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Post by dudesky1000 on Jul 10, 2012 22:57:53 GMT -5
Well said Jams btw as an aside and I know I brought it up in twitter and on the G4 forums.. but does anyone think ANW will benefit from a show like "Navi"? And put the majority of the fluff there and just take snippets from that show and lightly integrate it into ANW? Seems the balance is off in ANW so not sure just cutting them completely out is the solution. Or should this be a topic for another discussion thread? I can start it if you want. I saw your post about the possibility of ANW "Navi" (I am NYCSasuke on that forum). The thought actually hadn't ever crossed my mind but it makes so much more sense to me than anything else. I would completely be up for this. An entire hour of fluff, and THEN you can be a little more ruthless in editing with the use of digests. If we see people getting featured on the Navi, then we expect to see a little profile on them when the time comes. During the 27 Navi competitors like Takahashi and Li weren't featured at all, so we didn't expect much from them and *surprise* Kong got ruthlessly digested in the beginning of the show and Li had about 1 minute of air time. I think it could use its own thread ;D
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 10, 2012 22:59:01 GMT -5
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Post by dudesky1000 on Jul 10, 2012 23:06:01 GMT -5
Cool I'll put it up LOL and now it all makes sense (NYCSasuke) tehehhehehe Hahaha slowly people are finding out who I am on each board and on facebook, its hilarious.
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Post by Ryoga Vee on Jul 11, 2012 6:43:14 GMT -5
I don't think you can say that's what they want when they probably haven't seen a real Sasuke to compare. I think women would be more responsive to the shirtless super athletes than the guys running around in foam shoulder pads and dyed hair. Oh... Haters gonna hate. You are right. I cant say what they want when the 40+ million viewers have not seen the Original Sasuke. And neither have people seen the original Office. I'm going to say something that will piss alot of people off but here we go... Sasuke is DEAD! And by that I mean that the current influx of US viewers could give a rats a** about what honer, or nature of "True competition" took place before it landed here state side. This is NOT Sasuke. Its American Ninja Warrior. It is now in the hands of a multimillion dollar corporation. Back by scores of marketing teams, top level executives, thousands of shareholders and an army of lawyers. What worked in Japan does not fly over here. Yes, it will turn away some of the true followers and fans of the show. But in the end, to the people that make the decisions, they don't care. Want to know why? There will always be people lining up to try out. There will always be people at home willing to watch.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jul 11, 2012 7:57:34 GMT -5
I don't think you can say that's what they want when they probably haven't seen a real Sasuke to compare. I think women would be more responsive to the shirtless super athletes than the guys running around in foam shoulder pads and dyed hair. Oh... Haters gonna hate. You are right. I cant say what they want when the 40+ million viewers have not seen the Original Sasuke. And neither have people seen the original Office. I'm going to say something that will piss alot of people off but here we go... Sasuke is DEAD! And by that I mean that the current influx of US viewers could give a rats a** about what honer, or nature of "True competition" took place before it landed here state side. This is NOT Sasuke. Its American Ninja Warrior. It is now in the hands of a multimillion dollar corporation. Back by scores of marketing teams, top level executives, thousands of shareholders and an army of lawyers. What worked in Japan does not fly over here. Yes, it will turn away some of the true followers and fans of the show. But in the end, to the people that make the decisions, they don't care. Want to know why? There will always be people lining up to try out. There will always be people at home willing to watch. I suggest you give this topic a read sasukemaniac.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=anw4&action=display&thread=4241
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Post by Philip on Jul 11, 2012 12:32:42 GMT -5
I don't think you can say that's what they want when they probably haven't seen a real Sasuke to compare. I think women would be more responsive to the shirtless super athletes than the guys running around in foam shoulder pads and dyed hair. Oh... Haters gonna hate. You are right. I cant say what they want when the 40+ million viewers have not seen the Original Sasuke. And neither have people seen the original Office. I'm going to say something that will piss alot of people off but here we go... Sasuke is DEAD! And by that I mean that the current influx of US viewers could give a rats a** about what honer, or nature of "True competition" took place before it landed here state side. This is NOT Sasuke. Its American Ninja Warrior. It is now in the hands of a multimillion dollar corporation. Back by scores of marketing teams, top level executives, thousands of shareholders and an army of lawyers. What worked in Japan does not fly over here. Yes, it will turn away some of the true followers and fans of the show. But in the end, to the people that make the decisions, they don't care. Want to know why? There will always be people lining up to try out. There will always be people at home willing to watch. Sasuke isn't necessarily dead, Ryoga. It's just sleeping.
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Post by TCM on Jul 11, 2012 13:43:38 GMT -5
I don't think you can say that's what they want when they probably haven't seen a real Sasuke to compare. I think women would be more responsive to the shirtless super athletes than the guys running around in foam shoulder pads and dyed hair. Oh... Haters gonna hate. You are right. I cant say what they want when the 40+ million viewers have not seen the Original Sasuke. And neither have people seen the original Office. I'm going to say something that will piss alot of people off but here we go... Sasuke is DEAD! And by that I mean that the current influx of US viewers could give a rats a** about what honer, or nature of "True competition" took place before it landed here state side.This is NOT Sasuke. Its American Ninja Warrior. It is now in the hands of a multimillion dollar corporation. Back by scores of marketing teams, top level executives, thousands of shareholders and an army of lawyers. What worked in Japan does not fly over here. Yes, it will turn away some of the true followers and fans of the show. But in the end, to the people that make the decisions, they don't care. Want to know why? There will always be people lining up to try out. There will always be people at home willing to watch. Probably not, but they sure as hell don't like the current balance of smothering the viewers with competitor profiles when a good portion of them don't make it far while digesting clears because American television can't exist without an inane amount of commercial breaks. Even that current influx knows a terribly edited obstacle course when they see it. Ultimately, if you import a beloved TV show to American soil, they expect it to go off as smoothly as the original version. The ratings show they don't feel that's happening. Also, with ANW5 being confirmed, in addition to Sasuke Malaysia and Singapore happening, it seems Sasuke still has some life.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 11, 2012 15:47:22 GMT -5
Ryoga seems to not read anything online about how everyone else but him wants the Japanese here We won't win the battle but we've already won the war. ANW is going to stay but the fans are still fighting to keep Sasuke alive. As far as the rest of the world Sasuke is still going and Singapore just crowned a champion ready to send it to Japan with TBS' blessing. So we'll see As for NBC.. that won't change. In 3 weeks we'll see the NBC Olympics. The same programming that loses viewers as the event goes to online streamers watching other countries who believe Live television with minimal fluff works America is not television corporate. I'm happy about that even if Ryoga drinks the corporate Kool-aid.
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Post by Ryoga Vee on Jul 11, 2012 18:18:30 GMT -5
Ryoga seems to not read anything online about how everyone else but him wants the Japanese here You are wrong. I want the Japanese here just as much as anyone else. I'm just not naive to the reality that is right in front of us. I'm not drinking corporate Kool-Aid. I just understand its mindset. All our compliants about who does and does not get shown, people who get FF'd, lack of Japanese presence. Excessive heart wrenching character profiles. I get it all. Also pleased dont mistake my comments as not agreeing with you atlease in part on many of these faults. But its clear that NBC is doing its hardest to distance itself from Sasuke. That's the direction they have chosen to go and I in most part understand why. What we are to them (New investors, NBC , ect) are fanatics. They feel that we will bark and moan about anything even slightly outside of the original format is sacrilegious to us. Ive seen people get upset that there was a lip added to the warped wall. And other minor course changes. Ive read those angry about Character profiles. Basically saying over all, "We don't care, just run the damn course." Or how they hate Johnny and Matt. I understand everyone frustration. But its out with the old and in with then new. And in some cases it will get worse. I guarantee you next season they will start inventing their own obstacles with no Japanese input. Based on what kind of fails and footage they can get off it. Point is, this program is never going to be an exact replica of Sasuke. It is... in every way shape and form an Americanize version . And with that comes all the benefits and faults.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 11, 2012 18:39:30 GMT -5
Understood entirely and appreciate your viewpoint to explain where you are coming from. And, I agree with you to a point. The difference is that you see that all we say is all bitching about change and we need to Grow up and see the system for what it is. Change the sake of it is not helping ANW. The only thing keeping ANW on the air is it's hardcore base because they already lost the casual a long time ago. Ratings don't like about that. BUT, I have to disagree with you on NBC not listening. We bitched not enough people had a chance to do it. (They gave us regionals after 5 years of clamoring for it). We wanted All-Stars (even if they weren't competing) and they brought over Nagano last minute. They gave us Sasuke in the year that Japan is struggling and we are happy for that. But, the elements that made the original good is what NBC took out for no good reason.
I also think you are taking personal the arguments of "cutting out the fluff". NO one wants a show without it.. the balance is what is at issue. Even Sasuke has fluff but they handle it much differently and NBC can learn from it. NBC is not known for a lot of things.. I've learned that working for them before so this is nothing new. But, they do bend when they know they are losing viewers because after all this is a business. This is the first time they have EVER done this format. This is virgin territory for them. They already went ahead and ordered another season but they have to tweak the product to get a sponsor this time. They have lost 3 sponsors so far. They did this as a gamble and they have to convert that into advertising dollars (something that they don't have now). And to do that they have to tweak it because the ratings are dropping based on what the viewers perceive need to change. ANW has a solid base of 3-4 million people and they have been consistent week in and week out but when VEgas hit they dropped off because of a very valid complaint. The balance of runs vs. profiles (some of which aired multiple times) needs to be fixed. Also possibly adding commentators to give the guys a break and keep them fresh will help. That's a CRAPLOAD of talking those poor guys have to do.. 6 regionals and finals and 2 days of finals in Vegas. The bitching about not having the Japanese here is a small minority. That's for Sasuke Japan and not ANW.
As for the changes, they just totally screwed up. By their own admission they brought the wrong crew here. Had they kept to the gameplan we wouldn't have so many arguments. The changes caused all of those problems that could have been avoided had that stunt company with zero knowledge of the show had just duplicated the results. A lot of the bitching has to do with them brazenly telling us it's a replica when it's so damn clear it isn't. I hate patronizing and NBC is known for that crap.
ANW is it's own thing and I'm happy about that. With the talk of a World Sasuke in the horizon we need a thorough event to pick out our team. But for NBC to say they are exactly Sasuke and they are not.. that has to stop.
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baronbk
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Post by baronbk on Jul 11, 2012 18:46:08 GMT -5
To go back a page... The stage 2 reruns were not just given to anyone or to people because they wanted clears. The obstacle was malfunctioning, they fixed it, anyone who failed that obstacle got a redo in the interest of fairness.
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Post by arsenette on Jul 11, 2012 18:57:49 GMT -5
To go back a page... The stage 2 reruns were not just given to anyone or to people because they wanted clears. The obstacle was malfunctioning, they fixed it, anyone who failed that obstacle got a redo in the interest of fairness. How do you reconcile what was overheard by several dozen people not even connected to each other (or even competitors) at the set where they were pissed no one was clearing and they spent so much money on a 4 stage course? The phrase "keep going until we got someone on those latter stages" was heard over and over.
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slam
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Post by slam on Jul 12, 2012 0:12:22 GMT -5
Just had to weigh in on the course construction issue. Just being a more casual viewer, the changes in Stage 1 don't bother me much. The course is still very, very hard, but not impossible with the right technique. As the day went on, it was probably apparent if the technique is different from what it was in Japan. It'd only bother me if a change made something actually unfair, like if a jump was only possible for taller contestants. The changes outlined below mostly seem like washes. The Rolling Log had only one grip but the padding was further. The Warped Wall was higher but had a longer runup. The Rolling Bridge had longer separations, but people certainly found their way across it. The number of people finishing Stage 1 seem like the right percentage to me. I certainly wouldn't want it to be much higher, or else the difficulty of the course would seem devalued. Based on the strength of the field, I'd want 15-30 people to finish Stage 1. The padding on the Halfpipe Attack landing is actually a welcome change, when two ANW contestants had major leg injuries on the previous incarnations' landing. The one change that seemed suspect to me was that it was possible to correctly grab the rope on the Halfpipe Attack but then have your momentum take your feet into the water. That was the one thing that just didn't seem right, because it was hard to say what they did wrong. I mean, I think it's pretty damn hard to run this tournament, especially for a new producer, just like it'd be damn hard to open a restaurant with just a chef's recipes and notes. It's not as if the Japanese producers never goofed up, like making obstacles that weren't safe or creating a tournament so hard that only 2 people made it to the 2nd obstacle of the 2nd round. These guys don't have 27 tournaments worth of experience and process to fall back on. And the Japanese producers could tweak or overhaul any obstacle in the next tournament anyway. The Jumping Spider seems to change subtly from tourney to tourney. The Halfpipe Attack could have contestants land on a giant inflatable turtle for all we know in the next Sasuke. Of course, that was just for Stage 1. From what I hear about Stage 2, I'll probably be singing a different tune when I see it. Now as to the presentation, I too would like a lot less in profile filler even though it's kind of closer to Sasuke presentation than the G4 digest style shows. What was most missing in the show were the reaction shots of fellow contestants. That really brings the emotion across more than anything. I found myself slightly missing random celebrity contestants and complete no-hopers. I thought that's who the wild cards would be instead of colorful characters eliminated in the prelims. (Hi Ryoga) As for the course here's a list of changes to stage 1 for those like arsenette who refuse to watch. Step Slider: Steps are same texture as the Quad Steps, this has not proven to be an issue Rolling Log: Only has one handle, landing platform comes out farther than in Sasuke resulting in some clears that would not have happened in Sasuke (granted those same falls wouldn't have happened with proper handles) Giant Swing: Same, slightly more distance though, different default locking mechanism that does not alter obstacle performance Jumping Spider: Runup shorter (Brian Kretsch said 4' shorter), Trampoline slightly lower than runup, Landing area on walls is wood instead of the foam the real JS has Halfpipe Attack: Wall has more vertical section (Think more of a curved [ a opposed to the ( the real one is), rope hangs down farther, landing platform is padded and flat even on the round section, no jump to Warped Wall is required since the path section comes out to the end of the "log" section) Warped Wall: 14 feet of usable wall (As opposed to 13 in Japan), wall is less curved at the bottom, it's more like the Warped Wall from trials with a reverse incline section at the back instead of long flat runup Spinning Bridge: Balls are padded and slightly more spaced out Final Climb: Tarzan rope appears to be the same but the Rope Ladder seems to be mounted higher, people seem to end up low on it with normal swings, this was an understandable change though.
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Post by Ryoga Vee on Jul 12, 2012 17:07:13 GMT -5
I found myself slightly missing random celebrity contestants and complete no-hopers. I thought that's who the wild cards would be instead of colorful characters eliminated in the prelims. (Hi Ryoga) I'm anything but a no-hoper.
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Post by arsenette on Jul 12, 2012 17:08:27 GMT -5
I found myself slightly missing random celebrity contestants and complete no-hopers. I thought that's who the wild cards would be instead of colorful characters eliminated in the prelims. (Hi Ryoga) I'm anything but a no-hoper. .. he just said that (translation he was shocked he was missing people like Octopus and Creepy model guy but instead got eliminated contestants from regionals).
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baronbk
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Post by baronbk on Jul 12, 2012 18:38:30 GMT -5
How do you reconcile what was overheard by several dozen people not even connected to each other (or even competitors) at the set where they were pissed no one was clearing and they spent so much money on a 4 stage course? The phrase "keep going until we got someone on those latter stages" was heard over and over. I don't know who heard that, but that's not what happened at least. They probably were pissed off and wanted someone to make stage 3, but they weren't just sending people through multiple times to get clears. If an obstacle malfunctioned, the competitor got a redo, like Nagano and the Slider Jump. Actually thats exactly what happened to someone! lol
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Post by thebobmaster on Jul 13, 2012 0:44:03 GMT -5
Since I just got a chance to see the results, I want to remark on something. Jesse Villareal going out on the Spin Bridge?! That was almost as much of a shock for me to see than knowing David Campbell fails there. Jesse has so much potential...
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 13, 2012 1:02:48 GMT -5
How do you reconcile what was overheard by several dozen people not even connected to each other (or even competitors) at the set where they were pissed no one was clearing and they spent so much money on a 4 stage course? The phrase "keep going until we got someone on those latter stages" was heard over and over. I don't know who heard that, but that's not what happened at least. They probably were pissed off and wanted someone to make stage 3, but they weren't just sending people through multiple times to get clears. If an obstacle malfunctioned, the competitor got a redo, like Nagano and the Slider Jump. Actually thats exactly what happened to someone! lol That's what I mean. There were a number of people (some even took to twitter) that went off about what they heard in addition to what was happening.
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Post by kekerules on Jul 14, 2012 5:39:47 GMT -5
I mean, I think it's pretty damn hard to run this tournament, especially for a new producer, just like it'd be damn hard to open a restaurant with just a chef's recipes and notes. It's not as if the Japanese producers never goofed up, like making obstacles that weren't safe or creating a tournament so hard that only 2 people made it to the 2nd obstacle of the 2nd round. These guys don't have 27 tournaments worth of experience and process to fall back on. This sums up everything I think about it. Where something has been "made easier" it has something else to balance it out. And I'm actually glad the spinning bridge is taking more people out. People got across it so it can't be unfair and it barely had an effect in Sasuke 27. I'm sad that it's taking out some of my favourite competitors but it means I'm actually still excited when someone clears the warped wall as I'm still unsure if they'll make it. It was pretty obvious most people were gonna complete stage 1 after clearing the warped wall in Sasuke 27. Again, I will also wait for Stage 2. I found myself slightly missing random celebrity contestants and complete no-hopers. I thought that's who the wild cards would be instead of colorful characters eliminated in the prelims. (Hi Ryoga) Again, I agree completely. It's fun seeing a ton of great athletes do well on the course. It's sad seeing them make a mistake and go out early on the step slider/rolling log. I miss a few people being there who, they know it as well, are there to go out early on and you can watch them fail without feeling bad for them. The main issue for next series is editing. Speed up the pace guys. And if what's been said about them running people till they get clears, then that has to stop too. I suspect it will now that they have viewers.
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