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Post by bigblind168 on Apr 21, 2010 19:43:42 GMT -5
wow...
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Post by The Chief on Apr 21, 2010 21:25:51 GMT -5
1) This is not new. 2) Some "unschoolers" do have an education, it really depends on the parent. 3) The people in the vid are called "radical unschoolers."(as mentioned in the vid) I know a kid who is "unschooled", but he still has a curriculum and is actually pretty smart.(His curriculum is reading books, and is a really fast reader and pretty smart). 4) Finally, this isn't homeschooling. Homeschooling has a formal curriculum.
Personally, I don't like this. The only way I know as much as I do is because I did have a formal curriculum.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 21:28:17 GMT -5
Wow! What a great excuse for parents not to do their job!
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Post by ansem120 on Apr 21, 2010 22:20:24 GMT -5
First off, I am unschooled. And I can say with great confidence that my parents moving me to an "Unschooled" education was definitely the right move.
Believe it or not, even though I am completely responsible for what I choose to learn, Unschooling is actually not that different from a Formal Education in terms of how you progress.
Yes, it is completely up to me to decide my curriculum, but that doesn't mean I can slack off and get away with it. I don't know if that video addressed this, (My computer screwed up and I had to skip 30 seconds.) but regardless of what you learn, regardless of your age, you have to visit a certified teacher at the end of the year to pass into the next grade. (At least in Ohio.)
And don't go thinking this "examination" is a cakewalk. I have heard about other Homeschoolers being held back a grade if they simply had not learned enough that year.
I also want to bring up one more point, as a Homeschooler, you cannot enter College until you have passed the 12th Grade exam. Your progress is on file, and if the girl in the video is in fact a Junior in High School, then she has successfully passed 10 Grade exams so far. (Again, that depends on the state they are in, but I am not aware of any other way of Homeschooling.) And at age 15, I have a hard time believing she has failed any exams so far. If anything, unless my math is wrong, she would actually be one year ahead of the normal pace. (Another benefit to Homeschooling, you can start as early as you want.)
I will stop my rant right here, because I would be straying away from the subject at hand if I went any further. I just wish people knew that most of us Homeschoolers are not Anti-social idiots. I'm not saying we are all incredibly accomplished students and models of a perfect citizen, but keep in mind that what you see in that video represents 20% of Homeschoolers at best. And I guarantee you that if they showed the lives of the majority of Homeschoolers, they would be filming the lives of virtually normal, everyday people.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 22:29:08 GMT -5
I've had so much experience in grade school, I KNOW for a fact, I would be a completely different person weather homeschooled or unschooled.
Do home schooled people get proms?
Do they even ask a girl out on a date?
Do they get picked on by a bully? And learn to deal with it?
Do they have as much friends as kids do in school?
I can't see how a kid at home can gain the same social skills as a kid who spends 6 hours a day next to people.
Kids that are homeschooled are missing out of a great experience that most adults treasure there whole lives. I honestly can't believe people think home schooling is better.
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Post by The Chief on Apr 21, 2010 22:36:00 GMT -5
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes(if not more)
funny, I have more friends in the smallest of my 7 clubs than I had in 5 years of public school. There is a homeschool prom, I know homeschoolers that do go out with other homeschoolers.
Now the bully thing. While there aren't as many, there still are homeschooled bullies. In the clubs I talked about(of which there are probably 50 in my state alone for high schoolers) there are kids that pick on other kids.
Keep the questions coming.
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Post by ansem120 on Apr 21, 2010 22:53:23 GMT -5
Do home schooled people get proms? Do they even ask a girl out on a date? Do they get picked on by a bully? And learn to deal with it? Do they have as much friends as kids do in school? I will answer your questions in order. 1. Yes, there are Homeschool proms that people can go to if they so please. Personally, I never saw the appeal of a Prom. 2. I am currently single, but I have had girlfriends in the past. I feel compelled to note that I have never had a Homeschooled girlfriend. 3. I have never encountered a bully, but am I right in saying that you actually consider encountering a bully in grade school an advantage that children who have a Formal Education have? 4. Yes, I am friends with people on my Golf Team, friends with workers at my local Golf Course, and I have a core circle of 4 friends who I have known since I was 12. And another thing, 2 of my "core" friends are also Homeschooled. And I don't mean to be mean, but you realize you are a perfect example of the person I am talking about in the final paragraph of my last post, right?
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Post by Badalight on Apr 21, 2010 23:00:17 GMT -5
Just curious, what state do you live in ansem?
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Post by Oti on Apr 21, 2010 23:14:58 GMT -5
JP: You seem to think all home schoolers are withdrawn from society like on the episode of South Park. This is not the case. I've known two families of home schooled children, both of which would still go outside and play regularly. They may not be dealing with the typical school bullies, but there are a*****es everywhere. They're sure to run into one eventually. Chief: You cannot answer for every home schooler. While you may have been lucky enough to learn to deal with bullies and ask others out on dates and whatnot, not all home schooled people are. Some form of public school would probably do them good, social-skill-wise. Carry on!
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Post by The Chief on Apr 21, 2010 23:17:54 GMT -5
Oti, in some of my groups, I'm the guy that stays indoors all the time and does nothing all day....My point is that I'm the one that does the least, and I was able to get all of that.
Now, if you lived in the middle of Montana, where it's 2 miles to your next door neighbor, then....you'll be a farmer by trade.
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Post by ansem120 on Apr 21, 2010 23:25:21 GMT -5
Just curious, what state do you live in ansem? Ohio.
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Post by jfeathe on Apr 21, 2010 23:30:04 GMT -5
In response to jpjuice: (btw the quite thing messed up since I'm on a iPod touch. Just ignore the stuff on the bottom)
I am homeschooled and this Friday I am going to a homeschool prom. This is a REAL prom at a nice hotel with a meal and dancing. I've done it in 10th, 11th and about to do it in 12th grade.
About dates, I'm taking a very lovely to the prom as a date.
About bullying. Is it really necessary to have to deal with bullying to get "real world experience?"
About friends. I have great relationships with a ton of people. We're talking high school college age and beyond.
My education has not hurt one bit. I recently got accepted to UT in the McCombs school of business. I say this not to brag but to provide an example of how homechooling is a pretty damn good form of education. Probably the most well rounded type of eduaction (if you do it right.)
About unschooling, I'm pretty wary of it. Parental motivation and instruction I believe are mandatory for a good education.
I can't see how a kid at home can gain the same social skills as a kid who spends 6 hours a day next to people.
Kids that are homeschooled are missing out of a great experience that most adults treasure there whole lives. I honestly can't believe people think home schooling is better. [/quote]
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Post by Oti on Apr 22, 2010 1:11:25 GMT -5
The real point here that everyone should realize is that no form of schooling is good or bad, better or worse or any of that jazz. It depends on a ton of factors. For example, a kid who never went to school could be much more intelligent than a kid who went to the best school in the country simply because the "uneducated" kid could have the desire for knowledge and the school kid could have been lazy/uncaring. And that's just one factor. In my opinion, yes. I believe one should learn to deal with unadulterated a*****es early on because they're out there in the real world. I consider the abilities to stand up for yourself, argue and fight back very, very valuable. When not done excessively, of course. Didn't even see this part before. I'm gonna disagree on this, but because I view things from a different angle. I don't treasure my school years. The wasted time and missed opportunities. The sub-standard education. The jerks I went to school with. The things I was harassed for (long hair, WTF?). I wish I had "woken up", so to speak, sooner so I could have dropped out and gotten my GED. Would've saved a lot of time that I could have used to better myself or even just work and get some extra cash. Back to unschooling itself: It could work. Just about anything could work. But, just like everything else, it could go horribly wrong too. I definitely think some kind of standards need to be implemented and met, just to make sure the kid isn't falling behind. If he or she is, perhaps this isn't the scholastic approach for him or her. Simple.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2010 8:00:32 GMT -5
I was homeschooled. My sister just finished homeschooling. We live in Louisiana. We had to take the GED to graduate. Yes, there are disadvantages socially, but you can make up for that by joining clubs/groups. We go to church and I go to a martial arts class. There are homeschooling groups, too. We used to go to one of those. We stopped when we moved out to Haughton because it was too far away, but we still go to church. As for education, well, I had to take standardized tests at the end of the year. From 8th grade on I scored post-high school on every subject. I easily passed the GED and I got a 26 on my ACT. I'm currently a sophomore in college. Not counting the classes I'm currently taking, I've had 14 classes. I got 13 A's and 1 B (college algebra). I'd say I got a good education. As for dealing with bullies, I haven't really encountered any bullies, but I do know how to handle them. Even though my sister and I didn't have to deal with things like bullies or peer pressure, our parents still talked to us about those things so that we would know how to handle them if they ever came up. I dunno about this "unschooling" though. My parents made sure that my sister and I had a good curriculum; math, science, history, English, etc. They didn't just turn us loose and tell us to learn whatever we wanted.
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Post by arsenette on Apr 22, 2010 8:49:21 GMT -5
Wow I agreed with Oti 100%.... LOL I've met a LOT of kids that were homeschooled. Mostly those who were into sports like Figure Skating where their parents were delusional and thought that by making them figure skating 24 hours a day they could be friggin' Olympic Champions. Some barely could read or write. There were also those who did fantastically well and were borderline genius! Both though suffered in the real world (college) when it came socially. Depended how long they were away from real kids. Parents have to work extra hard to help these kids throughout their life not just in school. I noticed that the major problems with development happened when the parents were a bit too lax and allowed a child to decide for themselves. People forget that children are not yet fully developed mentally to deal with real world experiences. You develop that part as a human being by actually LIVING in it.. No amount of book knowledge can save you on that. So dances, activities is just not going to cut it to simulate real world experience that something like a typical school education can. You have to learn to be motivated when you have a crap teacher and the kid 3 rows behind you pelts boogers at you. You also have to deal with people who don't appreciate how book smart you are and you are cocky as hell because you think you are God (because of how smart you are). That stuff gets lost in any kind of homeschool. I have noticed that no matter the environment (homeschool vs. typical school) if the kid has issues emotionally it will manifest itself in many ways despite whatever type of education they are in. So yes I do agree that none are better than the other on paper (I've seen crap schools in both home and typical) but overall I still have to give a tip to typical school for the education you can't buy - real world experience.
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Post by jfeathe on Apr 22, 2010 11:08:19 GMT -5
Arsenette, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think you realise how many opportunities there really are for homeschoolers. Anything you can get in a public school, you can get in a homeschool. There are clubs, dances, heck, there's even a homeschool honor society!
About suffering in the real world... well, I disagree completely. In public school you spend all your time with the same people who are the same age as you. I have taken classes with students exactly my age, older, or even 2 or 3 times my age. This is simply something you can't get in a public school.
I will say however, that I have been extremely blessed. My parents went to great lengths to find these opportunities for me. Not every homeschooler will get the same social or educational experience as I had. But, if you look hard enough, you can get a completely fulfilling experience being homeshooled.
Let me say this just one more time: You CAN get a "real world experience" being homeschooled.
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Post by arsenette on Apr 22, 2010 11:16:21 GMT -5
I realize that speaking to someone who is in homeschool during the age will target a defensive response because they are targeted so much in the media and even their peers. Get used to it. It's a natural target since so many cases against it have been formed. Is it just? Probably not but that is the fact of life. I'm going with my 20+ years of examples with children in BOTH sets of schooling. Most of my in-laws are in public school education (teachers, principles.. heck even a super superintendent) and on my side of the family I spent a lot of time around homeschool kids because the education in Philly sucks for the most part (I went to an academic school that was ranked 1st in the East coast so I can't compare it with anything else.. my school is an anomaly). The majority from my experience are socially handicapped. Could be something as simple as sucky parents, environmental issues (where they were raised) or whatnot.. but they had a harder time adapting to adult life well after their homeschool years. I think it's easier speaking to someone outside of the schooling age to get a better feel as to how they grow up to adults. Right now most defensive are still in it and feel the need to stand up and defend it. It's a natural defense mechanism. I have no children and won't have any children but I'm still surrounded by my family and friends who have kids and are weighing the options of both. It's still fresh in my mind and still something I can see objectively from the outside since I gain nothing to pick either side.
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Post by Badalight on Apr 22, 2010 13:11:42 GMT -5
Jfeathe: Now I know you're just trying to defend yourself and what not, but are you saying people who go to public school only hang out with people their own age?
Few things wrong with that...
1. Elementary school is K-6th grade, tons of different ages.
2. Highschool can be 6-12, though usually 9-12. Different ages there.
I have a lot of friends. I'd say it's easier to get more friends in a public school. (Not saying you can't get friends being homeschooled, but I'd say it's easier to get friends, and more of them in a public school)
Why?
Let's look at this
1. You have 7 classes a day, usually with different people each class. That's atleast around 140 you interact with on a daily basis.
2. Friends from previous years that you still hang out with.
3. Friends from extension of friends or siblings. Half of my friends through highschool I met through my brother.
4. Sports. School sports you'll meet a lot of new people. Even more if you do more sports.
Not only that, but then we can get friends outside of school aswell. I have tons of friends at my church, my rec soccer leauge, my competitive soccer league, I have a ton of friends that I've met through social events like "sports night". I meet people through parties which I am invited to by other friends.
So in conclusion, I have hundreds of friends, mostly thanks to Public School or as a result of public school (Since you learn social skills probably better) Plus I still got friends outside of school.
Also, before anyone says "Well how many of those people do you hang out with regularly? How many can you actually say are CORE friends?!"
The answer to that is a lot. I hang out with my friends everyday, not just 4-5... a lot of friends. There are lot of people that I would trust to tell anything to.
I'm not saying a homeschooler can't have that many friends, but it's definitely harder.
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Post by Oti on Apr 22, 2010 14:14:35 GMT -5
Arsenette, I feel our point has been missed.
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Post by arsenette on Apr 22, 2010 14:38:35 GMT -5
Arsenette, I feel our point has been missed. Much agreed.
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