Cliffhanger Dimension's hate and debate

[xelA197]

I've noted that almost everyone in the SASUKE's community consider the CHD the worst Cliffhanger ever. For me the reasons are:

1.  Unnecessary buff 
2.  Its desync during SK 38
3.  Not making a big impact as a replacer of the Ultra Crazy version
4.  The SK 37 fiasco

Which version of the Cliffhanger would you like to add? Given how Inui loves bringing back old obstacles as well buffing the Third Stage every tournament (expect 37), the Ultimate Cliffhanger would be great, maybe adding a crazy jump after the 6th ledge.

[zoran]

Would like 25's version of the ultimate to return maybe also with 26's modification to the 4th ledge but still with the raised 3rd ledge and alleged thinner ledges. I'd like to see if it's doable and it would test competitors in a more endurance way rather than luck with a leap.

[dakohosu]

1 and 2 I completely agree on. Sure, we got a few clears on the Ultra in 35 and 36, but the course still remained far undefeated by anyone except Yusuke, so there was no real reason to push other competitors further back to Square 1, especially not on an obstacle which had already been responsible for gatekeeping several competitors from progressing for years. And yeah, the desyncing was heinous, as it robbed both Tada and Jun out of a potential clear in 38. If you're going to motorise an obstacle, make sure it works. Inui should've learned this from the Swap Salmon Ladder fiasco.

Re 3, I'd say the Dimension was probably more controversial because of how unnecessary the buff was as mentioned above. The UCCH only really made the impact that it did because it was connected straight to the VLK at the time, which was positioned as this undefeatable combo collectively.

Re 4, I'm not sure if you know this but the whole "Dimension wasn't working" was a fallacy. They halted it on purpose to facilitate the Live Final going ahead, this is also why they nerfed the VLK as well. They kind of freaked out after Yusuke unexpectedly failed Stage 1 which is why they did this. The Rolling Log was the only obstacle that actually didn't work properly due to the rain. What I don't understand is why they were prepared to nerf the entire course to make sure a Live Final happens, yet they added multiple buffs to all three stages, surely for the purpose of preventing a Final attempt. Yes, Yusuke probably would've cleared the CHD anyway, but also don't forget he's never attempted a Cliffhanger variant in its introductory tournament, so there's a small chance he would've failed it. Had Yusuke made Stage 3, the Dimension would've been working as his S1 fail was the sole reason they nerfed everything, and if he'd failed that obstacle then there would've been no Live Final. Which would've been a complete disaster given that like 50,000 people were waiting for hours at Yokohama. So it seemed a bit counterintuitive.

To be honest the Ultimate Cliffhanger with one Crazy transition would work. I'm much more of a fan of endurance based obstacles rather than overly technical do-or-die moves, which the Ultimate definitely is the former, but given how much of a marketing point the 180 transitions have become, unfortunately having at least one of them is a necessary evil. Having two with moving ledges, that don't even work properly, is just unnecessary and scams skilled competitors out of potential clears, which is always a huge negative against a tournament when that happens in any shape or form.

[xelA197]

I know the imaginary rain problem that forced the CHD to be stationary in 37, as I read on Sasukepedia that Rene said that they nerfed intensely the 3rd stage hoping that at least one could attempt the live final stage.

I want that the crazy jumps are without motorized ledges, as ironically we saw more fails on a stationary ledge than on a moving ledge. A Crazy Ultimate Cliffhanger, with the 26-27 UCH and the 28-31 CCH would be perfect for me. But it seems that Inui loves keeping the same obstacles only introducing motors and motors.

I don't remember how the ledges were working during Yusuke's run in 38, but if he had cleared with desyncronized ledges, he is an absolute monster. And last but not least, another reason for all the hate is Yoshi's slip, but this time it wasn't the obstacle's fault.

[dakohosu]

Nov 2, 2023 12:08:03 GMT -5 xelA197 said:

I know the imaginary rain problem that forced the CHD to be stationary in 37, as I read on Sasukepedia that Rene said that they nerfed intensely the 3rd stage hoping that at least one could attempt the live final stage.

I want that the crazy jumps are without motorized ledges, as ironically we saw more fails on a stationary ledge than on a moving ledge. A Crazy Ultimate Cliffhanger, with the 26-27 UCH and the 28-31 CCH would be perfect for me. But it seems that Inui loves keeping the same obstacles only introducing motors and motors.

I don't remember how the ledges were working during Yusuke's run in 38, but if he had cleared with desyncronized ledges, he is an absolute monster. And last but not least, another reason for all the hate is Yoshi's slip, but this time it wasn't the obstacle's fault.

Yeah, he straight up said this on an old YouTube interview. Again, I don't understand why you'd go to the effort of buffing a lot of the course compared to 36 if you were so anxious for the Live Final to go ahead to the point that you have to un-buff it so that someone would make the Final, because the point of a Stage 3 buff is, well, to prevent a Final attempt.... lol.

Yeah no motorized ledges. Just an UCH with a 180 transition at the end would work fine imo. If it were up to me, I'd just have 25's UCH with the 2cm ledges and the higher 3rd ledge, and no 180 transition at all. Just pure endurance. But as I mentioned, the 180s are so synonymous with Sasuke now that at every festival they host, there's always a mocked up Cliffhanger with a transition there. So taking it out, as much as I'd love to see these luck-based moves go, wouldn't be well received by fans imo.

Funnily enough, they were perfectly in sync for Yusuke's run, but didn't work for Jun or Tada, because as if Inui doesn't play to Yusuke's strengths enough as it is, luck also played to Yusuke's side that tournament as well..... and yeah the disinfectant that caused Yoshi to slip wasn't to do with the Dimension itself, but is just another example of the catastrophic organisation that was quite a common theme in 38. UCH ledges desyncing, the disinfectant, the Dragon Glider bar getting caught on the wire, I could go on.

[xelA197]

In fact there is something strange about SASUKE 37, first you want to introduce the new Cliffhanger Dimension but then you remember that the Final Stage is live and so you retrace your steps, effectively transforming it into a Double Crazy Cliffhanger. And the rain excuse was pretty ridiculous because, if the Planet Bridge works, why the hell wouldn't the Cliffhanger Dimension work?

Now the crazy jumps have become so iconic that I've become a fan of them and I can't imagine a Cliffhanger without a 180 degree jump. I see them as a symbol of the new era of SASUKE, together with the Dragon Glider and the Backstream, so as long as Inui is there it we will always see crazy jumps.

I don't want to be malicious but it seems clear to me that Inui loves Yusuke too much and does nothing to put him in difficulty, indeed in the past I complained about the few changes made from tournament to tournament, unlike the Golden Era in which in almost every tournament a new obstacle or drastic time reductions arose

The thing that made me mad about SASUKE 38 was hiding all the mistakes by not showing any replays, or in Yoshi's case, changing the camera angle so as not to show the wet ledge, and to top it off, Yusuke's ultra obvious victory (even though at the time I hadn't seen any spoilers or the intro so I had little suspense)

[dakohosu]

Nov 2, 2023 14:25:05 GMT -5 xelA197 said:

In fact there is something strange about SASUKE 37, first you want to introduce the new Cliffhanger Dimension but then you remember that the Final Stage is live and so you retrace your steps, effectively transforming it into a Double Crazy Cliffhanger. And the rain excuse was pretty ridiculous because, if the Planet Bridge works, why the hell wouldn't the Cliffhanger Dimension work?

Now the crazy jumps have become so iconic that I've become a fan of them and I can't imagine a Cliffhanger without a 180 degree jump. I see them as a symbol of the new era of SASUKE, together with the Dragon Glider and the Backstream, so as long as Inui is there it we will always see crazy jumps.

I don't want to be malicious but it seems clear to me that Inui loves Yusuke too much and does nothing to put him in difficulty, indeed in the past I complained about the few changes made from tournament to tournament, unlike the Golden Era in which in almost every tournament a new obstacle or drastic time reductions arose

The thing that made me mad about SASUKE 38 was hiding all the mistakes by not showing any replays, or in Yusuke's case, changing the camera angle so as not to show the wet ledge, and to top it off, Yusuke's ultra obvious victory (even though at the time I hadn't seen any spoilers or the intro so I had little suspense)

Yeah, I mean it was literally working during the 3rd Stage introduction video which was filmed shortly before the first run.

Uh, that makes me sad, because I don't like the Dragon Glider or Backstream either. The former's had too many technical issues and is getting incredibly stale at this point, but has basically become the Cliffhanger of Stage 1 as it's the only legitimately difficult obstacle. The Backstream I just think is pointless now. It's only properly stopped one competitor from clearing (Hioki in 40) in the last six tournaments, and as a time waster it doesn't work given how lenient the recent Stage 2 time limits have been. I'm not against a swimming obstacle at all, just one that's more failable and can actually stop competitors in their tracks. Water Walls would work fine imo. Dragon Glider I don't have an issue with assuming it works (I mean there are more pressing things to change on Stage 1), but alas.....

Yeah I don't really know what Inui's game plan is with Yusuke. Does he want him to continuously win time after time? Because the constant additions of grip obstacles to Stage 3 and now a rock wall to Stage 4 seems to suggest so. I'm not sure why, given that the strongest competitor has always been targeted after their win or an incredible run, including by Inui himself where he actively targeted Ryo in 31 after his Final run. I also got the impression that they were trying to prevent Nagano from winning again in Shin because they were always very reactive in terms of changes to when he did well, like reducing the Final time limit on the fly for 23, and not giving him a rerun in 21, etc. to avoid a Michael Schumacher F1 situation where he just kept winning and winning resulting in boredom. Funnily enough, this is the same situation we're in with Yusuke and Inui's doing nothing about it. And unlike Nagano who was already nearing 40 during Shin, Yusuke is 31, and in an era where competitors over 40 are still holding up extremely well, we could easily be in for this monotony for another 10+ years.

[xelA197]

When I saw SASUKE 35 live i fell istantly in love with the Dragon Glider; if they are finally able to fix all the problems (after 6 tournaments it's very worrying that it still costantlty malfunctions) it will became a great obstacle, seeing a Cliffhanger style obstacle in Stage 1 is great for me because it gives you a lot of suspense before anyone could attempt the DG because it is the "all or nothing" moment, and after someone clear it, the race against the time just begins (unless you're Jun, Yoshi or Hayate).

On the other hand I am not the biggest fan of the Backstream: the obstacle is incredibly old and boring and almost nobody struggled on it after the 29's fiasco. If buffed it became nearly impossible, if nerfed it became a child's pool; it's time to go dear Backstream. I would like the Metal Spin's return so finally also the Second Stage will have his own Cliffhanger style obstacle. (Yes, I'm a nostalgic fan, old obstacles can be brutal still today, just see Rolling Hill and Tackle). But I can't see Inui removing the Backstream, probably his most iconic obstacle. If shockingly removed, Water Walls seems a more realistic replacement.