What if Rolling Log replaced Backstream in 38?

[Dazed (Wiin)]

We'll ignore 37 because the rain would have made it very awkward... (unless you choose the third option)

So before the Rolling Log came back (currently the second stage's newest obstacle), the newest obstacle was the Ring Slider, which it replaced. I gather many of the people of these forums dislike the Backstream, so what if the Backstream was replaced by the Rolling Log and then we kept the Ring Slider as the first obstacle? I don't see this as a way to fix the current second stage by any means, but maybe it could have made it a little bit better (a little less stagnation, maybe)? Or worse? Let me know what you think! 

Or there could be the Ring Slider replacing the Backstream and Rolling Log still moved to the first obstacle, a random option I just thought of... 

In either case, I think the Spider Drop might need to go to give either obstacles the elevation they need. Alternatively, maybe just have another random climb like a brick wall or something. 

[m4tt3r0x]

Not a bad idea. The log dizzies up competitors before the next immediate obstacle or two, but I'd personally keep it before the Salmon Ladder still.

[dakohosu]

I do think it would be a cool idea as it would wreak havoc directly on the Reverse Conveyer and Wall Lift, both of which I’d imagine would be incredibly challenging when disorientated from the log (if not slightly dangerous idk?).

That said I voted that I like how it is is honestly because I’d rather have the Backstream than the Ring Slider. While the log before the last two obstacles serves as an effective handicap, so does the Backstream making everything slippery and harder to traverse. By comparison the Ring Slider is pretty much a non-obstacle and doesn’t really affect competitors too much prior to the Salmon Ladder. You obviously can’t have the Backstream first/do a Salmon Ladder with wet hands, so I’d keep the log before the SL and Backstream before the final two obstacles. Best handicaps in their respective positions. The Ring Slider after the Spider Drop would worsen the lack of failability that’s plagued the back half of the current Stage 2 for years, so I definitely wouldn’t take that either.

[brz0ny]

As someone who considers Backstream worst Sasuke obstacle of all time, I would say best idea would be to keep Rolling Log as opening obstacle, and bring Balance Tank back.

[dakohosu]

Sept 6, 2022 10:01:50 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

As someone who considers Backstream worst Sasuke obstacle of all time, I would say best idea would be to keep Rolling Log as opening obstacle, and bring Balance Tank back.

What would the time limit of such a setup be? I would love the Balance Tank to come back but I think H&S might disagree….

[azn]

It's an interesting placement but I think it's better to set it up with something like the metal spin or something that is guranteed to be a lot more failable than the Reverse Conveyer and Wall Lift.

Don't get me wrong, that still sounds incredibly difficult, doing the reverse conveyer and then the wall lift whilst being freshly dizzy (I have motion sickness so for me, doing anything after the Rolling log would be hell on earth) but if competitors irl adapted to the Log to Ladder combo so quickly, I'm sure they would adapt just as quickly should the Log be placed where the Backstream is

[ahzoo]

While your initial suggestion is an interesting idea, I feel as if both it, and the Ring Slider suggestions are trying too hard to fix a problem that isn't really there.

As overplayed as the Backstream is [and when even I, perhaps the girl in this forum who is the least negatively predisposed to it says that, then maybe it's time to maybe add a turn to the pool, or even something to fish for as you swim, Inui], it is still the perfect obstacle to keep in the Second Stage, if only for the way that it can target undersized Third Stage specialists in a way that no other obstacle nor possible replacement can, and in a course as horribly one-dimensional as it currently is, it still broadly serves as an effective curveball that's never really fully realised what with the fear that buffing the jets would lead to another 29 situation [even though, really, it was the fact that back then, the buffs were unfairly applied that caused that whole schißenshau, but I digress] and time-limits for Stage 2s being what they are nowadays; as 38 proved, take one of these two out of the equation, and suddenly the aforementioned body-type awkwardness and the water wets debuff makes the Backstream just as lethal as the Rolling Log being in its position would logically be.

This effect, IMO, would only worsen after the initial tournament in which this change happens, for as dakohosu mentioned, running the RC in a dizzy state is only going to be difficult for a certain period of time as competitors adjust slowly but surely, to the veryigo of it all, and given how most competitors can already recreate such a setup almost perfectly at home already, I'd give it two competitions tops before such an adjustment happens, and all of a sudden, the RL is as much a part of an underwhelming Stage 2 as the Backstream is.

Sadly, in moving the Rolling Log to the antepenultimate slot, you take it out of the opener, and in the process unintentionally create a Salmon Ladder nerf that takes away most of the excitement that any Salmon Ladder attempt, and by extension, the first half of the stage has anymore. What are competitors going to do to fail that early now, fall off the Spider Walk?

Assuming the goal of this exercise is to get rid of the Backstream completely, moving its spot to the start of the stage wouldn't work [leaving out entirely the Q of how feasible it would be to do a Salmon Ladder with no grip on the bar for now], but neither would anything else that you could feasibly replace it with; even the hallowed Chain Reaction was only as good as it was for the spectacle of it all, and the fact that a singular wasted second in that era's Stage 2 really would be the difference between a pass and fail, as opposed to merely adding to your margin of victory for the most part.

In truth, Stage 2 is sooner fixed by a buff to the RL and/or Backstream [ideally both] along with a drop to the time-limit [part of me would love to see Stage 2 have a more stringent time limit than the First again], but keeping the course layout as it is; both of the parts that you're getting at aren't broken, but if you were willing to take a second look at the layout of the Spider Walk/Drop, this current version of the Salmon Ladder, speeding up the Reverse Conveyor, or heck, maybe even add the Hourglass Drop in at the obstacle 4 slot, then you would be putting out far bigger fires in a much more effective way; messing with the debuffs only takes you so far if the enemies themselves aren't tricky themselves.

Lastly, as for the Ring Slider idea, I'll simply say this: Double the amount of stoppers that the wire track has while placing the platform at a distance from which you must swing, and all of a sudden, you've gotten yourself the Silk Slider replacement that Stage 1 so badly needs. The obstacle as-is can only serve to take people out if they're joke competitors realistically, so that's where it ought to be.

TLDR: Leave Britney Backstream alone!