can't control that - since that is the beauty of sport and why people cheer for their favorites. When you couldn't even be invited back despite being good but someone on the production team didn't like you or wanted to promote their chosen favorites is when I officially checked out.

[dakohosu]

Mar 13, 2024 11:48:59 GMT -5 arsenette said:

Anyway my final straw was coming to the realization that Sasuke Rising is not the Sasuke I fell in love with. Under Higuchi (love him or hate him) you were invited back on merit. Sans someone being an asshat and breaking a small set of rules you were invited back no questions asked. Under Inui however, it was a clic. Kiss his a** and he would make you a star. Gone were the days you were invited because you passed Stage 1 and the whole show became super political. It was infuriating having to navigate through the clics and fights for power once Higuchi was gone. Show results and whatnot are meaningless to me since you can't control that - since that is the beauty of sport and why people cheer for their favorites. When you couldn't even be invited back despite being good but someone on the production team didn't like you or wanted to promote their chosen favorites is when I officially checked out.

Do you know why Okuyama and Kong etc. weren't invited for 28, yet we got a load of randos and hence an incredibly sparse competitive field that tournament? It always struck me as incredibly baffling as to how some of these guys got on the show despite having no talent or driving factor.

[arsenette]

Mar 13, 2024 11:55:50 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Mar 13, 2024 11:48:59 GMT -5 arsenette said:

Anyway my final straw was coming to the realization that Sasuke Rising is not the Sasuke I fell in love with. Under Higuchi (love him or hate him) you were invited back on merit. Sans someone being an asshat and breaking a small set of rules you were invited back no questions asked. Under Inui however, it was a clic. Kiss his a** and he would make you a star. Gone were the days you were invited because you passed Stage 1 and the whole show became super political. It was infuriating having to navigate through the clics and fights for power once Higuchi was gone. Show results and whatnot are meaningless to me since you can't control that - since that is the beauty of sport and why people cheer for their favorites. When you couldn't even be invited back despite being good but someone on the production team didn't like you or wanted to promote their chosen favorites is when I officially checked out.

Do you know why Okuyama and Kong etc. weren't invited for 28, yet we got a load of randos and hence an incredibly sparse competitive field that tournament? It always struck me as incredibly baffling as to how some of these guys got on the show despite having no talent or driving factor.

I think Okuyama had surgery (iirc) on his knee. You'd have to check my notes from back then on my blog because that did come up. This was during a time where we didn't have a list of people who were invited. I know I talked to Inui a LOT during that time period (after 29) but my focus on that time was the format. EVERYONE hated the picture in picture, the All-Star Retirements and the format change of the show so he was very defensive in saying he just wanted to blow up the old era and start a new one where he didn't have so many call backs to an era that was now gone. That said I know Okuyama was definitely invited but I think he was injured - he's a former World Sprinter for Japan so he's not in the same category as someone like Kong who was famous for being on the show. A lot of people were not invited back because Inui was going in a different direction and 28 was supposed to be a "graduation" of sorts and put the M9 era in the rear view mirror. That.. didn't happen. He was not happy about the developments. Nor was he happy with the direction the US took by abandoning Sasuke in order to promote ANW. It was a chaotic time.

[dakohosu]

Mar 13, 2024 12:15:44 GMT -5 arsenette said:

Mar 13, 2024 11:55:50 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

I think Okuyama had surgery (iirc) on his knee. You'd have to check my notes from back then on my blog because that did come up. This was during a time where we didn't have a list of people who were invited. I know I talked to Inui a LOT during that time period (after 29) but my focus on that time was the format. EVERYONE hated the picture in picture, the All-Star Retirements and the format change of the show so he was very defensive in saying he just wanted to blow up the old era and start a new one where he didn't have so many call backs to an era that was now gone. That said I know Okuyama was definitely invited but I think he was injured - he's a former World Sprinter for Japan so he's not in the same category as someone like Kong who was famous for being on the show. A lot of people were not invited back because Inui was going in a different direction and 28 was supposed to be a "graduation" of sorts and put the M9 era in the rear view mirror. That.. didn't happen. He was not happy about the developments. Nor was he happy with the direction the US took by abandoning Sasuke in order to promote ANW. It was a chaotic time.

I'll have another check re Okuyama, but I believe he applied and didn't get selected as he was shown somewhere (the Navi perhaps) in the group of applicants. That at least implies he wasn't given an outright invite, he had to apply. He injured his leg on the Cross Slider during 29, may have had surgery after that, and then retired. Kong was a weird one because he was present at 28 and I believe he was a tester for the Backstream (someone bald wearing red shorts was shown testing it in the Stage 2 intro, he was at the tournament, and has been a tester before, so must've been him).

Someone made a point that veterans like them may not have been invited to make more of a case for retiring the All-Stars for being "too old" or "past their prime", which would've been considerably weakened when other competitors in their late 30s/40s did well, which at least Okuyama certainly would've given his consistency. It's one of those things which I'm not sure I believe but if you think about it kind of makes sense and probably wouldn't have put it past Inui?

Also re the All-Star retirement, was he seriously planning on outright disallowing them from ever competing again initially?

[arsenette]

Mar 13, 2024 12:28:58 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Mar 13, 2024 12:15:44 GMT -5 arsenette said:

I think Okuyama had surgery (iirc) on his knee. You'd have to check my notes from back then on my blog because that did come up. This was during a time where we didn't have a list of people who were invited. I know I talked to Inui a LOT during that time period (after 29) but my focus on that time was the format. EVERYONE hated the picture in picture, the All-Star Retirements and the format change of the show so he was very defensive in saying he just wanted to blow up the old era and start a new one where he didn't have so many call backs to an era that was now gone. That said I know Okuyama was definitely invited but I think he was injured - he's a former World Sprinter for Japan so he's not in the same category as someone like Kong who was famous for being on the show. A lot of people were not invited back because Inui was going in a different direction and 28 was supposed to be a "graduation" of sorts and put the M9 era in the rear view mirror. That.. didn't happen. He was not happy about the developments. Nor was he happy with the direction the US took by abandoning Sasuke in order to promote ANW. It was a chaotic time.

I'll have another check re Okuyama, but I believe he applied and didn't get selected as he was shown somewhere (the Navi perhaps) in the group of applicants. That at least implies he wasn't given an outright invite, he had to apply. He injured his leg on the Cross Slider during 29, may have had surgery after that, and then retired. Kong was a weird one because he was present at 28 and I believe he was a tester for the Backstream (someone bald wearing red shorts was shown testing it in the Stage 2 intro, he was at the tournament, and has been a tester before, so must've been him).

Someone made a point that veterans like them may not have been invited to make more of a case for retiring the All-Stars for being "too old" or "past their prime", which would've been considerably weakened when other competitors in their late 30s/40s did well, which at least Okuyama certainly would've given his consistency. It's one of those things which I'm not sure I believe but if you think about it kind of makes sense and probably wouldn't have put it past Inui?

Also re the All-Star retirement, was he seriously planning on outright disallowing them from ever competing again initially?

Your memory is better than mine that's for sure. That was 12 years ago. Goes in line with the "wanting to go a different direction" that Inui wanted. Remember that he didn't want to be there and the only way he was convinced was that he would be allowed to blow up the show and start over. Invites to the show is what changes the dynamic. The dirty little secret about the audition shows (the push ups with interview) is that they already made up their mind before that day on who was going to be invited. At most they pick up 1 new one but for the most part it's all a show. That was the change that I hated the most and why I quickly became disenchanted with the show and why I argued with Inui.. a lot. He wanted the reality aspect and I wanted the sport. We all know where it is now and that's the reason why so many of us old timers just checked out.

[arsenette]

Mar 13, 2024 12:28:58 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Also re the All-Star retirement, was he seriously planning on outright disallowing them from ever competing again initially?

Yes. He was requested to come back and he refused to come back and "save Higuchi's show" 4 times. Shingo stepped in at the end to plead with him to come back. Inui insisted he would only come back if he could do what HE wanted and that was to get rid of what he felt was holding Sasuke back - and that was the image Higuchi created. That included the All-Stars. The All-Stars were the creation of Higuchi as an answer to losing Kane Kosugi and losing Banzuke. So for Inui, that era was something that the public had to be weaned off. Shingo agreed because he believed Inui was the only one to save the show and if it meant to retire them entirely, he thought it would be best for the show to continue. Akiyama, Bunpei and Nagano were all in on retiring. Takeda was not (not even close) and Shingo was (as a sacrifice). Yamada.. is an a** but everyone knows that. He just wanted a Hero's farewell and that's what ended up happening. Takeda was the only one that balked and said it at the end of the show (to everyone's amazement). Shingo thought of it as a way to tag along and said "If Takeda is staying, I'll support him". Then Nagano ended up being shamed by his wife because he had a poor performance and retired in disgrace so he wanted 1 more run to redeem himself. The rest is history. But to answer your question - yes absolutely. It was the one reason he accepted the job - to retire the All-Stars and create his own version of the show according to the image he had in mind.

[xelA197]

Inui is a big scoundrel, no longer call up or forcing do the trials at good competitors like Ugajin, Nakagawa, Igarashi, Taiga Hoshikawa, Yuuya Kadono, Sakuma and Wataru Mori and instead give infinite space to braggarts like Seiya, Fuwa-chan, Torisawa or rando comedians that takes three ice ages to make a leap is absolutely baffling stuff, and gives further reason to the fact that Inui wants to turn SASUKE into the Big Brother. Imagine, if Keitaro, Tada and Araki had not been successful in their first appearances, they would have been brutally kicked off and by now they would be unknowns people forced to do the trials.

[Cosmic Castaway]

Arsenette has good points and even though the guy who you either love or hate Inui brought it back, I was along for the ride but Yusuke is winning too much which much like Yuuji makes the results repetitive and boring.

[darthvaderlim]

Mar 11, 2024 8:06:02 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

For some reason I weirdly wasn't put off by 28 or 29, even though now in retrospect those tournaments are my bottom two (29 being worst and 28 being second worst). I think with 28 I was just excited to see Sasuke return with a half-decent renewal; even if a tournament sucks, you're still grateful for it existing when you thought it was all over. The All-Star retirement for me didn't hit me as badly as it does now, mainly because I wasn't old or experienced enough to understand the impact they had on the show and hence how heinous retiring them would've been (I actually remember thinking they voluntarily retired, rather than being forcefully retired, which may have had a hand in the above sentiment). With 29 I didn't realise for a long time that they actually modulated the jet strength of the Backstream, had I known that from the get go I would've hated that tournament a lot sooner, as it stood I just thought Stage 2 was a bit too hard rather than straight up bulls**t unfair. But needless to say those tournaments have aged some of the poorest out of any, mainly because of the baffling decisions employed by Inui during those tournaments that he almost immediately redacted after realising the nature of said decisions.

The thing about 28, was that I was also excited when Sasuke came back from cancellation, but once I found out about the All-Stars retirement, I lost whatever excitement I had before and when all of them failed Stage One, it felt like salt in the wound 

[darthvaderlim]

Mar 13, 2024 13:08:04 GMT -5 xelA197 said:

Inui is a big scoundrel, no longer call up or forcing do the trials at good competitors like Ugajin, Nakagawa, Igarashi, Taiga Hoshikawa, Yuuya Kadono, Sakuma and Wataru Mori and instead give infinite space to braggarts like Seiya, Fuwa-chan, Torisawa or rando comedians that takes three ice ages to make a leap is absolutely baffling stuff, and gives further reason to the fact that Inui wants to turn SASUKE into the Big Brother. Imagine, if Keitaro, Tada and Araki had not been successful in their first appearances, they would have been brutally kicked off and by now they would be unknowns people forced to do the trials.

I think it's because obstacle course shows aren't as popular as it used to be in the 2000s, and Inui knows ratings are what keeps Sasuke alive, so comedians/celebrities are more marketable than some everyday man like Ugajin, Nakagawa, Igarashi, etc.. It sucks, but I've learned to grow accustomed to it over the years 

[dakohosu]

Mar 15, 2024 4:16:37 GMT -5 darthvaderlim said:

Mar 13, 2024 13:08:04 GMT -5 xelA197 said:

Inui is a big scoundrel, no longer call up or forcing do the trials at good competitors like Ugajin, Nakagawa, Igarashi, Taiga Hoshikawa, Yuuya Kadono, Sakuma and Wataru Mori and instead give infinite space to braggarts like Seiya, Fuwa-chan, Torisawa or rando comedians that takes three ice ages to make a leap is absolutely baffling stuff, and gives further reason to the fact that Inui wants to turn SASUKE into the Big Brother. Imagine, if Keitaro, Tada and Araki had not been successful in their first appearances, they would have been brutally kicked off and by now they would be unknowns people forced to do the trials.

I think it's because obstacle course shows aren't as popular as it used to be in the 2000s, and Inui knows ratings are what keeps Sasuke alive, so comedians/celebrities are more marketable than some everyday man like Ugajin, Nakagawa, Igarashi, etc.. It sucks, but I've learned to grow accustomed to it over the years 

Yep, it's unfortunately a necessary evil. We might not like it but have to accept it as that's what keeps Sasuke afloat. With the rise of social media and as you mentioned, generally declining interest in game shows, celebrities that can draw in the general masses are ultimately the key to keeping Sasuke relevant, driving higher ratings, and hence preventing the show from cancellation. Which, for all our criticisms of recent tournaments, no one wants.

For what it's worth, while I fundamentally disagree with a lot of Inui's methods towards culling competitors with high potential, bad editing, arguably going too far in terms of oversaturation of celebrities (many get cut which begs the question why even have them?) etc. I do appreciate that he does clearly look out for the fanbase as well as seeking ratings through the YouTube channel.

Ultimately it kills two birds with one stone. The main broadcast attracts the masses who tune into watch Snow Man etc. to drive the much needed ratings, while the YouTube channel satisfies the hardcore fanbase by showing the digested runs in full and competitor backstories etc.

[arsenette]

Just to clarify who does what in terms of invites. TBS as a company gets the talentos (what we call local celebrities). They only deal with the main companies (Talent agencies) and the companies decide who they are sending. TBS and certainly Inui don't control who gets sent to Sasuke. They are only told how many slots to keep open on their roster as part of the negotiations. TBS also handles the YouTube Channel and not Inui. He has literally nothing to do with the YouTube channel. Zero. He doesn't even edit what you see in the runs on YouTube. He only edits the show as a whole from the raw footage and 1-2 commercials. That's it.

[dakohosu]

Mar 15, 2024 9:14:58 GMT -5 arsenette said:

Just to clarify who does what in terms of invites. TBS as a company gets the talentos (what we call local celebrities). They only deal with the main companies (Talent agencies) and the companies decide who they are sending. TBS and certainly Inui don't control who gets sent to Sasuke. They are only told how many slots to keep open on their roster as part of the negotiations. TBS also handles the YouTube Channel and not Inui. He has literally nothing to do with the YouTube channel. Zero. He doesn't even edit what you see in the runs on YouTube. He only edits the show as a whole from the raw footage and 1-2 commercials. That's it.

Right, thanks for the clarity. Well, I guess the more I learn, the more positives about modern Sasuke I can't credit Inui directly for, while more of the negatives are directly associated with him.... lol.