joemello
Komiya Rie
#1 Unlimited curmudgeon
Posts: 515
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Post by joemello on Mar 15, 2010 11:30:13 GMT -5
If you're going by that standard, I think you'd have to use Judaism. Granted, this is coming from a Roman Catholic with minimal understanding of religious history.
By Darwinian standards, homosexuality is a mutation. Cancer is also a mutation. So why do members of one group get scorn yet members of the other get sympathy?
And none of this Intelligent Design crap. You cannot take two schools of thought in direct contradiction with each other and try to compromise.
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Post by Oti on Mar 15, 2010 13:44:58 GMT -5
Exactly. How do you even decide that? Does it go by the "I was here first!" rule? In that case, it would probably be Judaism. That's the first religion (I'm pretty sure). Jesus Christ followed it *. If it worked for the guy who is supposedly the son of God/God himself/the Easter Bunny, it should work for all of us.
* Contrary to popular belief (from church lies and Bible rewrites), Jesus Christ did NOT go around telling us to go to church and spread Christianity and all that stuff. He even said not to worship him or build a church around what he is saying. Do you think he'd be happy if he came back? Think about it. Not only are millions of people tricking into following words that aren't his, religion is also a business that deals in blood and money. I bet the mob leaders of today wish they had a shtick as good as religion.
I would think it's because a majority of people don't see it that way (even though some of them claim to believe in evolution). They think it's a choice and you can be "cured" of it. Maybe if it were a little more obvious (came with tumors? Gay tumors?) people wouldn't be so quick to damn others.
"My God can beat up your God" comes to mind. I'm pretty sure a compromise amongst (major) religious folks is pretty much impossible just because they're all brainwashed into thinking their religion is right and all the others are wrong.
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joemello
Komiya Rie
#1 Unlimited curmudgeon
Posts: 515
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Post by joemello on Mar 15, 2010 14:24:49 GMT -5
I would think it's because a majority of people don't see it that way (even though some of them claim to believe in evolution). They think it's a choice and you can be "cured" of it. Then there needs to be better education. If I'm offered the choice between brussel sprouts and chocolate cake, I would choose the cake because my body has told me it likes cake more. Likewise, I think homosexuals prefer their own gender to the other because their internal wiring has told them the same thing. Since homosexual relationships doesn't help the reproduction of the species, it's a Darwinian defect.
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Post by Oti on Mar 15, 2010 15:30:09 GMT -5
Yes, but this has been apparent for a long time. The US is quickly falling behind other countries in education (among other things).
*sigh* I wish more people shared your common sense, Joe. I really do.
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Post by Badalight on Mar 15, 2010 18:54:43 GMT -5
Yeah, because it makes so much sense that people choose to be homosexual.Tkae 3 minutes and think about if that even makes any sense.
I grow up learning to like girls, so I'm not gonna choose to like guys out of nowhere, it's obviously something you're just born with.
I'm sure maybe there are cases where a girl was abused by men or something so she started dating women, but that's a different story.
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Post by lostinube on Mar 15, 2010 19:22:52 GMT -5
Judaism comes first. The break comes when some believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the messiah and the subsequent religion is opened to anyone (Judaism being connected to blood). Islam believes that Jesus was A prophet, not THE prophet. Muhammad is the "seal" of the prophets, i.e. the final prophet so his word (via the Koran) is law. The Jewish people are still waiting for the messiah. Technically they all have the same God. It's just a matter of who you think has the ball last. Also: www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g4EmbNtiFqVvMnsVPU_z_4LTVSbQD9EETR283
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Post by thebobmaster on Mar 17, 2010 20:33:57 GMT -5
I find myself in a bit of an awkward situation, honestly. I go to church occasionally (though I don't make a habit of it, as I'm a lazy bum on the weekends), yet I am bi, attracted to both genders equally. I'm not open about it as such, but I won't deny it if asked directly.
How do I deal with the conflict of my religion and my sexuality? I realize that nowhere in the Bible does it say it is a mortal sin to be gay. In fact, the closest thing you have to it is a verse in Leviticus, which says that it is a sin "for a man to lay with a man as he would a woman".
There are a few problems with using this as a condemnation of gay people. First off, talk about your vague wording. Do they mean snuggling? Actual penetration? Secondly...it's in Leviticus. The same book in the Bible that condemns eating shellfish and long hair. Does that mean if you don't get a haircut, you're going to hell? No. Leviticus, from what my understanding of the Bible is, is basically the first health book. They were trying to keep people healthy, and the best way to do that, at the time, was declare it a sin. They didn't understand salmonella, and undercooked meat being poisonous. So pork (which can have tapeworms) is a sin. I'm no theologian, but that's my understanding.
Finally, I always bring up one verse to the Bible-thumpers who say that gay people are going to hell. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." It's good advice, and worth taking for both sides. I don't hate Christians. I just have a problem with the ones who hold their religion over me due to my sexual preferences.
Also finally, I don't find it odd about the people who marry, and then come out of the closet at 50, nor do I find it as proof for homosexuality being a choice. I myself did not come to terms with my bisexuality until I was 18 or 19. And really, who would choose to have people beat them up, call them insulting names, and be told they are going to hell?
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Post by bigblind168 on Mar 17, 2010 22:12:02 GMT -5
I find myself in a bit of an awkward situation, honestly. I go to church occasionally (though I don't make a habit of it, as I'm a lazy bum on the weekends), yet I am bi, attracted to both genders equally. I'm not open about it as such, but I won't deny it if asked directly. How do I deal with the conflict of my religion and my sexuality? I realize that nowhere in the Bible does it say it is a mortal sin to be gay. In fact, the closest thing you have to it is a verse in Leviticus, which says that it is a sin "for a man to lay with a man as he would a woman". There are a few problems with using this as a condemnation of gay people. First off, talk about your vague wording. Do they mean snuggling? Actual penetration? Secondly...it's in Leviticus. The same book in the Bible that condemns eating shellfish and long hair. Does that mean if you don't get a haircut, you're going to hell? No. Leviticus, from what my understanding of the Bible is, is basically the first health book. They were trying to keep people healthy, and the best way to do that, at the time, was declare it a sin. They didn't understand salmonella, and undercooked meat being poisonous. So pork (which can have tapeworms) is a sin. I'm no theologian, but that's my understanding. Finally, I always bring up one verse to the Bible-thumpers who say that gay people are going to hell. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." It's good advice, and worth taking for both sides. I don't hate Christians. I just have a problem with the ones who hold their religion over me due to my sexual preferences. Also finally, I don't find it odd about the people who marry, and then come out of the closet at 50, nor do I find it as proof for homosexuality being a choice. I myself did not come to terms with my bisexuality until I was 18 or 19. And really, who would choose to have people beat them up, call them insulting names, and be told they are going to hell? I like the way you think. First off, ffs people, the bible isnt supose to be taken literally. Its symbolism. Think "To Kill a Mockingbird" did it ever happen? No. Is it full of symbolism? Yes. Is Atticus Finch a complete boss? Hell yes. I want you to think for a second. Do you hate black people? Or asians? Maybe hispanics? Or hell, possibly Italians or middle eastern people? No, you don't (if you do, I have lost SO SO SO much respect for you). Well they cannot help if they're black, or asian, or hispanic. People can't help if they're gay. So why all the hate? It is because a book says that Gay people are evil and bad. This is the same book where a guy was mad that a bunch of kids were making fun of him being bald... So god had the kids killed by bears. The same book where the reason we have different languages and cultures is because a lighthouse was destroyed. There are books that say Black people are evil and Communism is a good idea and will work. Are either true? Are black people evil? Will Communism work? No, and no. So, why do you hate gay people? Lots of books say lots of things. It doesn't ever mean it's right or correct.
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Post by Oti on Mar 18, 2010 0:58:44 GMT -5
Technically, the Hebrews believed in the Old Testament long before it was Judaism. It didn't become Judaism until Jesus came around and people started accusing him of being a prophet. I congratulate you on your courage, sir. Not many people will admit they're not totally straight, as if something's wrong with it. I respect you already. Blind, while I agree with everything you've posted 100%, remember: not everyone thinks like we do. Some people believe you can choose to be gay. Some believe the Bible is the book of all books, the one and only TRUE word from the Big G himself. Because of all these different beliefs, not everyone is going to think like us. You know. Logically. Now, I say that people who believe in the Bible 100% are illogical because the Bible doesn't work. It just doesn't. There are too many contradictions. Some can be explained with the good ol', "it's not supposed to be taken literally!". That doesn't work for others. For example, from www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#contradictions : Say someone hasn't exactly "given" him/herself to God, but he or she doesn't NOT believe in him either. According to MAT 12:30, that means he or she is against God. However, according MAR 9:40, he or she is with him. Which is it? Shouldn't the word of God be more clear? At the very least, shouldn't it flow and not contradict ITSELF? You know* what really happened? A bunch of Hebrew people were out of control in ancient times. They killed, stole, raped and watched Fox News. Realizing those Hebrew folk were basically under-evolved and, thus, really, really stupid, some people came up with a fairy tale to tell them. It said they needed to be good or they'll go to a terrible place full of fire and suffering. This fairy tale was the Torah (otherwise known as the Old Testament). Fast forward a bunch of years. Things have been edited, added, removed and ruined in every way imaginable. On top of the contradictions, why did humans need to change the WORD OF GOD? What right do we have to question the Almighty One? That's ok, though. Some people apparently haven't noticed and will still believe anything. *Edited because I left out the word "know". My bad. ;D
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FAMAS
Morikami Daisuke
Posts: 270
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Post by FAMAS on Apr 17, 2010 20:18:09 GMT -5
Gentlemen my apologies for bringing this thread alive once more, but seeing as it's a religiously themed video I thought I'd post it here. Some of you may have seen it before. What do you all think of it?
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Post by The Chief on Apr 17, 2010 21:05:36 GMT -5
Oti, about your "contradiction", you're putting Ye Old English into Modern English...they are referring to two different things...one is sin, the other being in the physical sense. Jesus in the second one was referring to a man that was casting out demons in His name. The second was just a reference to sin. Understandable you would think that that is a contradiction.
The Middle East used to be extremely terrible, even more so than today. The reason for that was liquor; they always drank too much and didn't stop. And it was Hebrews and non-Hebrews, not just the Hebrews.
And, blind, the Tower of Babel wasn't a lighthouse...it was a building designed to reach heaven. So, God scrambled the languages so they could not understand. And, finally, throw whatever you want at me, for I stand on the rock that is the Bible, and you in slowly-sinking sand.
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FAMAS
Morikami Daisuke
Posts: 270
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Post by FAMAS on Apr 19, 2010 13:59:25 GMT -5
Chief, what do you think about the theory of evolution?
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Post by The Chief on Apr 19, 2010 15:55:15 GMT -5
honestly, I think it is still just a theory. Nothing has definitively proved it. I know that it's never been proven that God created everything, and it probably never will be proved. One of those things we just may never know.
However, I do believe that God created everything because of my faith.
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Post by Oti on Apr 24, 2010 21:44:53 GMT -5
Hmmm. Didn't see this until today. Weird. Old English =/= misinterpreting, but alright. Could you put them both in context for me so we can see? I'm not calling BS on you, I would just like to see if you're actually right. Assuming you are, there are many, many more contradictions than just those. It'd be kinda impressive if you had an excuse for all the others, though. On a semi-related note... It doesn't make sense to use the Bible as a reason to ban gay marriage. If the Bible should be taken as symbolism, and it says marriage is between a man and a woman, why can't gays be wed on the idea that one of them is the man in the relationship and the other is the woman. Symbolism. Wait. What's that? We shouldn't interpret it that way? That passage is to be taken literally? Who put you in charge of the Bible? Who are you to say what we can and cannot take literally in the Bible. It's supposedly the word of God. Surely he doesn't need your help spreading the rules. This is why I don't buy Bible-"reasoning"; it makes no sense! It can be twisted and interpreted in so many different ways that excuses/explanations can be found for everything! Because of the way Bible "reasoning" works (or so it seems to me), my conclusion is that the only way you'll buy into the Bible is if you suspend your logic and reasoning and just believe whatever is thrown at you. And when you start doing THAT, you've accepted a fate worse than death. Without thought (real, CRITICAL thought) and the urge to ask questions, what separates us from animals? Our shoes? Our cellphones? Our clothes, houses, air planes, weapons and processed foods? Hardly. There are no records (that I can find) of liquor being distilled and consumed intentionally before the 8th or 9th centuries A.D., so that doesn't make much sense. But still: Why couldn't it have been our destructive, greedy, violent nature? Not all cultures are equal when it comes to civilized behavior, even today. Who's to say some people in some cultures weren't out of control, just because they were uncivilized? To blame one thing for everything that goes wrong is a little silly, don't you think? I really hate organized religions but even I don't blame them for EVERYTHING. Incredibly annoying "holier than thou" vibe I get from this quote aside, there is no solid explanation for all the contradictions and BS in the Bible and all the destruction and blood left in the church's wake. "I believe in this" and "the Bible says it's the word of God" are not evidence, nor are they arguments. However, there ARE shreds of evidence scattered throughout time that show glimpses into the Bible's true purpose, which was most likely to control people. It worked then and it continues to work today. All in all, faith/no faith, whatever... From a simple, logical standpoint, for being a "rock", as you put it, the Bible sure has a lot of flaws and evidence against it. Here's another nifty source I found: godisimaginary.com/index.htmSome good stuff there. I would also like to ask something: Assuming the Bible's God exists, can he make a rock so heavy he cannot move it? ("it" being evolution) Nothing can really be "definitely" proven if you think about it, but philosophy aside... There is substantial evidence that proves evolution has happened in the past and is happening today. This site seems like a wealth of information: www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/I will agree with you on one point, though: We'll probably never know for sure what went down in the VERY beginning. There may very well have been a God that started things off for us. In fact, I BELIEVE THAT. I really do believe there's something bigger than all of us out there that helped life begin. I just don't believe in the illogical, contradictive storybook God in the Bible.
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