Current Generation of All Stars

[vaughan]

Who would you guys consider the current generation of All Stars in Sasuke. Competitors who currently feel the most likely to achieve Kanzenseiha or consistently get to stage 3 at-least. There's the Shin Sedai but they were established such a long time ago now that I feel its worth revising. Here are my suggestions:

Morimoto Yusuke - Goes without saying really.

Tada Tatsuya - After Morimoto, Tada feels like the most likely to achieve Kanzenseiha. He seems committed to the show for the foreseeable future and generally does well on the Cliffhanger. He also has a consistently strong track record on stage 3 which reminds me of Shiratori Bunpei in his prime.

Yamamoto Yoshiyuki - Its early days but the guy is pretty consistent with getting to the stage 3 with ease. He is also pretty young still and could get better.

Satō Jun - He is the most consistent with getting to stage 3 currently and is probably the most fun to watch. It does seem likes he's never going to get past the cliffhanger however.

Hioki Masashi - Though he's probably the least likely to achieve Kanzenseiha, you can't deny he is very consistent with delivering strong performances. He is also seems very passionate and dedicated to the show.

[zoran]

I'd add in Tomohiro as the 6th all star. Two of his most recent wall fails were down to the weather while in 38, it was just poor technique. Remember his stellar Sasuke 35 run, definitely a better all round competitor than Hioki.

[vaughan]

I agree I really like Tomohiro as an athlete still. My only worry is that he's now in his 40s and already quite inconsistent. However, you are right, he has been hard done by in the last couple tournaments.

[brz0ny]

Idk if i would count Hioki as he is over 40 if im correct. Also Ryo could be there. Even though he competes for long time he is only couple of years older than Yusuke, and I think he is still capable of reaching Final Stage.

[vaughan]

I feel Ryo is a bit of a wild card though as he fails various parts of the first and second stage a lot. I think he has also been less effective in stage 3 recently (though I could just be basing that on Sasuke 39).

[katoshiho]

Well
for now
Shin Sedai member:
Urushihara
Matachi
Hioki
Kawaguchi
Morimoto Sedai member:
Morimoto
Sato Jun
Tada
Yamamoto Keitaro
And one from Black Tiger:
Yamamoto Yoshiyuki

Well, like Nogizaka there's under member in SASUKE:
Suzuki sensei
Nagasaki
Kanno
Araki
Goto Yusuke
Matsuda

All stars celebrates in SASUKE:
Saikawa Koji
Kajihara Hayate
Iwamoto Hikaru
Darvish Kenji
Sugeta Rinne
Tsukada Ryoichi
Under members:
Ajima Hideki
Wasabi
Rampage Takachi
Kyan Yutaka

Women competitor All stars:(there's still a lot didn't compete So just a predict)
Oshima Ayano
Izumi Hikari (not compete yet why!)
kato Shiho (not compete yet)
Higashimura Mei
Sato Kaede
Kanemura Miku (not compete yet)
Under member:
Okabe what what
Karen
(those are popular idols but in SASUKE there are under members)
All not compete yet.
Kosaka Nao
Yoda Yuki
Nibu Akari
Kageyama Yuka

[brz0ny]

Jun 3, 2022 20:19:26 GMT -5 vaughan said:

I feel Ryo is a bit of a wild card though as he fails various parts of the first and second stage a lot. I think he has also been less effective in stage 3 recently (though I could just be basing that on Sasuke 39).

I dont think he is less effective, it has just been long time seeing him in stage 3, but he shown everyone just how good he is in 36, and I have no doubts he will beat Swing Edge next time as he was just caught off guard by new obstacle imo. Hopefully he can stop failing same stages over and over again and be more consistent in stage 3.

[dakohosu]

Guys, what about the Morimoto Sedai!!!!!

Jk. Yusuke, Sato, and Tada are in the top tier of competitors easily but the other three less so. Definitely no comparison to the All-Stars which were consistently at the top of the leaderboards bar a few tournaments here and there.

[brz0ny]

Jun 4, 2022 6:13:20 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Guys, what about the Morimoto Sedai!!!!!

Jk. Yusuke, Sato, and Tada are in the top tier of competitors easily but the other three less so. Definitely no comparison to the All-Stars which were consistently at the top of the leaderboards bar a few tournaments here and there.

I think we can all agree Shin Sedai were much worse than All Stars and Morimoto Sedai. Yuuji is worse than Nagano and Yusuke, and you dont even have a strong number 2, Ryo maybe?

[dakohosu]

Jun 4, 2022 6:32:34 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

Jun 4, 2022 6:13:20 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Guys, what about the Morimoto Sedai!!!!!

Jk. Yusuke, Sato, and Tada are in the top tier of competitors easily but the other three less so. Definitely no comparison to the All-Stars which were consistently at the top of the leaderboards bar a few tournaments here and there.

I think we can all agree Shin Sedai were much worse than All Stars and Morimoto Sedai. Yuuji is worse than Nagano and Yusuke, and you dont even have a strong number 2, Ryo maybe?

Hard to say given that Shin Sedai were never an official group, but I don’t necessarily agree with basing the entire group on the performance of the leader.

If you assume that the Shin Sedai were Yuuji, Ryo, Asa, Kanno, and Hashimoto (not counting guys like Tajima as their tenures were way too short; some even classified Jun as part of the group as well but his tenure before his hiatus was also only like 3 tournaments), we’ve had 7 Final Stage attempts between them, and 2 victories.

The Morimoto Sedai have had 5 attempts and 2 victories, but four of them were from Yusuke himself and the fifth was from Tada on a nerfed course and wasn’t even close to Kanzen. Also, 2 of the group have only made Stage 3 once and Ugajin hasn’t even made it there. While Yusuke is definitely a stronger competitor than Yuuji, I feel like the Morimoto Sedai are way too unbalanced to be a better ‘group’ than the Shin Sedai. I will agree that Yusuke and Tada at least are stronger than any of the Shin Sedai due to doing better on harder courses. We also need to assess their longevity to make a better judgment, given that Kanno went from being one of the strongest competitors to failing Stage 1 six consecutive times, and Ryo went through a massive slump as well.

That said, both are stronger in absolute terms than the All-Stars, as pretty much all of them tanked during Shin Sasuke despite not even being that old, especially Shingo. But their legacy and contribution to the show absolutely wipes the floor with any other potential group you could name.

[brz0ny]

Jun 4, 2022 6:40:08 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Jun 4, 2022 6:32:34 GMT -5 brz0ny said:

I think we can all agree Shin Sedai were much worse than All Stars and Morimoto Sedai. Yuuji is worse than Nagano and Yusuke, and you dont even have a strong number 2, Ryo maybe?

Hard to say given that Shin Sedai were never an official group, but I don’t necessarily agree with basing the entire group on the performance of the leader.

If you assume that the Shin Sedai were Yuuji, Ryo, Asa, Kanno, and Hashimoto (not counting guys like Tajima as their tenures were way too short; some even classified Jun as part of the group as well but his tenure before his hiatus was also only like 3 tournaments), we’ve had 7 Final Stage attempts between them, and 2 victories.

The Morimoto Sedai have had 5 attempts and 2 victories, but four of them were from Yusuke himself and the fifth was from Tada on a nerfed course and wasn’t even close to Kanzen. Also, 2 of the group have only made Stage 3 once and Ugajin hasn’t even made it there. While Yusuke is definitely a stronger competitor than Yuuji, I feel like the Morimoto Sedai are way too unbalanced to be a better ‘group’ than the Shin Sedai. I will agree that Yusuke and Tada at least are stronger than any of the Shin Sedai due to doing better on harder courses. We also need to assess their longevity to make a better judgment, given that Kanno went from being one of the strongest competitors to failing Stage 1 six consecutive times, and Ryo went through a massive slump as well.

That said, both are stronger in absolute terms than the All-Stars, as pretty much all of them tanked during Shin Sasuke despite not even being that old, especially Shingo. But their legacy and contribution to the show absolutely wipes the floor with any other potential group you could name.

I didnt say Shin Sedai are worse because the leader is worse, it is just another reason it is.

It is unfair saying All Stars are the worst because of what happened in Shin Sasuke. They werent that old yes but almost all of them were well past their prime, and i wouldnt say Shin Sedai were particularly more impressive than Nagano and Takeda. Also 5/6 All Stars appeared at least once in Final Stage, and the one who didnt holds the record for most stage 3 appearances. All Stars during first 17 competitions apart from Yamada and Akiyama (and you cant put much blame on Akiyama for that) were quite consistent in making stage 3. Shin Sedai were no where near as consistent. Yuuji hasnt made stage 3 between his 2 Kanzens, Ryo was particularly disappointing with his early fails, Asa was very consistent but stage 3 fodder, also a much less impressive version of stage 3 fodder than Takeda, Kanno was very good fair enough but sadly injuries had to be there, and Hashimoto had very short time in Sasuke and only performed in tournaments which were heavily nerfed, which can also be applied to everyone before. All Stars in first 17 competitions and Morimoto Sedai in 28-39 were much better than Shin Sedai in 18-27, that was my point. You probably wanted to compare them head to head, but personally that is always unfair to early competitors, as Sasuke was way easier and thus even if you had someone like Ryo and Tada back then I dont think they would be much better, especially considering how Final Stage is equally as hard in almost all competitions (granted when other stages are easier the Final Stage is also easier as you are less fatigued).

[dakohosu]

I was referring more to raw skill and ability rather than achievements.

Obviously the All-Stars wipe the floor with any of the other two groups if you consider number of Stage 3 and 4 attempts. Pretty sure they’ve got 47 Stage 3 attempts and 9 Stage 4 attempts between them, which I’m certain is a record that’ll never be broken by any record.

But I’d argue that a lot of their success can be attributed to the much easier courses back then. Shingo, Akiyama, and Yamada especially. Akiyama tanked even after the first era of the show, while Shingo couldn’t get past Shin Sasuke’s Stage 1 to save his life. Both were in their late 20s-early 30s when they started their declines. Yamada I think even in his prime would have no shot at Shin-Sasuke’s Stage 1 (bar maybe 18) as he was never the fastest or most agile competitor, and struggled on the easier variant of the wall even in his early 30s. Past their prime or not, I think their respective ‘walls’ of ability were simply much lower than a lot of the newer competitors we’ve seen these days. Like they would have absolutely zero shot at the Ultimate Cliffhanger or Crazy Cliffhanger, EVEN if they had practiced for it and if they were at the top of their respective games.

The other three are a different story, as they were seemingly way more adaptable to difficulty spikes. Bunpei I think would’ve been pretty decent if he was in his prime due to his impeccable technique and tireless practicing on replicas. Nagano and Takeda it depends given that neither of them extensively trained on replicas, which is pretty much a death sentence in today’s era.

[subtleagent]

I think people are a wee too hard on Yuuji because his kanzens were a result of respective unchanged and easier courses. Let's not forget that 99 other competitors still failed said courses so it's not like they were necessarily easy. Personally I think 27's First Stage would've been an easy fix had they kept 26's Jumping Spider and cut the time by about 15 - 20 seconds, but as I said before I'm willing to give 27 a little slack because it came at a time where the show was seemingly over.

Back to Yuuji though, he did make it to Stage 3 and beat the Cliffhanger in his 40s as well as the Vertical Limit. Him, Ryo and kinda Kanno are the only ones left who religiously train for the show. And even then Ryo is inconsistent while Kanno is all but finished. But I would argue they all had harder courses to deal with. Hioki and Kawaguchi I'm not really sure if I consider Shin Sedai, though they do seem to be acknowledged as such because TBS seems to flip flop with them as they were never really an established group bar Yuuji, Kanno, and Hashimoto in Shin-SASUKE and the four who were picked in 28. Of course there was Nagasaki who was called one in his teen years, but in his case he had 3/4 Stage 3 runs by that point and a Final, so I think it's reasonable to pick him as one though he has declined badly in recent years.

In the case of the Morimoto Sedai I controversially feel they (including Morimoto himself) all have gotten lucky as they haven't had many course changes to deal with and as evident with Morimoto's rainy wall fails, and Keitaro's Sidewinder fail as well as Sato abusing the time limit in 34 and still clearing with almost 30 seconds, they're easily susceptible to getting thrown off by course changes or course conditions. Though beating 38's Stage 2 kind of contradicts this a bit.

[m4tt3r0x]

If I had to make 6 All Stars out of what we have now from most to least deserving imo:

Morimoto Yusuke
Tada Tatsuya
Sato Jun
Yoshiyuki Yamamoto
Matachi Ryo
Yamamoto Keitaro

Sorry Araki. You were my next pick.

[brz0ny]

Jun 4, 2022 7:40:34 GMT -5 dakohosu said:

Like they would have absolutely zero shot at the Ultimate Cliffhanger or Crazy Cliffhanger, EVEN if they had practiced for it and if they were at the top of their respective games.

You can say the same thing for a lot od Shin and Morimoto Sedai members. Some people just can never beat CH even if their life depended on it, while you have people like Yusuke and Ryo who make it look like its easy.

[brz0ny]

Another thing, I feel like either Morimoto Sedai will last for long time, or Morimoto will be a leader of next generation as well. If he continues the way he is going now there is no doubt he will become undisputed GOAT, which actually might ruin this competition. I might make a post about how but I think most people understand how that can happen. It also might ruin upcoming stars chances of making big achievements.

[brz0ny]

Jun 4, 2022 8:09:23 GMT -5 subtleagent said:

I think people are a wee too hard on Yuuji because his kanzens were a result of respective unchanged and easier courses. Let's not forget that 99 other competitors still failed said courses so it's not like they were necessarily easy. Personally I think 27's First Stage would've been an easy fix had they kept 26's Jumping Spider and cut the time by about 15 - 20 seconds, but as I said before I'm willing to give 27 a little slack because it came at a time where the show was seemingly over.

Back to Yuuji though, he did make it to Stage 3 and beat the Cliffhanger in his 40s as well as the Vertical Limit. Him, Ryo and kinda Kanno are the only ones left who religiously train for the show. And even then Ryo is inconsistent while Kanno is all but finished. But I would argue they all had harder courses to deal with. Hioki and Kawaguchi I'm not really sure if I consider Shin Sedai, though they do seem to be acknowledged as such because TBS seems to flip flop with them as they were never really an established group bar Yuuji, Kanno, and Hashimoto in Shin-SASUKE and the four who were picked in 28. Of course there was Nagasaki who was called one in his teen years, but in his case he had 3/4 Stage 3 runs by that point and a Final, so I think it's reasonable to pick him as one though he has declined badly in recent years.

In the case of the Morimoto Sedai I controversially feel they (including Morimoto himself) all have gotten lucky as they haven't had many course changes to deal with and as evident with Morimoto's rainy wall fails, and Keitaro's Sidewinder fail as well as Sato abusing the time limit in 34 and still clearing with almost 30 seconds, they're easily susceptible to getting thrown off by course changes or course conditions. Though beating 38's Stage 2 kind of contradicts this a bit.

Saying Yuuji was disappointing in 25 and 26 is an understatement. Okuyama, Hashimoto, Orosco and Lee all did much better than he did. And obviously after his win in 27 he struggled a lot. Idk he is a weird case, incredibly inconsistent, but possibly with greatest longevity out of all competitors so far.

[dakohosu]

^You’re basically just cherry picking the competitors who cleared Stage 1, of which there really weren’t a whole lot in 26, in fact only 2 Japanese competitors. Yuuji would’ve easily gone the farthest in 25 had he not had his DSL issue, which let’s be honest was a complete fluke of bad luck. His performance in 26 was disappointing, but it was clearly driven by the fact that he felt a huge amount of pressure wearing #100. Arsenette made a huge post years ago on how Yuuji never felt as though he could live up to Nagano which I think is why him wearing #100 was such a big deal for him and clouded his judgment. Let’s also not forget that 26 was announced 2 weeks in advance and Stage 1 was a huge renewal.

The only reason why the Morimoto Sedai will last a long time is because they’re the youngest guys competing. My fundamental issue is that the MS seems to be a group almost against the competitors’ will. None of them ever wanted to form a group, they were just clustered together because of their performances in 36, and since then it’s been super inconsistent.

In 37 the group seemed to have magically disappeared, in 38 the announcer started using the term again, while there’s no confirmation as to whether Ugajin is actually a part of the group or not. It’s also not like the All-Stars who kind of stuck together, everyone trains with everyone these days…. It’s like the only basis on which they formed the group was on age alone, because Hioki and Suzuki hang out with the rest of the group as much as Tada and Jun do. Also, pretty much every member of the Shin Sedai or All-Stars have had near-Kanzen runs and have hence displayed that they’re threats to winning it all, the only exceptions being Asa and Takeda (tho in the latter’s case everyone believed him reaching the Final would be a free pass to Kanzen). Only Yusuke and Tada have achieved this imo, while the other four have all had decent runs but nothing that stands out from the rest of the crowd, and hence warrants them being part of the ‘best’ group in the way that the All-Stars were.

The Black Tigers are a different story, given that every member actually applies to be a member of Yamada’s protégés, though with only one of them being a genuine threat to Kanzen (Yoshiyuki) and Yamada only being allowed 2-3 slots, it’s never going to be a candidate for an All-Stars equivalent.

[vaughan]

Jun 4, 2022 8:45:48 GMT -5 m4tt3r0x said:

If I had to make 6 All Stars out of what we have now from most to least deserving imo:

Morimoto Yusuke
Tada Tatsuya
Sato Jun
Yoshiyuki Yamamoto
Matachi Ryo
Yamamoto Keitaro

Sorry Araki. You were my next pick.

Interesting list. I'm not sure on Keitaro personally. He's decent but I don't think he has done enough to earn an All Star status yet. 

I another potentials All Star I just thought of is Isa Yoshinori. He's been consistent with getting to stage 3 so far and he is pretty young still.

[dakohosu]

Jun 4, 2022 10:06:46 GMT -5 vaughan said:

Jun 4, 2022 8:45:48 GMT -5 m4tt3r0x said:

If I had to make 6 All Stars out of what we have now from most to least deserving imo:

Morimoto Yusuke
Tada Tatsuya
Sato Jun
Yoshiyuki Yamamoto
Matachi Ryo
Yamamoto Keitaro

Sorry Araki. You were my next pick.

Interesting list. I'm not sure on Keitaro personally. He's decent but I don't think he has done enough to earn an All Star status yet. 

I another potentials All Star I just thought of is Isa Yoshinori. He's been consistent with getting to stage 3 so far and he is pretty young still.

Keitaro has at least shown that he’s capable of clearing Stage 3 easily in practice, if not in competition just yet. Isa basically has zero shot at reaching the Final Stage imo.