|
Post by dakohosu on Jul 8, 2021 15:48:39 GMT -5
Who do you think got the most unfairly high or unfairly low numbers in their careers?
Ideally aside from the obvious (e.g. Kawaguchi, Darvish etc.)
|
|
|
Post by m4tt3r0x on Jul 8, 2021 19:04:59 GMT -5
97 to Yamada in 38. He just was clinging on to Nagano's coat tails.
Making any seasoned guy take number 1 like Kanno in 27 is pretty lame imo. It's entertaining, but it puts them at a big disadvantage if you ask me.
Akiyama at 20 in Sasuke 20 and Shingo at 31 in 22 when they already were struggling to get their acts together was a bit much.
I always thought both Kanno and Asa got stiffed a bit during Post M9, but not since Kanno started declining. Now I think Sasuke Sensei has been getting lower numbers than deserved.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on Jul 8, 2021 22:08:36 GMT -5
Kanno getting 99 in 24, mostly because his final stage performance was rubbish and not only was Yuuji's in 22 was better, but he and 4 others ended up doing better than him in the following tournament. I think #98 would've made more sense given only Nagano and Yuuji had made that Final. At least he was reasonably demoted in 25 (lottery I know, but still) and 26 unlike Kawaguchi from 32 onward.
Yamada getting 99 in 14 ~ 16 and 100 in 17. IDK why they kept giving him numbers in the 90s when he was failing Stage 1 constantly. 80s I understood, but 90s was a bit much.
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Jul 9, 2021 4:49:43 GMT -5
Yeah I 100% agree on Yamada in 38. But for me, it was mainly because it was a massive immersion breaker. The 90s should be the part of Stage 1 where you cling on to your seat at every run because these guys are the most likely to clear/if they fail it comes across as most shocking. Having Yamada, who's unbearably slow and who's never going to make it past Stage 1, in the middle of this excitement really didn't sit well with me. Even Nagano, despite being 48, had a decent shot of clearing so it adhered to that 'will he clear' theme. And yeah I don't get why they basically randomized the numbers in 22 and 27 given that it resulted in the edit being a messy mish-mash of digests run out of order.
Kanno I think deserved #99 given that he was only one of two finalists from 23, the second being Nagano who wore #100. And yeah Yamada never deserved such high numbers, especially #100 in 17. He only got the number because he threatened retirement but given that even then was like the fifth time, so clearly he didn't mean it.
Some I would probably add that were too high: - Nagasaki getting #98 in Sasuke 33 - bit high for an early Stage 3 fail - Daisuke Miyazaki getting #99 in Sasuke 22, given that his Stage 3 attempt was rubbish, and also Takeda went further than him and got #92. - #90-95 in Sasuke 28. Seriously, who were these people? - Daisuke Nakata getting #96 in Sasuke 17 - Sam Kendricks getting #95 in Sasuke 37
Too low: - Hiroyuki Asaoka: the guy consistently got really low numbers for some reason, such as getting #58 in Sasuke 11 after making Stage 3 and #80 after reaching the Final Stage. - Naoki Iketani who kept getting numbers like #61 and #81 despite being a Stage 3 regular
|
|
|
Post by darthvaderlim on Jul 10, 2021 0:15:29 GMT -5
Takeda in 22, wore #92 instead of #99. Daisuke Miyazaki wearing #98 and #99 in Sasuke 20 and 22. Yuuji wearing #88 in Sasuke 28
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Jul 10, 2021 9:46:57 GMT -5
I think celebrities getting high numbers in their first attempts are sort of fair enough because they do drive the ratings and so it makes sense to put them towards the back end of the running order to make sure that viewers tune in for longer; what I don’t agree with is when they fail Stage 1 constantly but still get those higher numbers.
Darvish and Miyazaki at least somewhat made sense given that both did relatively well (though I still think #99 should be reserved for the second best/breakout run) but giving guys like Hiromichi Sato #99 when he failed Stage 1 beforehand just didn’t sit well.
Mind you, Sasuke 19 and 22 were made a big deal out of because they were the first tournaments where the last ten numbers all failed, but what people don’t realise is that the main reason for that was because for some reason they filled up those last ten numbers mainly with celebrities as opposed to competitors actually likely to clear. Like in 22 only Takeda and Nagano were in the last 10 to run, the rest being (mainly noob) celebrities.
|
|
|
Post by Ninja Relaxer on Jul 10, 2021 10:14:36 GMT -5
Yeah, Urushihara wearing #88 in Sasuke 28 was beyond strange. He'd just had his SECOND kanzenseiha. He was without a doubt the top competitor at the time. But I've heard he doesn't like the pressure of wearing #100, so I assume the lower number was by his own request.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on Jul 10, 2021 10:27:51 GMT -5
#88 is a sacred number in Japan and the tournament was meant to be in the honor of the "final" tournament of the All-Stars (which was stupid, but we all know that), so that's why Yuuji got it. Then again 28's competitive field was mainly celebs and joke competitors so aside from the All-Stars (which tbh I feel like the force retirement BS impacted their mindset and caused them to fail early) the last 10 there wasn't really noteworthy competitor-wise. And let's not forget how they spoiled the entire tournament in the Navi by including Asa in the Shin Sedai (even to this day, I would argue he wasn't worthy of being a Shin Sedai, his record prior to his membership was nothing special and he was pretty much guaranteed to fail the Cliffhanger) and demoting Hashimoto.
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Jul 10, 2021 10:27:53 GMT -5
#88 is actually a sacred number in Japan which is apparently why he got it. Besides given that this was meant to be the final tournament for the All-Stars it was kinda fair that they got the last 5 numbers.
What wasn’t excusable was #90-95; like who the f*** were these guys? We had a couple of Americans who were complete nobodies and failed the Rolling Escargot (seriously, why not just invite David Campbell etc?) and a bunch of Olympic athletes. Most got cut anyway.
Loads of other numbers that tournament were stupid as well like Hashimoto getting #40 etc, not to mention Okuyama and Kongu not even getting a number because they weren’t even frickin invited!
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on Jul 10, 2021 10:37:52 GMT -5
19 had a really odd line up too. Kong got #84 despite making Stage 3 the tournament prior (in a renewal no less), Yamada still got #91 even though he was 5 stage 1 fails deep by this point, Hiromichi got #99 (which I would argue should have been Kong's) despite failing Stage 1, and Paul Terek got #98 even though Nagasaki reached Stage 3 on a harder course (and the final in the same tournament as Terek) yet he gets #97.
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Jul 10, 2021 10:52:22 GMT -5
You know when half of the last 10 numbers get cut that you’ve got a massive problem with your line-up (Sasuke 19).
Speaking of odd line-ups, Sasuke 17 comes to mind as well. Bunpei got #81 despite going the furthest in the previous tournament, while Daisuke Nakata got #96 despite not having made Stage 3 in three years. Also again half of the last ten numbers were completely cut and some we don’t even know who they were; like who even got #97 that tournament? Even Yamamoto getting #98 was a bit unwarranted given his flop in the previous tournament. Then there’s the inevitable Yamada getting #100 (on the one tournament that Nagano Kanzens as well), due to him claiming retirement which everyone knew was bulls**t anyway.
|
|
zoran
Jessie Graff
Posts: 1,030
Member is Online
|
Post by zoran on Jul 10, 2021 10:54:57 GMT -5
19 had a really odd line up too. Kong got #84 despite making Stage 3 the tournament prior (in a renewal no less), Yamada still got #91 even though he was 5 stage 1 fails deep by this point, Hiromichi got #99 (which I would argue should have been Kong's) despite failing Stage 1, and Paul Terek got #98 even though Nagasaki reached Stage 3 on a harder course (and the final in the same tournament as Terek) yet he gets #97. Don't know why Takahashi was low. Yamada got 91 due to his reputation and image of the show aswell as his Sasuke 18 run being fantastic. Hiromichi got 99 because hes a big celeb used to boost ratings aswell as his success on Viking. Terek got 98 in order to court the growing American audience on G4.
|
|
|
Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Jul 11, 2021 4:05:27 GMT -5
No such thing as unfair numbers. It's not entirely based off skill. Ratings are a factor, especially if you guys want more SASUKE in the future. If the suckier yet more popular competitors competed earlier, I guarantee there'd be a dip in ratings in the later Stages. There typically are anyways.
The All Stars were high consistently because not only were they the top dogs, but they were the faces of the show. They were the ones everyone was waiting to see because that's who was put in the spotlight. With no All Stars, new people have to come in to be recognizable and get people to still watch it, and honestly not many people in modern SASUKE do that besides a couple. That's why a lot of celebs are in the 70s or higher.
It's a formula that works for the Japanese audiences: Hype up popular people, hold them off until 2 hours into the broadcast, and by then hope that people are invested enough to stick around. Not all viewers are like us who are here to see Yusuke or Tada or Yoshiyuki or the actually skilled competitors; some people just want to see who they like and then call it a day.
If you have a problem with that, I totally get it. But at the same time, if you're not from Japan, you're not who SASUKE is directed towards. We don't affect the ratings, and our streams don't determine whether or not SASUKE gets another tournament in the future. We just gotta deal with what we have, even if we don't like it.
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Jul 11, 2021 11:21:07 GMT -5
No such thing as unfair numbers. It's not entirely based off skill. Ratings are a factor, especially if you guys want more SASUKE in the future. If the suckier yet more popular competitors competed earlier, I guarantee there'd be a dip in ratings in the later Stages. There typically are anyways. The All Stars were high consistently because not only were they the top dogs, but they were the faces of the show. They were the ones everyone was waiting to see because that's who was put in the spotlight. With no All Stars, new people have to come in to be recognizable and get people to still watch it, and honestly not many people in modern SASUKE do that besides a couple. That's why a lot of celebs are in the 70s or higher. It's a formula that works for the Japanese audiences: Hype up popular people, hold them off until 2 hours into the broadcast, and by then hope that people are invested enough to stick around. Not all viewers are like us who are here to see Yusuke or Tada or Yoshiyuki or the actually skilled competitors; some people just want to see who they like and then call it a day. If you have a problem with that, I totally get it. But at the same time, if you're not from Japan, you're not who SASUKE is directed towards. We don't affect the ratings, and our streams don't determine whether or not SASUKE gets another tournament in the future. We just gotta deal with what we have, even if we don't like it. I sort of both agree and disagree with this statement. Everything you're saying is true, and it's mainly why I didn't include guys like Darvish, Snow Man, ABC-Z etc. in my list. Many hardcore fans (of which most are on this forum) tend to judge 'fairness' of numbers purely by the degree to which their past performances warrant the number they get, but I fully realise that from a pragmatic ratings point of view, using only such a factor to determine the running order just won't work. Celebrities generally aren't skilled enough for the numbers they get (and are hence constantly called 'overhyped' by non-Japanese fans who can't relate to how big a deal they are in Japan), but given their status outside of Sasuke and the large increase in viewers that their participation will bring, I wouldn't classify their high numbers as being 'unfair'. Personally I think their contribution to the show and partial hand in keeping it alive all these years gives them the right to wear whatever numbers they want. I even say this as someone who finds some of these guys' antics on the sidelines quite grating at times. However, I do fundamentally disagree that unfair numbers don't exist. We obviously don't know the degree to which the number selection is determined by the competitors themselves given their buddy-buddy nature with Inui (i.e. there were rumours that Tada actually asked for a low number in Sasuke 37 to avoid pressure, as well as Yuuji's situation with wearing #100). But there have been numerous examples of competitors blatantly deserving of a higher or lower number than they were assigned. Shingo never getting #99 or #100 (not counting Sasuke 32) despite probably being the strongest competitor of the early post-Akiyama era, Takeda never getting #99, Asaoka never getting anything in the #90s until his last tournament which got all cut, etc. Sometimes I just feel that the numbers are poorly thought out and the only important thing seems to be making sure Nagano or Yusuke get #100 and some celebrities are in the latter half of the running order. The last 10 runs should be the climax of suspense for Stage 1, and as I mentioned in some tournaments half of those last 10 runs get completely cut; if they were cut then clearly they're not a celebrity (not one worth showing at least) or an All-Star/veteran of the show so they're clearly a nobody who was given a number that should be reserved for the nail-biting runs to consolidate the gradual rise in suspense over the course of the stage. It can be a massive immersion breaker at times.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on Jul 11, 2021 15:11:18 GMT -5
I think in Asaoka's case he was meant to be like the Hioki of sorts initially, as in he was expected to be the first clear (given he had a Stage 3 appearance despite being three Jump Hang failures deep). Of course this never was quite the case since the first clears were the following:
Nakata (#40) in 10 Kinnikun (#41) in 11 Koji Yamada (#1) in 12
But then after 12 he made the final so they still had to boost him a bit since no one who makes it to the Final Stage ever gets a number below the 90s in the next tournament (but he skipped 13 so I suspect that's why he was given 80 instead with the return of the more prolific Yamada, the olympians Jovtchev and the Hamm twins and of course the All-Stars getting their usual spots). Granted there was the lottery in 25, but that doesn't really count, and there was whatever the f*** 28's numbering system was. There was also Hikaru Tanaka getting #84 in SASUKE 3, but that was the first era where track records didn't mean much so whatever.
And by 14 Asaoka either was losing interest of just didn't have time to train anymore (I honestly suspect it's the latter given his career changes, keep in mind he did take 6 months off to train for 12 and not everyone can do that frequently. Just ask James McGrath, he went through quite a few jobs just for that and it's not like you can just go back to your job all the time) and as evident by the fact that he was digested in that tournament and cut in 15 I would guess said career change just wasn't screenworthy enough for TBS to really dive into (plus in 14 he got a double digest, which anyone who gets a double digest not only doesn't make it to the Final Stage, but will very likely do worse than they did in the previous tournament. The only exception to this I can think of was Kanno in 31 where he finally beat the Crazy Cliffhanger, but he still failed the Vertical Limit which was kind of a given because of the aforementioned double fast-forward).
As for Tada, him getting lower than Kawaguchi in 38 was just bulls**t all around (I get Yamada for being an All-Star and Nagano, Yuuji and Morimoto for being the champs, but not Kawaguchi). First off because Tada's Final Stage attempt was arguably more impressive since it was on a harder tower AND in the rain whilst Kawaguchi spent 23 seconds on the Spider Climb on dry surface and failed Stage 1 in the previous tournament. Second, Tada gets a double digest (which spoiled that he wasn't going back to the Final) while Kawaguchi gets a friggin history reel only to once more biff the wall.
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Jul 12, 2021 10:24:31 GMT -5
As for Tada, him getting lower than Kawaguchi in 38 was just bulls**t all around (I get Yamada for being an All-Star and Nagano, Yuuji and Morimoto for being the champs, but not Kawaguchi). First off because Tada's Final Stage attempt was arguably more impressive since it was on a harder tower AND in the rain whilst Kawaguchi spent 23 seconds on the Spider Climb on dry surface and failed Stage 1 in the previous tournament. Second, Tada gets a double digest (which spoiled that he wasn't going back to the Final) while Kawaguchi gets a friggin history reel only to once more biff the wall. I agree this was bulls**t but hardly surprising. Kawaguchi's fundamentally been one of the main faces of the show aside from Morimoto; he's competed in multiple international competitions and was even captain of Sasuke Indonesia (don't know why it wasn't Yusuke but yeah), as well as Kunoichi as Ayano Oshima's coach. There's also the huge affiliation with Per-Adra as well which resulted in him getting even more bias from Sasuke 35 onwards. All these reasons contribute to why he gets such high numbers, just as Shingo and Takeda did back in the day; while not the best competitor, he is among the most well-known, so it makes sense to group him towards the end of the running order to keep fans 'in suspense'. Hence even though he's clearly entered some sort of decline, I'd be pretty surprised if he gets anything lower than #90 in the next tournament. That said, Ryo occupied a similar role in Sasuke a few years back (competing multiple times for Team Japan, etc.) and then started to get digested more and more as his performances just tanked. Tada I think didn't want #99 hence why Yuuji got it instead (as well as ensuring the last three numbers represented the three most recent champions) but there had to be some kind of trade-off given that he made the Final Stage last time out, like they couldn't give him a number in the #40s or #50s as before. And r/e the digesting, admittedly I'm someone who really isn't that bothered who gets digested and who doesn't given that a clear is a clear and a fail is a fail in the grand scheme of things; there's really not that much else to see other than the result itself. But you're right, his double digest, in addition to being a bit of a weird choice given his recent breakout run, did spoil that he wasn't going to make the Final. Had it been Jun Sato then I wouldn't have cared as his result was far more predictable anyway, but Tada could've had a real shot at making the Final and the digesting just ruined that suspense.
|
|
|
Post by Ninja Relaxer on Jul 12, 2021 11:31:59 GMT -5
Digesting Tada was just inept. He had everyone's attention this tournament, and showing his runs would have maintained the suspense well into Stage 3. But for some reason the producers decided to squander that opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by dakohosu on Jul 12, 2021 12:12:02 GMT -5
Isa's Stage 2 run as well - probably the only genuinely nail-biting run of the tournament (Tada's Stage 3 run would've been had he not been digested as mentioned above) and most of it was cut.
Genuinely didn't understand some editing choices of that tournament, anyway.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on Jul 13, 2021 1:26:55 GMT -5
I think the logic behind 38 was that we already had a crap ton of celebrities that we had to wade through (and some of them got to the Dragon Glider with barely any time left) so they had to sacrifice the less screenworthy like Isa, Nagasaki, Kanno, and the Morimoto Sedai (which I still am baffled is even a thing considering Inui finds them expendable).
Obviously I don't agree with 38's editing because once Sato failed the Cliffhanger (though I'd argue possibly once Yoshiyuki did given grip strength isn't quite Sato's strong suit) it became painfully obvious that Morimoto was going to win it all, so it was just herds of time hyping up his win which really ruined the suspense. Especially when they made that fluff piece talking about how #100 has never kanzened (which was a dead giveaway). Honestly, 24 did it the best IMO when it came to kanzen editing. Then again it helped having 5 people in the final with 1 winning when 2 were still left to run. They were all given proper coverage, they all were subtlely handled when it came to clearing Stage 3 and it felt like there was some surpise to be had. 38 (and to a lesser extent 31) had none of that because by the time we got to certain competitors it was clear who the champion was going to be with so much time left in the broadcast.
And I get Kawaguchi getting higher numbers for being more marketable than Tada (as Tada is pretty low key in that regard), but it was still pretty bad in terms of bias (and they just intercutted so much sideline footage during Kawaguchi's run to pad it out). I'm not against Tada being FF'ed. I get why they chose to FF him, but honestly like you said they could've digested someone like Sato or even Ryo and it wouldn't have really mattered. But Tada actually had some legit potential to clear that was ruined by said edit. Same with Isa, I knew he was flubbing early the second I saw those digests. I knew he was digressing from 37 thanks to said editing and so he did.
|
|
|
Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Jul 13, 2021 17:53:07 GMT -5
this may be an odd one but why is it that you see Shingo do the 3rd best in SASUKE 2 with the #20 and the next tourney his number DROPPED!? You'd think he'd be put in the 80's or higher but... nah give him 13. Hey still my lucky number. I'll let it slide... THIS time.
|
|