Numbers and Pressure Associated with them

[dakohosu]

I'm making this post because (I'm bored, but more importantly) we all know that there's been a lot of discussion surrounding the connotations and potential repercussions of competitors getting assigned certain numbers. For example, how Tada allegedly prefers to run earlier due to not wanting the supposed 'pressure' of being given a higher number as this potentially implies more hype surrounding him.

I have to say this first and foremost; I just don't get it. Unless you're literally wearing #100 or maybe #99, I don't understand how wearing a higher number could cause a competitor to feel more pressured than if they were running earlier. Even in the cases of the last few runs, the pressure is surely more a function of the expectation surrounding a given competitor based on their past performances that earned them that number, rather than the number themselves. Hell, Yusuke could be given #70 but he'd still be the most hyped competitor given that he's effectively synonymous with the show based on him being the most recent (double) champion. Hioki is still massively hyped by the community despite getting lower numbers; if anything, him being placed in a kind of no man's land surrounded by mostly irrelevant joke competitors means that there would be far more attention drawn to him than if he were positioned in the middle of a bunch of equally successful and hyped runs. Recent competitions have also had a bunch of randos in the 90s, as well as guys like Yamada, Darvish, and Kawaguchi who don't deserve such high numbers if they were assigned based on performance alone, which they're clearly not. Hence with a much bigger blur between past performance and number assignment, this further reduces any potential pressure brought about by wearing e.g. #95, knowing that some random rookie athlete may get the number in the next competition. The only genuine pressure I could think of is that running later means that you have to wait longer for your run, which can be daunting especially seeing your comrades before you fail really early.

I also think there's a huge disadvantage to running earlier in the field as well. You run the risk of being the 'guinea pig' for any new obstacles - Hioki for example almost failed the Drum Hopper in 30, struggled on the Ring Slider in 33 resulting in him timing out, and was the only competitor to fail the Planet Bridge in 35, largely due to the fact that he was the first to attempt all of those obstacles. He also had no reference on how to clear the Dragon Glider as everyone else before him had failed, but he obvs managed to pull that one off I'd say running later in the field is probably more advantageous for that reason, given that there's a huge amount of value in seeing competitors before you attempt the obstacle to ascertain the techniques that do and don't work - e.g. after Bunpei used his technique on the Devil Balanco, everyone else followed suit and cleared the obstacle no problem.

Honestly if it were up to me and I got to choose any number I wanted for my first ever Sasuke attempt, I'd choose somewhere in the 70s-80s. I wouldn't want to have to be the first to attempt a new obstacle (especially not something like the Swing Edge which is highly technical) but I also wouldn't want to have to wait the entirety of the day to run as I'd just get hella nervous, but that's just me lol.

[zoran]

I think in regards to obstacle attempts, contestants get to watch testers give a first time run on each obstacle but I'm not sure.

[dakohosu]

Jan 23, 2022 14:43:03 GMT -5 zoran said:

I think in regards to obstacle attempts, contestants get to watch testers give a first time run on each obstacle but I'm not sure.

Good point, but still, the more reference points you have, the better. You can also get one-on-one advice from competitors who run the course before you on how to tackle the obstacle going into it completely blind.

[subtleagent]

Sometimes watching fail after fail can get in people's heads. But that can happen anywhere. I just figure for later numbers it can hit harder due to the long waits. Plus numbers were never based solely off track record anyway, they were based off prolific competitors. In Kawaguchi's case I figure he's only kept high because Inui can market him and there isn't anyone else who's reached the final besides Tada who doesn't like high numbers. I don't really agree with that reasoning given it's been 8 years since he's made the final and he's failed the wall three times in a row. But then again given Inui doesn't really have a good track record when it comes to changing things up I also figure numbers are another casualty to this.

[dakohosu]

Jan 24, 2022 12:15:57 GMT -5 subtleagent said:

Sometimes watching fail after fail can get in people's heads. But that can happen anywhere. I just figure for later numbers it can hit harder due to the long waits. Plus numbers were never based solely off track record anyway, they were based off prolific competitors. In Kawaguchi's case I figure he's only kept high because Inui can market him and there isn't anyone else who's reached the final besides Tada who doesn't like high numbers. I don't really agree with that reasoning given it's been 8 years since he's made the final and he's failed the wall three times in a row. But then again given Inui doesn't really have a good track record when it comes to changing things up I also figure numbers are another casualty to this.

Yeah I don't really know; running later means you get much more reference point on the kinds of techniques that do and don't work with certain obstacles; like Lee En-Chih chose a really low number for Sasuke 18 and failed the Jumping Spider because he had no idea on the best approach for it given that no one had even reached it before him. Personally I'd only get really nervous right before my run, which would be the case wherever I was placed in the running order. Also, you could argue that seeing loads of clears might have an equivalent effect in that it makes one feel even worse about failing Stage 1, whereas if I'd competed in Sasuke 19 I wouldn't feel too bad about myself knowing that it was mostly the course, not just my incompetence lol. I guess it really depends on the person. 

I guess my point was that most of the pressure doesn't actually come from the number itself, rather the expectation on that competitor due to their past track record that earned them that number. If you reached the Final Stage in the last tournament, all eyes would be on you no matter where you were placed in the running field. Not that I've got a degree in psychology or anything, but I'd wager that fails like Ryo in 31 was due to the fact that everyone expected him to Kanzen, and him wearing #100 wasn't the sole reason, but it enhanced how he perceived his positioning among the field as the 'one everyone expects to win'; this is the main reason I made an exception for #100, because that number is literally ONLY reserved for former champions and given that it's the last run literally all eyes are on you. Anything else in the #90s I just feel wouldn't really add any additional pressure beyond what the competitor is already feeling in terms of the expectations placed on them, especially as by that point the vast majority of viewers, many of whom don't actually know most of the prolific competitors, are just waiting for either Darvish and/or Morimoto. 

But yeah the numbers being much more sporadic in recent competitions further serves to support my lack of understanding of how numbers are correlated with pressure. Higher numbers are much more frequently thrown around these days which massively reduces the supposed 'importance' of wearing a number like #95 which was worn by someone so insignificant to the show in Sasuke 39 that they were all cut. If #95 had been worn by an All-Star or former Finalist for the past several tournaments then I'd understand, but recently that seems not to be the case.

On a side note, I was initially pretty pissed off about the running order for 39 but I actually liked how it panned out. Having more strong competitors dispersed throughout the field makes the first half of Stage 1 far less painful to watch having to go through almost an hour of joke competitors before actually getting interesting. It was after that when I realised I was mainly annoyed because of how Kawaguchi got #98; everyone loves to hate on Darvish but Tomo gets the exact same treatment, and he's not even a celebrity.

[subtleagent]

I guess unlike Yamada, Tomo isn't really an immersion breaker because he's still athletically capable. That said, it does give off an annoying bout of favoritism that becomes frustrating when said favorite underperforms. And in Tomo's case I know he's given into the pressure of running late in the past (31 and 36 are key examples).

Though on the topic of Kenji Fujimitsu (#95) being cut in 39, I figured since he had a generic Rolling Hill fail they didn't feel there was much reason to show that in broadcast. They already spent enough time on Yamada and Darvish with their early fails as it was, did we really need another one? I also feel like the amount of celebrities competing has become so high that some have to be digested, lest the broadcast be stretched beyond it's runtime (and Stage 1 was 3 hours even with some heavy digests as it was). I always did feel Inui could balance it out more as I feel he really does cut corners with the later half of Stage 1 since he spends so much time on the early half, but again it all depends on who's more screenworthy. Of course you have to also factor in the long-term competitors who helped bring the show up, but that goes without saying. Even Shingo didn't get an interview (though I speculate that might've been because they didn't want to show a replay due to being wrong about him not hitting the water on the Silk Slider) when he normally at the very least gets one of those.

[m4tt3r0x]

Very interesting point. Usually to get an undeserved number in the mid to high 90s you have to be a celebrity or athlete. I don't think they feel any particular pressure from their number as it's obvious they're just being treated to it because of their status. No one was feeling let down when Mr. Handball, Paul Anthony Terek, or Sato Hiromichi didn't showcase near perfect Sasuke expertise on at least one occasion each where they had numbers in the very high 90s.

When it comes to the Sasuke-born names like Asa Kazuma or Hitoshi Kanno for example, their high numbers were almost purely based on their previous track records on the show itself. Now the question becomes at what point, if any, does a number become high enough that it demands a certain burden placed on the possessor?

Obviously 99 and 100 are definitely gonna come with expectation for anyone, even Yusuke, if you're not a talent/celeb/athlete. I think the pressure is only high if the number itself doesn't match the confidence of the possessor. If modern day Shunsuke Nagasaki was given 98 he'd surely feel out of place as he hasn't been to Stage 2 since 35 and Stage 3 since 33. I think him being slotted in the 70s actually lessens the burden of expectation for him.

When Yuuji was in his slumps and being given 100 or numbers high in the 90s you could tell that his placement just made things worse. Now that he's out of his rut he doesn't seem phased by being given 99 in the slightest. If you're a competitor with an amazingly consistent track record like young Takeda, you shouldn't feel that bad falling on the first stage with #98 every once in a while.

Someone like Tada is curious though. He's made Stage 3+ three tournaments in a row. He is one of the best in the field. Does being put at say 91 versus 98 lessen the pressure for him? I'd actually argue it does. It's basically the show subtly telling the viewer that this guy isn't the whole show, he's not like 97-100. So Tada doesn't have to feel responsible for dampening the honor of such a high number if he flubs. That's how I see it.

Is Tada still gonna feel like he failed someone if he doesn't do well because of his record regardless of number like tns said? As far as that has to do with the show itself I think that would just depend on how much spotlight that particular competitor is given to begin with--and well, Tada is literally fastforwarded even when he's last man standing LOL. I don't think someone like him has to worry about that. Tomo right now is the exact opposite of that though, and I imagine that he feels that pressure to succeed, even if he was given a lower number, as he's always shown in full with fluff pieces. I think to even a lesser extent someone like Matsuda who is always shown now is expected to do well on Stage 1, maybe not clear, because of the attention and role he has to do with the show nowadays.

So ironically, being given a number like 40 or 60 consistently like Matsuda and Hioki get along with their guaranteed spotlight comes with its own pressure. I still think it's not as bad as someone like Tomo who has the spotlight AND the number 98/99 in his back pocket.

[dakohosu]

Jan 28, 2022 8:58:02 GMT -5 m4tt3r0x said:

Very interesting point. Usually to get an undeserved number in the mid to high 90s you have to be a celebrity or athlete. I don't think they feel any particular pressure from their number as it's obvious they're just being treated to it because of their status. No one was feeling let down when Mr. Handball, Paul Anthony Terek, or Sato Hiromichi didn't showcase near perfect Sasuke expertise on at least one occasion each where they had numbers in the very high 90s.

When it comes to the Sasuke-born names like Asa Kazuma or Hitoshi Kanno for example, their high numbers were almost purely based on their previous track records on the show itself. Now the question becomes at what point, if any, does a number become high enough that it demands a certain burden placed on the possessor?

Obviously 99 and 100 are definitely gonna come with expectation for anyone, even Yusuke, if you're not a talent/celeb/athlete. I think the pressure is only high if the number itself doesn't match the confidence of the possessor. If modern day Shunsuke Nagasaki was given 98 he'd surely feel out of place as he hasn't been to Stage 2 since 35 and Stage 3 since 33. I think him being slotted in the 70s actually lessens the burden of expectation for him.

When Yuuji was in his slumps and being given 100 or numbers high in the 90s you could tell that his placement just made things worse. Now that he's out of his rut he doesn't seem phased by being given 99 in the slightest. If you're a competitor with an amazingly consistent track record like young Takeda, you shouldn't feel that bad falling on the first stage with #98 every once in a while.

Someone like Tada is curious though. He's made Stage 3+ three tournaments in a row. He is one of the best in the field. Does being put at say 91 versus 98 lessen the pressure for him? I'd actually argue it does. It's basically the show subtly telling the viewer that this guy isn't the whole show, he's not like 97-100. So Tada doesn't have to feel responsible for dampening the honor of such a high number if he flubs. That's how I see it.

Is Tada still gonna feel like he failed someone if he doesn't do well because of his record regardless of number like tns said? As far as that has to do with the show itself I think that would just depend on how much spotlight that particular competitor is given to begin with--and well, Tada is literally fastforwarded even when he's last man standing LOL. I don't think someone like him has to worry about that. Tomo right now is the exact opposite of that though, and I imagine that he feels that pressure to succeed, even if he was given a lower number, as he's always shown in full with fluff pieces. I think to even a lesser extent someone like Matsuda who is always shown now is expected to do well on Stage 1, maybe not clear, because of the attention and role he has to do with the show nowadays.

So ironically, being given a number like 40 or 60 consistently like Matsuda and Hioki get along with their guaranteed spotlight comes with its own pressure. I still think it's not as bad as someone like Tomo who has the spotlight AND the number 98/99 in his back pocket.

You make a good point in that it might depend on the pretense upon which they're awarded such a number. I suppose being awarded a high number indicates that the producers have recognized the competitor's past successes which might obviously add more pressure to that competitor's run. Also I can imagine running right before someone like Yuuji or Yusuke must be daunting because it sort of furthers the idea of how much is expected from you if you're placed right next to a two-time champion.

That said, I still think numbers are almost never the sole factor behind pressure, rather they can exacerbate the pressure that a competitor already feels from their past performances. Matsuda, for example, is a competitor that I feel is massively plagued by pressure; the guy's earned a lot of hype from his backyard course that almost every competitor uses to practice on. That alone is enough to warrant a huge amount of expectation on him to clear the obstacles he practices religiously which I think gets in his head as he can clear them easily in practice but constantly fumbles in competition. The hype and expectation are still glaringly in his face even though he gets numbers in the 30s. I'm not sure how much this would be affected by him running later in the field, given that this is hypothetically an indicator of expectation on the competitor that he already feels from his role in the Sasuke community as it stands. 

This is assuming he gets a number in the #80s-90s and not like #99 or whatever. The way I see it is that the correlation between number and pressure (for non-celebrity competitors) is INCREDIBLY exponential, in that it's almost non-existent up to maybe the mid-90s (Tada who hates high numbers still managing to perform wearing #95 and #91 in his last two tournaments sort of confirms this) and then in the last 3-4 positions massively increases. The difference between #98 and #99 is a fair jump, while the difference between #99 and #100 is massive. Yuuji's always performed decently wearing #99 but not #100; I imagine the reason for this is that Nagano who was the GOAT had worn #100 for like the past 7-8 years and then suddenly Yuuji gets it which obviously got in his head about trying to replicate Nagano's impact, which he felt he never could do (I read this in a past thread by Arsenette where he went to the USA; everyone just wanted Nagano's autograph and not his even though this was only a year after Sasuke 24). Mind you, the most scared he ever looked and his worst performance was in Sasuke 33 where he wore #89, which shows that even with or without a high number, other forms of pressure can be far more effective in sabotaging one's run, in his case he was anxious to rectify his past Stage 1 failure streak. Fundamentally I feel as though if you're prone to pressure you're going to suffer from it no matter what, and if you've performed well enough to wear a number in the high 90s, then you're clearly good enough at suppressing that anxiety and adopting a tunnel-vision like relationship with the course such that being given a high number in the next competition is unlikely to throw you off guard. #100 obvs being the only exception because of what that number signifies; so many different competitors have worn #96, #97, #98, #99; but #100's basically only been worn by champions and the creme de la creme, as well as being the final runner of the day means that literally all eyes are on you. Besides, with Inui's weird editing decisions, even if you wear #97-98, there's a good chance your run will still be digested, but never #100.

Also, r/e Tomo, at this point I just feel as though he actually likes getting high numbers. He's good enough friends with Inui such that if he felt any pressure from those numbers then he could easily just ask to be given a lower one, similar to how Yuuji asked not to be given #100 and how Tada probably asked not to be given #99 etc. The only reason I can think of is that it allows for more promotion of Per-Adra, that he wants sufficient time to psych himself up, or that he wants to see as many runs and techniques as possible before he begins. Besides, until recently he was performing really consistently wearing #97 at the very lowest after his Final Stage run, so clearly the pros outweigh any possible cons of running that high.

[subtleagent]

In Hiromichi's case he won Family VIKING so I feel that might have contributed to his higher number placement. Along with being a celebrity and having some kind of in with TBS of course.

[dakohosu]

Jan 29, 2022 18:23:08 GMT -5 subtleagent said:

In Hiromichi's case he won Family VIKING so I feel that might have contributed to his higher number placement. Along with being a celebrity and having some kind of in with TBS of course.

Yeah, high numbers are only given to celebrities with some kind of athletic prowess and particularly those who’ve done well in other TBS-related sports programs. Like Viking, Pro Sportsman, and Kinniku Banzuke back in the older days. I mean Akiyama got given #100 on his debut for his performance on Quick Muscle alone so it’s not just celebrities, but obvs being a famous face is a facilitating factor for running later in the field for the ratings. I know lots of people complain about celebrities getting ‘unfairly’ high numbers; but if they’ve achieved enough in said spin-off shows which they usually have then I’d say they deserve it. Obviously if that Hikakin guy or Boruneesan got given a really high number then it would be a bit more questionable, especially as a joke competitor running in the most serious part of Stage 1 just doesn’t really fit.

Tbh I actually would be more nervous as a rookie celebrity who gets like #95 in his/her first ever tournament. At least with competitors who earn those numbers upon their own merit they’ve obviously competed several times before and are used to the format and obstacles, whereas Sasuke is daunting because it’s way harder than any of the other game shows aired on TBS. So just imagine being expected to do really well at something that you haven’t trained a whole lot for and that you’ve never attempted.....