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Post by dakohosu on Oct 9, 2021 14:26:57 GMT -5
Who do you think had the best Cliffhanger clear of all time?
Unpopular opinion but I'd say for me it's a tie between Hitoshi Kanno in Sasuke 31 and Shinji Kobayashi in Sasuke 11.
The former being one of the most emotional obstacle clears of all time, with him having failed it for the past 3 years in a row. What made it so great was how his reaction showed what it meant to him to be able to get through it fourth time lucky; even to the point that despite him failing the very next obstacle he had a smile on his face as he knew it was due to him running out of strength rather than poor technique/bad luck.
The latter being because he had by far the best Cliffhanger attempt of the tournament despite being a complete rookie/unknown (even Nagano showed signs of struggling that tournament) and just walked on to the platform with a straight face as though he knew it was going to be no problem for him. Even to the point that the announcer erupted in shock that he cleared it so easily.
I didn't pick Takeda in 21 purely because I don't think the Shin-Cliffhanger was actually that hard, rather so few people reached it until then due to the first two stages being brutal, while Yusuke in 29 for me was soured by 1) the fact that he didn't deserve to be in Stage 3 in the first place as he crawled under the last wall in Stage 2 and 2) how he rested for 5 minutes due to that timer rule. Then there's obviously you know who in 32 but I don't think I need to explain why he's not been considered.
I would also technically say Yoshiyuki Yamamoto in 38 was among my favorites but I don't know if that counts given that he technically didn't clear the obstacle, but he definitely would have had it not been for Inui being Inui....
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zoran
Jessie Graff
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Post by zoran on Oct 9, 2021 16:11:08 GMT -5
Shinya Kishomoto's in 30. Kishimoto basically being one of the worst competitor's on the show and then coming third in 30 is the kind of surprises the show needs. He's like a college student who fails almost all tests and then gets an A mark on one.
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Post by dakohosu on Oct 9, 2021 17:03:32 GMT -5
I was actually expecting him to reach the Final that tournament. He's such a typical Sasuke competitor archetype in that he basically only trained Stage 3, resulting in him constantly failing Stage 1 due to lack of practice on more athletics/agility/parkour-based skills rather than just upper body strength. It's a shame because similar to Ryo, once he gets past Stage 1 he had the potential to go very far, so once I saw him clear in Sasuke 30 I expected him to demolish the rest of the course. Hence I was actually shocked that he even failed the Vertical Limit as I know he'd practiced it relentlessly.
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Post by Ninja Relaxer on Oct 9, 2021 21:11:38 GMT -5
Morimoto in 29 and Ryo & Kawaguchi in 30, because those were the first three clears on the Crazy Cliffhanger*. I really wanted to see that thing beaten after it took out so many competitors in 28.
* Edit: Oh, Shinya was actually the third clear and Ryo was fourth. But Ryo & Kawaguchi's clears are a lot more memorable to me because they went on to the Final Stage.
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Post by subtleagent on Oct 10, 2021 0:36:04 GMT -5
Kong in 23. For the last 5 tournaments the Shin-Cliffhanger was revered as the most feared obstacle of the stage with only 4 out of 10 clears at that point, but then Kong; fresh off of 3 Cliffhanger fails, 2 from easy eras, and 4 straight Stage 1 fails, just reaches across it and destroys the rest of Stage 3 (yeah he failed the Gliding Ring, but that's only because he rushed the dismount which he cleared in 24), and then everyone after him in 23 and 24 (except Levi LOL) ends up destroying it as if it were nothing.
Though yeah I do agree on the SCH being overhyped, 23 and 24's results on it backing that up. Granted I would honestly say it's the only hard Stage 3 obstacle in Shin-SASUKE's Third Stage aside from the Spider Flip (though by the time 24 rolled around most everyone figured out how to do both of them except sadly Takeda). I also love how Levi became basically the mascot for Americans on SASUKE based on his 20 run and then in the very next tournament Takeda and Nagano beat it, then in the next three tournaments everyone beats it on their first or second attempt on it EXCEPT Levi.
Granted no one who beat it was American, but still. It's just further testament to why he was so overrated. I honestly liken Levi's run in 20 to Kawaguchi's in 35 where they're hyped as the second best of their respective competitor pools based SOLELY on those runs and then they're beaten by a good chunk of the competitive field while their performances worsen.
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Post by dakohosu on Oct 10, 2021 5:05:53 GMT -5
I've very rarely been happy to see someone fail on the course but Levi definitely comes to mind. Not because I wanted him to do badly but after Sasuke 20 he became so smug and arrogant, like in his Sasuke 21 Stage 2 interview saying 'I don't want to say it's easy but....' then failing the Salmon Ladder, which I found quite funny. I also found him to be overrated purely because he was given so much clout for always putting down the fastest times on Stages 1 and 2, but what's the point if he sucked at Stage 3? He was basically a way less successful and consistent version of Jun Sato yet the latter gets nowhere near as much credit and was far less arrogant.
Anyway, yeah Kong's clear was incredible especially given that it consolidated his best ever performance after 2 years of declining which barely anyone bar Asaoka can say they've achieved, and Kong's case was on a way harder course. And yeah Kawaguchi's clear was pretty awesome as well; the only thing that soured it for me was how he was given loads of screen time on the Navi and fluff pieces during the tournament thus kind of spoiling that he was going to do well. It would've been further up my list had he basically just come out of nowhere and unexpectedly cleared the obstacle, again an example of how TBS can't seem to execute surprise results properly.
Another mention for me would be Koji Hashimoto's clear in 24; how he basically just jumped to the last ledge of the SCH without stopping to swing. One of the most underrated and frequently forgotten about competitors imo, mainly because his tenure was so short.
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Post by subtleagent on Oct 10, 2021 22:33:28 GMT -5
I agree on that. Levi did definitely come off as incredibly arrogant after 20. I can't think of many controversies he caused aside from that sus Dome Steps debacle in 25 (I just hope he didn't Yamada or Drew his way into that rerun, though the number change was incredibly unorthodox). I think that arrogance really affected his subsequent performances, not quite to a Yamada or Kanno level, but still. And then he basically faded out of the scene after 26.
But yeah, it is always awesome when someone comes back from a slump and Kong for me is probably second to Yuuji in that regard. Speaking of Shin-Cliffhanger attempts I also would nominate Naoya Tajima. He utterly destroyed Stage 3 (he would have cleared had he taken the Gliding Ring off the stopper and his Spider Flip clear was insane. While this is more based on his entire run, his Cliffhanger clear was pretty sick too, it was like it wasn't even there.
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Post by dakohosu on Oct 11, 2021 3:58:46 GMT -5
I agree on that. Levi did definitely come off as incredibly arrogant after 20. I can't think of many controversies he caused aside from that sus Dome Steps debacle in 25 (I just hope he didn't Yamada or Drew his way into that rerun, though the number change was incredibly unorthodox). I think that arrogance really affected his subsequent performances, not quite to a Yamada or Kanno level, but still. And then he basically faded out of the scene after 26. But yeah, it is always awesome when someone comes back from a slump and Kong for me is probably second to Yuuji in that regard. Speaking of Shin-Cliffhanger attempts I also would nominate Naoya Tajima. He utterly destroyed Stage 3 (he would have cleared had he taken the Gliding Ring off the stopper and his Spider Flip clear was insane. While this is more based on his entire run, his Cliffhanger clear was pretty sick too, it was like it wasn't even there. Not sure if you know this but in his last ever appearance on ANW he actually failed the Quad Steps in the qualifiers (i.e. the very VERY first obstacle). Speaking of Yuuji, I also think his clear in 36 was one to give a shout out to, purely because he'd failed the original Crazy and hadn't attempted Stage 3 for 6 years since then, then just comes and destroys the harder Ultra version as though it was nothing. Ryo's clear in 36 was also pretty awesome as well; doing a one hand save on a transition like that is a testament to his awesome grip strength given that so many competitors have landed both hands on the ledge and still often fail to hold themselves up.
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Post by subtleagent on Oct 11, 2021 11:00:58 GMT -5
I was more referring to exclusively SASUKE but I'm aware of his ANW 4 flub, not a very good way to end your career (then again his Slider Drop fail wasn't much to write home about either).
Ryo and Yuuji's Cliffhangers in 36 were definitely not only amazing given the aforementioned circumstances, but also a breath of fresh air given by that point the Cliffhanger was becoming too dominant and seeing those two crush it broke the monotony (Yuuji beating the Vertical Limit in 37 was a great follow up too).
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Post by dakohosu on Oct 11, 2021 12:43:20 GMT -5
Yeah I know but it just adds to the humour of him being so arrogant and cocky and then going out on the first obstacle. Speaking of 25, Brian Orosco wasn’t much better in terms of getting unnecessary hype. Dude reached Stage 3 once, does the worst out of any of the attempts, then comes back and gets dubbed the American Makoto Nagano, and then does the worst out of all the Stage 3 attempts again! That’s why I always preferred David Campbell, because it actually felt as though he could go all the way (I mean he did Kanzen on Sasuke Vietnam). I also thought you know who was criminally underrated by comparison given his ability but we won’t go there.....
And yeah I agree. That said, the annoying thing about 36’s and to a lesser degree 35’s results was that it paved the way for the Cliffhanger Dimension. Taking the two tournaments combined the clear rate on the UCCH was 58% which is really not that high in the grand scheme of things and Inui saw that as an excuse to make the Cliffhanger even harder despite there being no Total Victory. Sure, leave the entire rest of the stage that had become painfully stale and boring and instead modify the only obstacle that didn’t need to be modified. It’s almost as though he wants 90% of all Stage 3 fails to be Cliffhanger-related not realising it basically ruins the suspense in what should be the most exciting stage. At this point I can only assume he wants this to be the case?
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Post by subtleagent on Oct 11, 2021 14:02:12 GMT -5
I didn't mind Orosco as much, mainly because he actually knew to leave the theatrics BEFORE his runs rather than during them, and he just seemed a lot more humble and more fun personality-wise. But yeah, the amount of hype he got post-25 was dumb especially since he gets outshined by 3 Americans, doesn't even qualify for 27 and then fails qualifying thrice before retirement (he mentioned in an interview his interest in ANW was waning to the point where he was fighting the course similar to Yuuji from 31 ~ 33). Granted I do give him props for going from basically timing out in 23 to clearing Stage 2 in 25 and 26, but yeah he was essentially dead in the water in Stage 3 (I think Ryan Stratis summed it up perfectly in ANW 3 when he said "he's a great guy, but upper body stuff he seems to have trouble with").
The Dimension was just entirely unnecessary to the point where even the producers realized this when they halted the ledges JUST because Morimoto failed Stage 1 in 37 (but you know Inui, he was gonna show off his fully functional CHD come hell or high water). At this point it's clear Inui's modeling the course entirely on Morimoto (in the most counterproductive matter since I personally feel Morimoto never attempting a Cliffhanger in an introductory tournament won't make that much of a difference considering he'll just train his butt off for it whether he fails it or not and likely ace it the following tournament). Maybe Inui would have the budget to replace the obstacles if he didn't blow so much just to buff the Cliffhanger. And now he wants to make the thing intentionally move out of sync and base the obstacle entirely on luck? That's totally not a ratings disaster waiting to happen.
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Post by dakohosu on Oct 11, 2021 14:23:22 GMT -5
Yeah I mean the guy was like 85kg from what I remember. That’s even heavy for an American competitor so I’m not surprised upper body strength wasn’t his forte. A lot of the parkour athletes seem to struggle with Stage 3 which is surprising as you need a lot of grip strength to be able to catch ledges and bars etc. I suppose they have good technique but not so great endurance.
And yeah I’m a bit worried about Inui’s approach given that the last time a course was centred around trying to catch out a competitor who had no obvious weaknesses we got Sasuke 19. And this scenario is arguably even worse given that Morimoto is more ahead of the rest of the field than Nagano ever was. In trying to take down Yusuke they’ll take down the entire rest of the field as well, resulting in another Sasuke 19, which granted had great shock value but the fail after fail started to get a tad boring and no doubt wasn’t good for the ratings. I’ve been thinking about this for months and I honestly can’t think of any type of obstacle that would take Yusuke out and not 95% of the other competitors.
And yeah I heard that too. It’s honestly bulls**t given that competitors only get 30 seconds rest between obstacles, which means that some competitors will be forced to start the Cliffhanger at completely the wrong time while others will get lucky. It’ll basically be a Jun Sato Sasuke 38 situation except done on purpose to every competitor.
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Post by PsychoDelusion on Oct 14, 2021 9:08:42 GMT -5
Travis Allen Schroeder clearing the OG Cliffhanger with brute force. Nothing will beat that in my book.
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Post by wrestlingfan55 on Oct 16, 2021 12:32:30 GMT -5
Nagano's CH clear in 9 was very impressive. He was the first to attempt that version of Stage 3. The fact he cleared the new transition from ledges 2-3 showed he was unlike any other. He also made the new Rumbling Dice and Globe Grasp look easy whilst others struggled.
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Post by subtleagent on Oct 17, 2021 2:32:45 GMT -5
To think Nagano would have beaten TWO Cliffhangers in introductory tournaments had he taken that rerun in 18.
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zoran
Jessie Graff
Posts: 1,015
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Post by zoran on Oct 17, 2021 3:57:40 GMT -5
To think Nagano would have beaten TWO Cliffhangers in introductory tournaments had he taken that rerun in 18. It's unlikely he would have given 1.His stamina would be depleted 2. Sasuke 18 was a winter tournament which he doesn't perform well in 3. His technique on his first attempt wasn't that great, for example look at how weak his "sways" were on the first ledge.
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Post by dakohosu on Oct 17, 2021 4:30:46 GMT -5
I'm honestly surprised that Nagano had to disqualify himself. Maybe this is because we live in an era of the show where competitors get disqualified for far more innocent things, but he blatantly went out of bounds by touching the top of the apparatus which the announcers were seemingly ok to let slide. Good on him for DQ-ing himself though; Yamada would've just tried to get away with it or demand another run when it wasn't warranted. That said, a part of me thinks that the main reason he didn't take a re-run was that he'd already won in the tournament before so he had nothing to prove - I imagine it would've been different had the renewal happened due to another competitor winning, hypothetically.
Either way, idk if he would've cleared the Shin-Cliffhanger had he taken the rerun. The stamina depletion I'm not sure about given that they possibly would've given him the re-run after Shunsuke and Kongu's (similar to Yamada in 12) so he would've had enough time to recover, besides the first three obstacles were piss easy anyway. Also, I just rewatched his attempt on the obstacle and his right hand got far enough on to the last ledge that his left hand could've made it as well, but he obvs backed out last minute.
The scary thing though is had he completed the Shin-Cliffhanger he would've likely achieved Kanzenseiha (assuming the Gliding Ring worked, which I think it would've done as I honestly believe they just used a bad track for 21 - it's angled downwards so its SUPPOSED to slide). Imagine how much money and time they spent on a renewal to 'fail all 100 competitors' just to see the one man they wanted to see fail early win it all again.....
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zoran
Jessie Graff
Posts: 1,015
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Post by zoran on Oct 17, 2021 6:54:26 GMT -5
I'm honestly surprised that Nagano had to disqualify himself. Maybe this is because we live in an era of the show where competitors get disqualified for far more innocent things, but he blatantly went out of bounds by touching the top of the apparatus which the announcers were seemingly ok to let slide. Good on him for DQ-ing himself though; Yamada would've just tried to get away with it or demand another run when it wasn't warranted. That said, a part of me thinks that the main reason he didn't take a re-run was that he'd already won in the tournament before so he had nothing to prove - I imagine it would've been different had the renewal happened due to another competitor winning, hypothetically. Either way, idk if he would've cleared the Shin-Cliffhanger had he taken the rerun. The stamina depletion I'm not sure about given that they possibly would've given him the re-run after Shunsuke and Kongu's (similar to Yamada in 12) so he would've had enough time to recover, besides the first three obstacles were piss easy anyway. Also, I just rewatched his attempt on the obstacle and his right hand got far enough on to the last ledge that his left hand could've made it as well, but he obvs backed out last minute. The scary thing though is had he completed the Shin-Cliffhanger he would've likely achieved Kanzenseiha (assuming the Gliding Ring worked, which I think it would've done as I honestly believe they just used a bad track for 21 - it's angled downwards so its SUPPOSED to slide). Imagine how much money and time they spent on a renewal to 'fail all 100 competitors' just to see the one man they wanted to see fail early win it all again..... 18's tower is speculated to have been the 3 rope tower and that would have probably been too janky and difficult for him to complete especially in winter.
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Post by dakohosu on Oct 17, 2021 9:45:02 GMT -5
Wasn't that just an animation?
I don't know why they would've changed it from 18-22.
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Post by subtleagent on Oct 17, 2021 11:10:11 GMT -5
It was changed because the of the three ropes being positioned in such a way that it had way too many technical problems (i.e. it being too easy to pull a Kong in 24 moment) as well as the nightmare of pulling the ropes apart should they get tangled. As cool as that Final looked, there was no feasible way to use it so it was scrapped.
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