Most consistent competitor?

[tns8597]

Who do you think was the most consistent competitor we've ever seen on Sasuke?

Controversially, I'm not going to go with what I feel is the most obvious answer: yes, Takeda has made Stage 3 more times than any other competitor, but I'd say his track record has been slightly let down by the fact that his performances ON Stage 3 were fairly inconsistent. He'd constantly have a good run one tournament, then regress the next tournament by failing the Cliffhanger or Body Prop etc. Sasuke 11, 13, 14, 16, and 24 in particular come to mind. Then there's the obvious elephant in the room which is the fact that he's never managed to clear the stage as well as his post-hiatus performances. My point is that he was consistent in reaching Stage 3 for only the first half of his career, and even then he was inconsistent within Stage 3.

In terms of who I think earns the title, I'd have to either go with Jun or Okuyama; Jun because save for 33 (which was due to an obstacle glitch) he's at least matched or improved over his performances each time round and seems to have an incredible degree of resilience to new or modified obstacles. Okuyama because despite having only six consecutive Stage 3 appearances vs. the above two's seven, he was the only one of the three to make the Final Stage, and never failed an obstacle that he'd cleared before save for the Soritatsu Kabe that was early on in his career. He was also incredibly resilient to course changes as well; him being the only Japanese competitor to make Stage 3 and at age 40 no less was a testament to this. He would've also made Stage 3 a seventh consecutive time had he either actually been invited to Sasuke 28, or not have to take on what was effectively a broken Stage 2 in Sasuke 29.

Let me know your thoughts.

[Ninja Relaxer]

Funny you should ask. I'm in the middle of watching Sasuke 12, where Daisuke Nakata is dubbed "Mr. Perfect" for reaching the 3rd stage four times in a row. So he was a contender for the title at least for a while there.

I agree about Jun Sato. Also, Hioki and Asa Kazuma were very consistent for a while there. You could always count on them to reach the Cliffhanger. Kongu as well -- his only real slip-ups were due to obstacle malfunctions.

As for Okuyama -- he is one of those competitors I can never quite wrap my mind around. I'll tell you a little story. The second time I watched Sasuke straight-through, I had no memory of Okuyama. The first time he showed up and did really well, I thought, "Wow, this guy is really good considering I don't remember him at all." Then he kept getting to the Third Stage, time after time, and I couldn't believe it... How could he be that good if I had forgotten about him? I remembered so many other competitors, but somehow Okuyama had completely slipped from my mind.

It's the Mandela Effect, I guess. I feel like I watched Sasuke in some parallel dimension where Okuyama doesn't exist, then got transported to this dimension where he does. To this day, I still have a hard time assessing Okuyama's capabilities and his impact on the show.

[yamfriend]

As with many questions like this, answers are going to depend greatly upon how you define "consistent". I initially thought of it as someone clearing the First Stage frequently (not sure why), while others could interpret it as getting to a certain obstacle/stage frequently enough. If you really wanted to, you could say Tatsukawa ("Superman") and Torisawa are as consistent as Nagano and Morimoto respectively, in regards to wearing a certain number so many times in a row. My main point is that these interpretations are very subjective, and that answers are going to vary a lot without a clear outline of what is meant by being consistent.

[subtleagent]

If by consistent you mean constantly delivers dependable results based on whether they have a chance at Kanzenseiha. In that case I'd go with Morimoto. He's has consistently shown he's capable of adapting to newer obstacles and his results definitely show from that adaptability. He'd have tied Jun Sato for most Stage 1 clears had it not been for the wet Kabe in 37 and his total victory in 38 only shows he's still got potential in the years to come.

This is how Nagano was in his heyday (as in pre-SASUKE 23). Most of the obstacles he failed were either new or modified and even then he didn't seem to ever really have many problems adapting to the changes of the obstacle. My only thing keeping me from putting Nagano in the consistent category completely is he seemed to be thrown off be said changes while Morimoto rarely ever got tripped up by obstacle changes and still made the final in 4 of the last 8 tournaments. His only fails outside of the Final Stage being due to a malfunction in 33, a bulls**t combo in 34, and a wet Warped Wall in 37. All faults of the course than faults of his mental of physical performance. Meanwhile Nagano usually fails said modifications (Jump Hang in 10, Metal Spin in 15, Circle Slider in 25, Jumping Spider in 26, Tackle + Wall in 31). And he had a regressive Final Stage attempt in SASUKE 13 showing even he was not immune to digression in his prime. Most of his fails were definitely mental more than physical (except SASUKE 21 and possibly SASUKE 16), but he still clearly had a shot at Kanzenseiha until SASUKE Rising came around and he hit decline (26 I sort of forgive because the Japanese competitors barely had any time to prepare as the tourney was only 2 weeks away when it was announced).

An opposite example would be Shingo. He could be marketed as consistent for making it to Stage 3 a lot between SASUKE 2 and 17, but none of his Stage 3 attempts after SASUKE 11 gave me any confidence that he'd ever kanzen (especially 15 onward). Shingo's decline wasn't as sudden or hardcore as say Yamada or Akiyama, his was more of a slow burn (as in he still delivered better than average performances in the scope of the entire competitive field even if they weren't as good as his early runs while Yamada and Akiyama were to the point where they couldn't even beat the First Stage), but it happened when he was only in his late 20s, whereas Yamada was in his late 30s, while even Akiyama was still 30/31 when it started. In 7 he was robbed by a bad shoulder, but I still had faith it was just a fluke and he'd still have a chance to kanzen, but when I saw him gas out earlier and earlier after 11 it was clear he was out of the running, further solidified by the fact that he hasn't even touched Stage 3 in what will now be 12 years. And his last Stage 3 attempt ended before it even began.

[tns8597]

I personally think Nakata's consistency was a tad overrated; he was super consistent from Sasuke 8-11 but after that he performances sort of flipped and flopped (obvs partially down to the repercussions of his unfortunate accident). I suppose he earned that title because no one else during that period matched his resilience, mainly because the All-Stars all (bar Yamada) failed Stage 1 in Sasuke 10, but having three consecutive Stage 3 performances isn't exactly uncommon.

And yeah I'm fully aware that the definition of 'consistent' results-wise is quite arbitrary and I purposely left this definition open-ended for the purpose of discussion. For example, most people would say that Takeda simply reaching Stage 3 on more occasions than anyone else positions him as the most consistent competitor, which is fair enough, but I personally value progression and resilience to the same, modified, or new obstacles super highly when it comes to my definition of 'consistency'. Takeda always had trouble in maintaining his performances especially with obstacle modifications, such as failing the Lamp Grasper in Sasuke 9, and every new Salmon Ladder variant, as well as consistently failing obstacles he'd passed before. As subtleagent quoted, Shingo's also a very polarising example when it comes to consistency; many would regard his pre-Nagano Kanzen performances as highly consistent, but I would fundamentally disagree because from Sasuke 2-10 where he had a shot at Total Victory, he failed Stage 1 literally every other tournament, then from Sasuke 11-17 he had a much better run when it came to reaching Stage 3 but his performances on Stage 3 just declined and declined.

For me, resilience to course changes is probably the most important factor when it comes to consistency. It shows that the competitor is able to maintain their high level of performance despite being faced with foreign obstacles, massive reductions in time limit, or recovering from injuries. Examples would be Hioki in 36 giving his best run yet despite his foot injury, Sato in 38, Okuyama in 26 etc. Progression on obstacles is also important; the ability to constantly utilise months of training in between tournaments to build on their past performances, no matter 'how they feel on the day'. Sato's never done worse than his past performances except for 33 due to a broken obstacle which I think is a huge testament to his consistency.

As I mentioned though, I purposely didn't define 'consistency' because when it comes to Sasuke results it's highly up for interpretation and hence I wanted to hear how others on the forum define the term.

[Kane-Not-Kosugi]

It's 100% Jun Sato. There's absolutely no other debate. The man's literally got a 10 clear streak on Stage 1 AND failed the same Stage 3 obstacle 6 out of the last 7 tournaments. By definition of consistency, this guy takes the cake.

[tns8597]

Apr 22, 2021 4:41:01 GMT -5 Kane-Not-Kosugi said:

It's 100% Jun Sato. There's absolutely no other debate. The man's literally got a 10 clear streak on Stage 1 AND failed the same Stage 3 obstacle 6 out of the last 7 tournaments. By definition of consistency, this guy takes the cake.

I think he will clear the Cliffhanger eventually though. He's only 29 and he's come pretty damn close in the last two tournaments. In 37 he had a good hold on the last ledge but just about slipped off (compared to in 36 where he basically just touched the ledge and didn't get enough momentum), and in 38 I think he could've actually cleared the obstacle had it not been for the Dimension causing the ledges to move out of sync. Compare this to his first couple of attempts and he couldn't even reach the first ledge with both hands; slow and steady wins the race.

[zoran]

Apr 22, 2021 4:37:45 GMT -5 tns8597 said:

I personally think Nakata's consistency was a tad overrated; he was super consistent from Sasuke 8-11 but after that he performances sort of flipped and flopped (obvs partially down to the repercussions of his unfortunate accident). I suppose he earned that title because no one else during that period matched his resilience, mainly because the All-Stars all (bar Yamada) failed Stage 1 in Sasuke 10, but having three consecutive Stage 3 performances isn't exactly uncommon.

And yeah I'm fully aware that the definition of 'consistent' results-wise is quite arbitrary and I purposely left this definition open-ended for the purpose of discussion. For example, most people would say that Takeda simply reaching Stage 3 on more occasions than anyone else positions him as the most consistent competitor, which is fair enough, but I personally value progression and resilience to the same, modified, or new obstacles super highly when it comes to my definition of 'consistency'. Takeda always had trouble in maintaining his performances especially with obstacle modifications, such as failing the Lamp Grasper in Sasuke 9, and every new Salmon Ladder variant, as well as consistently failing obstacles he'd passed before. As subtleagent quoted, Shingo's also a very polarising example when it comes to consistency; many would regard his pre-Nagano Kanzen performances as highly consistent, but I would fundamentally disagree because from Sasuke 2-10 where he had a shot at Total Victory, he failed Stage 1 literally every other tournament, then from Sasuke 11-17 he had a much better run when it came to reaching Stage 3 but his performances just declined and declined.

For me, resilience to course changes is probably the most important factor when it comes to consistency. It shows that the competitor is able to maintain their high level of performance despite being faced with foreign obstacles, massive reductions in time limit, or recovering from injuries. Examples would be Hioki in 36 giving his best run yet despite his foot injury, Sato in 38, Okuyama in 26 etc. Progression on obstacles is also important; the ability to constantly utilise months of training in between tournaments to build on their past performances, no matter 'how they feel on the day'. Sato's never done worse than his past performances except for 33 due to a broken obstacle which I think is a huge testament to his consistency.

As I mentioned though, I purposely didn't define 'consistency' because when it comes to Sasuke results it's highly up for interpretation and hence I wanted to hear how others on the forum define the term.

8-11? What? Don't you mean maybe 8-21?

[tns8597]

zoran No I meant 8-11. 8-21 was his entire tenure on Sasuke, but from 12 onwards his performances weren't that great, no doubt attributed to his wrist injury. From 8-11 he cleared Stage 1 and constantly improved on his past failure point, then in 12 he goes and botches the Rolling Log.

[zoran]

Apr 22, 2021 5:05:33 GMT -5 tns8597 said:

zoran No I meant 8-11. 8-21 was his entire tenure on Sasuke, but from 12 onwards his performances weren't that great, no doubt attributed to his wrist injury. From 8-11 he cleared Stage 1 and constantly improved on his past failure point, then in 12 he goes and botches the Rolling Log.

Oh sorry I confused Nakata for Nagano.

[m4tt3r0x]

Okuyama for me. I'm not as impressed Sato auto-clears Stages 1 and 2 in post M9 Sasuke considering the first 2 Stages have been more static and unassuming on average compared to 22-27. Takeda and Nagano also were consistent on a much easier course back in the day.

[tns8597]

Apr 22, 2021 6:42:06 GMT -5 m4tt3r0x said:

Okuyama for me. I'm not as impressed Sato auto-clears Stages 1 and 2 in post M9 Sasuke considering the first 2 Stages have been more static and unassuming on average compared to 22-27. Takeda and Nagano also were consistent on a much easier course back in the day.

I honestly reckon Okuyama could've broken Takeda's record had it not been for 1) Stage 2 in 29 just being plain unfair and 2) his Cross Slider injury (which also occurred in 29). If Sasuke 29's Stage 2 difficulty was equal to that of, say, Sasuke 30's (110 second time limit and the Backstream not being hazardously hard), then he would've made Stage 3 (at age 43 no less), and given his consistency and age resilience probably would've done in Sasuke 30 and 31 as well. The guy was the most unassuming beast of the era he competed in.

[Zach Smith]

Aoki

[ChiBiJKT48]

LOL, what is your problem with All-Stars.... Four of those tournaments that you mentioned Takeda sucked in the first post are literally an effect of injury.

Yes, I also agree Takeda is not most consistent, definitely no, only a fanatic fan will answer that and I'm not. Sato Jun definitely the most consistent competitor for failing First Stage only once and he was only 16 years old at that time, no shame in failing it. Just that please stop this tiny hate towards All-Stars. Gotta remember that without them, this show is dead years ago and we won't be here discussing things.

[sasukefinnja]

Keitaro Yamamoto. Consistently failing stage 2.

[tns8597]

ChiBiJKT48 I never said I hated the All-Stars. I'm fully aware of their success and contribution to the show that has kept it alive today; I for one am a massive fan of Shingo for his attire and quirky personality, and I realize that no other 'group' has managed to replicate the legacy of the All-Stars (Morimoto Sedai....lol). And yes I know his Cliffhanger fails were largely due to his shoulder playing up but the results are the results; I'd say the same for any competitor, All-Star or not. I think you have this idea that I don't like them because I made a post that people put too much faith in them, but that's not taking anything away from their legacy whatsoever, it's more that people unfairly expect guys who are pushing 50-55 years old to reach Stage 3 because they did well when they were 25-30.... they're unbelievably fit for their age, but 'for their age' is the main limiting factor and is the case for any competitor bar a couple of anomalies like Yuuji or Okuyama.

And r/e Keitaro, what I think is the biggest shame is that he's able to do what most of the 'Stage 3 beasts' have famously struggled with, and that's consistently clear Stage 1. All the guys that we know can destroy Stage 3; Kishimoto, Ryo, the other Unlimited Cliffers etc. never lived up to their potential because Stage 1, and sometimes even qualifying (the skills to do so arguably being mostly in line with Stage 1) was always their main roadblock. Even guys like Morimoto and Tada struggled for years to qualify/beat Stage 1 before they made a name for themselves. There was always this notion of 'if they clear Stage 1 then they can wreak havoc on the rest of the course', with Stage 2 often ignored as almost a free pass to Stage 3 in most cases. But not for Keitaro and seemingly only Keitaro who has this anomalous losing battle with Stage 2, but I won't go into this as it's been extensively discussed for reasons x, y, and z....

[PizzaKing57]

Apr 22, 2021 7:37:20 GMT -5 Zach Smith said:

Aoki

😂😂😂😂😂😂

And as for Keitaro, I won't be excited to watch him in the next tournament cause of his disappointments, but he took my advice to train for the Backstream as helpful, so I guess we'll see.

[tns8597]

PizzaKing57 of course you did; whether he will actually take that advice, I doubt, but we will indeed see.