The Topics of Homosexuality/Religion

Just out of curiousity.. Why did you decide a topic that you're intending to start a debate with in the spam forum? isn't Off Topic a more likely place if debate topics are allowed?

Well, the idea (I'm pretty sure) is that the gay people are supposed to suppress it and basically live a loveless life. No self-expression or true happiness for them. They should be with members of the opposite sex so they can hopefully be "fixed". That's what they get for being gay.

I've always seen it like this: I'm straight. I could not have sex with another man and REALLY, HONESTLY, 100% enjoy it. I cannot simply choose to enjoy it. It doesn't work that way.

So... how are gays different?

I got to ask, has anyone ever met a person who once lived a homosexual lifestyle in the past, and now is happily married? I have met a few. I have also met folks who lived their lives straight, and then "Came out" at 50 years old. If it was impossible to change, then did these folks change? Even though you can take a blood test, DNA, X-rays, of these individuals you cannot distinguish between them and currently practicing homosexuals. They at some point have said "I was born this way" yet they changed how, if change is impossible. Here is an article that states that a genetic cause cannot be directly establish.
discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay

My favorite quote is:
“Frankly, the biggest problem of the genetic possibilities is the evolutionary problem,” says Michael Bailey, the researcher who found that women get turned on by anything, who is now working with Sanders. “And I don’t think that Dean [Hamer] has taken that problem seriously enough.” Men who like men are obviously less likely to procreate. Even if social pressures through the ages led some gay men to have some children, the significantly lower rate of reproduction would eventually lead to the disappearance of the gene"

I repeat here if, who says what is OK. If you don't want Bible thumpers telling you what to do, I can see that, but what happens when NAMBLA shows up at an elementary school, every argument you use to justify what you do, they will use. Will you say "What you do is wrong", and they will say "That's what you were told, you will deny me a right you fought for and got?". You cannot say "I can draw the line, you can't" or you will become the bigots you hate"

Others feel the same way about homosexuality as any moral person (As I know you are) feels about bestiality or child molestation. Yet those who practice these deviant behaviors fell that what they do is "Normal" for them. Don't take this as me saying your a deviant, just you deride those who believe your behavior as wrong, and then say others are doing wrong how does that make you any different than the Bible thumpers that canceled the prom?

As far as the Bible is concerned I can simply share what belief in Jesus has done for me. I was deep into alcohol, porn, cheating on my wife. Being an alcoholic, from a long line of alcoholics, I thought I could never change. One day I got into trouble for my drinking and was order to go to Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). I started working the program, and came in contact with a power greater than myself, and my life became much better. As I grew spiritually I grew closer to God, and Jesus. I am not, nor on this side of Heaven, ever going to be perfect. I am getting better, more moral, spiritual progress, not spiritual perfection. I changed, even though I was told my genes DOOMED me, and It's all God's fault. Now Oti you can equivocate about this contradiction or that hypocrite, and I will tell you what I found when Jesus found me. Tell me I'm wrong, and I will tell you, this is what has worked for me. I have found when someone has a disagreement with the Bible or religion, it's because they looked into the Bible and it disagreed with what they wanted to do, or some ill informed individual uses it as a club. The Bible is a book of hope, it starts out explaining the hopeless situation mankind finds itself in, defines a level of perfection our sin soaked minds could never obtain, and just when all hope is lost, Jesus comes and pays a price we could never pay. Only a God who cares so much for each of us that He would pay any price to save us, would allow His willing Son to step out of Heaven and save someone as wasted as I! A lot of us are brokenhearted because life doesn't seem to be fare, we lose love ones and we don't understand why. We have addictions, sins, so many things we feel helpless against, this is why Jesus was willing to die to give us hope, and the strength to change. Christianity, no matter how you've mistreated by "Christians" is not a series of do's and don'ts, it's an acknowledgment that we are not perfect and we need help, and a sign that Gos loves us and is willing to pay ANY price to save us. Some feel "I'm not good enough, I'll never make it", it's true. However, God knew this and has a plan. Some say "why doesn't God just save everyone?" because Heaven would become Hell to someone who thinks God is nothing more than a killjoy who limits them. I wouldn't want to spend eternity with someone who I don't like, who I think has either ignored me all my life, or caused all my difficulties. Love is a choice, I had to be created to be able to chose not to love for love to be real, or I would be a robot. If God forced me into Heaven against my will He would be every bad thing people say about Him. Before you get made at Christians, realize that some of us have made this choice out of love. Because a being that no need to create me did, that He had no obligation to save me, and yet did, and loved me when I couldn't even love myself.

Homosexuals I don't have a problem with. It's their business.

Religion, well I think that the Holy Bible, (Or as a friend of mine once called it, the Holy Babble) is a work of fiction. But I don't know about whether a god exists or not. Something can't come from nothing according to the laws of space, matter and time. So some people say that there must be a creator. But then somebody will ask, "Where did the god come from?"

Well maybe the god exists outside of space, matter and time? So the laws don't apply to the god? Hmm it annoys me so much that NOBODY actually knows...

What? I was saying it doesn't bother me lol! I meant that it's their business what they do or don't do, so they can do what they like, because it's none of my business.

haha yes I can see now why you'd think that.

So FAMAS, where did anything come from? The Big Bang Theory has no explanation of what was happening 1 second before it happened. The Bible explains that God created time on the first day and thus is not effected by it. We see things from a temporal perspective, but there was no time before God created it and, there will be no time in Eternity. It's hard to explain because we have never experienced an existence without time. It kind of like when I was young, and no one could tell me how all those people got into my TV set. At the time I couldn't comprehend signals, cathode ray tubes, electricity, electronic circuitry, etc..., still can't tell you enough about it to make one from scratch, but I still watch Ninja Warrior on mine.

For you to say "I know for an absolute fact that NO where in the universe does God exists" is to say you have absolute knowledge, and thus you would have to be the God you say doesn't exist. If you don't except the evidence of God's existence that surrounds you, then it's easy to say "There is not evidence". What logic do you throw out, the irreducibility of cells, the incomplete fossil record (Of which Darwin said "If a complete, unbroken trial of fossils do not go all way back to the origin, then this theory will have to be discarded, and another considered), the lack of explanation what happened to make life self-replicating, why my heart aches when I see beauty(What part does art, song, or beauty play in evolution? Dogs do well without it.), or why I ask questions at all? Who put it in my heart to care? If the solution doesn't help me, why look for it?

'What logic do you throw out, the irreducibility of cells, the incomplete fossil record (Of which Darwin said "If a complete, unbroken trial of fossils do not go all way back to the origin, then this theory will have to be discarded, and another considered)"

This is not from the Bible, it is from science. Plenty of science remains unanswered BY science, so what you have is a theory, and faith that that theory is correct. Science of this nature has it's own dogma about it.