Who had the fastest downfall ?

[LusitaniaAngel313]

Has anyone said Daisuke Nakata yet? I mean we get it was obvious as soon as his wrists got injured, that was pretty much it... Omori is obvious, Yamada too. Shingo was rather gradual but I feel he's getting back up. Tomo is turning into #Casual. Ryo seems to be degrading a bit. Shunsuke suddenly dropped after 19 and then things fell into pieces. Just general ideas.

[salt]

Jul 13, 2021 17:56:41 GMT -5 LusitaniaAngel313 said:

Has anyone said Daisuke Nakata yet? I mean we get it was obvious as soon as his wrists got injured, that was pretty much it... Omori is obvious, Yamada too. Shingo was rather gradual but I feel he's getting back up. Tomo is turning into #Casual. Ryo seems to be degrading a bit. Shunsuke suddenly dropped after 19 and then things fell into pieces. Just general ideas.

I’m not really sure I’d include Daisuke Nakata, since after his accident he retired after only 3 more tournaments. And in 2 of those, he didn’t even do badly, making it back to the third stage, and clearing the Shin first stage on his first try. I’d group him with Bunpei or Okuyama, both of which may have been starting a decline, but didn’t keep competing long enough for it to really show.

[subtleagent]

I'm tempted to say Nakata's failure in 12 was just another fluke. 13 was due to an ankle Yeah he failed it in his first run during the trials, but the weather played into a lot of failures in their first runs. I personally thought him getting to Stage 3 in 17 was pretty impressive considering his injury (the fact that he beat the Metal Spin with those hands was definitely insane and G4 digesting that was just dumb), granted he flubbed the Arm Rings in Stage 3. Honestly after 21 I don't blame him for retiring, it just really wasn't worth continuously re-injuring himself just for a game show.

I do think personally he could've went further in 17 had he not been injured, but it just didn't happen. So I do think it's a little unfair to say he entered decline when his injuries were mainly the cause of that and he implicitly would've made it further had he not been injured. All that said though, he probably still wouldn't have been Final Stage material.

Upper body and speed were two of his weaknesses even before his accident. They cut most of his SASUKE 8 Stage 2 run, but in his SASUKE 9 intro he was shown to only have 32 seconds when he got to the Spider Walk so it's probable that he spent a lot of time on the Chain Reaction (granted rain, but still the time limit in Stage 2 in that tournament was pretty lax all things considered, though I think the weather scared the producers into giving the 10 second time boost from SASUKE 7 and if they haven't Shoei and Kane would have timed out).

Either way, Nakata was definitely difficult to say in terms of decline since honestly he felt more like one of the more stagnant ones. He was good for a lot of Stage 1 clears (7 out of 9, that honestly isn't too bad all things considered), and his Stage 2 failures seemed to be more on unfortunate circumstance (rain and injuries respectively) rather than his actual physical/mental capabilities, but he really had no real shot at Stage 3 (compare that to say Kouji Hashimoto who had a similar record of his Stage 1 clears being consistent and his Stage 2 fails being more freak accidents, but he had a legit shot at reaching the Final Stage again if not conquering it and I honestly think had he kept going he might've reached it a few more times).

[SasukeBanzukeNo1 (Moon12)]

Jul 14, 2021 12:34:55 GMT -5 subtleagent said:

I'm tempted to say Nakata's failure in 12 was just another fluke. 13 was due to an ankle Yeah he failed it in his first run during the trials, but the weather played into a lot of failures in their first runs. I personally thought him getting to Stage 3 in 17 was pretty impressive considering his injury (the fact that he beat the Metal Spin with those hands was definitely insane and G4 digesting that was just dumb), granted he flubbed the Arm Rings in Stage 3. Honestly after 21 I don't blame him for retiring, it just really wasn't worth continuously re-injuring himself just for a game show.

I do think personally he could've went further in 17 had he not been injured, but it just didn't happen. So I do think it's a little unfair to say he entered decline when his injuries were mainly the cause of that and he implicitly would've made it further had he not been injured. All that said though, he probably still wouldn't have been Final Stage material.

Upper body and speed were two of his weaknesses even before his accident. They cut most of his SASUKE 8 Stage 2 run, but in his SASUKE 9 intro he was shown to only have 32 seconds when he got to the Spider Walk so it's probable that he spent a lot of time on the Chain Reaction (granted rain, but still the time limit in Stage 2 in that tournament was pretty lax all things considered, though I think the weather scared the producers into giving the 10 second time boost from SASUKE 7 and if they haven't Shoei and Kane would have timed out).

Either way, Nakata was definitely difficult to say in terms of decline since honestly he felt more like one of the more stagnant ones. He was good for a lot of Stage 1 clears (7 out of 9, that honestly isn't too bad all things considered), and his Stage 2 failures seemed to be more on unfortunate circumstance (rain and injuries respectively) rather than his actual physical/mental capabilities, but he really had no real shot at Stage 3 (compare that to say Kouji Hashimoto who had a similar record of his Stage 1 clears being consistent and his Stage 2 fails being more freak accidents, but he had a legit shot at reaching the Final Stage again if not conquering it and I honestly think had he kept going he might've reached it a few more times).

In his defense, I'd say that Nakata's failure in 12 was pretty justified since the Rolling Maruta was modified a bit in 11 to make the log go faster and have more revolutions (which is the reason why it had the most failures that tournament). Even though Nakata was able beat it in 11, it was one quick revolution too much for him in 12. And of course without his wrists injuries, he could have cleared stage 1 in 16. He possibly would have had a 100% stage one clear rate (9/9; the highest ever--which is even higher than Kane) if it weren't for those unfortunate circumstances, but who knows if he still would have competed after 21. Still, like you said, 7/9 is still something to cherish about.

Going into 17, not only was it foolish for G4 to digest his stage two run (even though Monster9 fully broadcasted it), but also that Monster9 itself still digested his first stage run as well. Even though it was known prior that he had his motorcycle accident not too long ago, and that they've shown his whole run in 16 timing out on the last obstacle, it seem they didn't care enough to fully show his redemption run the next tournament. Seriously though, that Metal Spin attempt was clutch lol.

As for stage three in that same tournament, without those injuries I'd say he would have finally made it to the Cliffhanger (only to fail it of course). Since the Globe Grasp was removed long ago by the Curtain Cling, I think he would have been able to beat it and finally get to that awaited Cliffhanger. But yea, that's probably it.

And I have to say, his final run in 21 didn't really end on the best of notes, because of his stage two disaster, but clearing a more arduous and complex stage one for the first and only time sort of compensated for that. No matter how he would do in stage two (or beyond), clearing stage one with his condition was a well-respected final run indeed. Retiring after that was probably the best choice for him, although it would have been cool if he came back in 30 like Bunpei (since he last competed in 21 and could hardly compete after that due to injuries as well). 

[dakohosu]

I wouldn't really say Daisuke Nakata comes into mind for a number of reasons. Firstly, Nakata I'd argue wasn't really known for being a massively top-level competitor like Nagano was, rather he was simply quite consistent at delivering fairly strong performances but nothing groundbreaking. He never lost that consistency, just he struggled a bit more here and there on Stages 1 and 2 but still managed to reach Stage 3 again in Sasuke 17. The fact that he remained consistent throughout his tenure at Sasuke goes a long way, because I personally view a decline as the change in a 2-3 tournament moving average of results given that one Stage 1 freak fail here and there doesn't necessarily constitute a decline. Nakata's 3-tournament moving average at best was his three consecutive Stage 3 attempts; while the same average for his last three tournaments was a close Stage 1 fail, a Stage 3 attempt, and a Stage 2 attempt. So he went from being a fairly strong competitor, to I'd argue (given the increase in difficulty throughout his tenure), a fairly strong competitor arguably no longer in his prime.

Compare this to someone like Ryo who was a real threat to Kanzen and displayed this by reaching the Final Stage twice in four tournaments, to immediately entering an almost unrecoverable Stage 1 blockade. Kanno as well; 4 Stage 3 attempts in a row immediately followed by five straight Stage 1 failures. These declines are way steeper than Nakata's ever was, given that both Ryo and Kanno started their decline at a much higher level relative to the field than Nakata was (given that Nakata had no real shot at clearing Stage 3 whereas Ryo and Kanno both did and were among the top 2-3 competitors of their respective eras), and ended up right at the bottom of the barrel. 

My point is that both Ryo and Kanno went from delivering consistently top level results to consistently mediocre results; Nakata's results were never that groundbreaking, but never reached mediocrity. So by that regard his 'decline' was much less steep and sudden than some other examples discussed here.

[salt]

The Rolling Maruta is one of those obstacles where it seems that no one, no matter how skilled, is guaranteed to clear it. Even in 38, it still caused trouble, and that’s after decades of the obstacle being a staple. I can forgive a fail or two on that thing.

[subtleagent]

Let's also not forget it nearly took out Shingo in 4 and 16 and actually did take him out in 6, as well as taking out Iketani in 8 and nearly taking out Yamada in 5 and 16. Also Yuuji got shook up by it pretty badly in 25 so it's definitely not an obstacle to be taken lightly.

[LusitaniaAngel313]

There's a reason why it took so many out in the tournaments that was in. The dizzying factor MIGHT have contributed to Yamada failing in 15 due to a lack of balance.