Which runs could’ve been Kanzens if it wasn’t for ...?

[tns8597]

Which runs do you think could’ve been Kanzens if it wasn’t for a certain slip-up/mistake/physical or mental error?

Obvs there are loads so give those that particularly stood out to you, preferably those that were in the competitor's hands and not due to something out of their control like weather, or them running out of strength, because neither of those things can be helped (hence not counting Nagano in 21 or in 23, for example, or David Campbell in 27). 

Ones that stand out to me were:
- Travis Schroeder in Sasuke 4: his aggressive all-in tactics worked until the Pipe Slider, where they caused the bar to derail; it was also my understanding that he actually cleared the stage (someone correct me if I'm wrong) then got disqualified). So he clearly had the capability to have made the jump, and given his Navy background the Final Stage would've been no trouble for him.
- Shinji Kobayashi in Sasuke 11: his level of speed would've put him in really good stead for the Final Stage; if only he'd actually mustered up the courage to have attempted the Pipe Slider jump.... I'm not including his run in 14 given that the Pipe Slider jump was much harder than the one he failed and given how many swings he needed on the Devil Balanco he would've most likely run out of strength like Koji Yamada did in 16.
- Bunpei Shiratori in Sasuke 13: given how close he came to Kanzen in 12 and his tireless training, he would've no doubt done better on the Final Stage if he'd had another shot at it. His jump was just inches away from being a second consecutive Final Stage attempt; if only he'd kept the bar straight/prevented it from rolling back like he did in 12 (I know, way easier said than done). I'm not including his run in 16 because his jump was way off the mark and seemed much more a function of his exhaustion, while in 13 he actually landed but just slipped backwards.

[Kane-Not-Kosugi]

I'm gonna go with Final Stage runs only because everyone else failed the obstacles on their own account. The only exception to this for me is Nagano in 21. Here are all of my Final Stage run picks:

Little wishful on this one but Shingo in 7

Kane in 8

Nagano in 23

Kong in 24

Yusuke in 36

[tns8597]

My choices were actually the opposite (granted the above edit was after you posted yours); I tended to pick ones that could've been legitimate Kanzens if the competitor didn't do something dumb in effectiveness.

I suppose there's an argument that Kong getting tangled in the safety wire could've been attributed to him as it didn't happen to any other competitor?

[Ninja Relaxer]

I just finished re-watching Sasuke 6, and I have to say, Yamada looked absolutely commanding until his mishap on the Pipe Slider. Every other competitor struggled like mad on Stage 3 (especially the Body Prop), but Yamada just breezed through it like it was nothing. If he hadn't fallen off the mat at the end, I think he could have gone on to kanzen in the Final Stage.

[ChiBiJKT48]

Yes, Travis did Clear in SASUKE 4, but was told that he was DQed. His interview even suggest that as the interviewer said "It was a great job but it's not really in accepted way, so, I'm very sorry to tell you that." *also, side-tracking, don't y'all miss interviewer who can speak English directly rather than them being helped by Translator, LOL* and the second pipe was at the end of the track and he wasn't wet while doing the interview, so there is no doubt he succeed the jump.

Yamada Katsumi in SASUKE 5 came into mind, he was in great shape, people tipped him as favourite, but his movement in which he decided to hop a bit while clearing Ugokukabe make him slip. A tiny decision that cost him victory. And don't get me started on SASUKE 6, that was the Gods of Midoriyama speaking for me.

[subtleagent]

Hashimoto in 27. 27's final was arguably easier and he looked at the top of his game. Has he not messed up the Chain See-Saw I guarantee he'd have kanzened.

[Kane-Not-Kosugi]

See my thing is like if they're gonna mess up on obstacles prior to Stage 4 due to their own skill/focus/lack of technique, they weren't gonna kanzen. That's my honest belief.

[tns8597]

Apr 5, 2021 13:58:49 GMT -5 Kane-Not-Kosugi said:

See my thing is like if they're gonna mess up on obstacles prior to Stage 4 due to their own skill/focus/lack of technique, they weren't gonna kanzen. That's my honest belief.

That is fair.

My personal argument is that some slip-ups almost seemed too bad/unlucky to be true, because it's almost as though everything that could've gone wrong went wrong, and the competitor concerned would've had a genuine shot at Kanzen otherwise.

I suppose a key example of what I'm talking about would've been Nagano in 16, where he made an awful faux pas on the Devil Balanco; his performance only the tournament after consolidated that he would've likely achieved Kanzen if it wasn't for that single mistake. 

[zoran]

Apr 6, 2021 5:09:50 GMT -5 tns8597 said:

Apr 5, 2021 13:58:49 GMT -5 Kane-Not-Kosugi said:

See my thing is like if they're gonna mess up on obstacles prior to Stage 4 due to their own skill/focus/lack of technique, they weren't gonna kanzen. That's my honest belief.

That is fair.

My personal argument is that some slip-ups almost seemed too bad/unlucky to be true, because it's almost as though everything that could've gone wrong went wrong, and the competitor concerned would've had a genuine shot at Kanzen otherwise.

I suppose a key example of what I'm talking about would've been Nagano in 16, where he made an awful faux pas on the Devil Balanco; his performance only the tournament after consolidated that he would've likely achieved Kanzen if it wasn't for that single mistake. 

Nagano kanzening in 16 probably wouldn't be likely due to the tournament being a winter tournament. Nagano lives in the hot south of Japan and as such isn't really used to the colder temperatures, hence why he wears the black vest as opposed to his regular outfit. It's likely he would have failed the pipe slider jump as he barely made it in 17 or would have simply timed out.

[tns8597]

zoran You might be right. He has done significantly better in summer tournaments from what I can remember. Sure he made the Final Stage in 11 and 13 that were both taped in winter, but he still did better in 12 which was taped in the autumn.

In Shin-Sasuke he did really well in 21 and 23 (both summer tournaments), yet sucked a** in 22, 24, 25, and 26, all aired in winter, then did well in 27 which was taped in the summer.

Sure, there were exceptions like Sasuke 19, but that doesn't count because of how anomalously hard the course was, and Sasuke 15 was obvs THE summer tournament of all summer tournaments but he got caught off guard by a modification he couldn't have trained for.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this lol, but there does seem to be a trend that can't really be ignored....

[Kane-Not-Kosugi]

See but even then Nagano made the mistake himself in 16. I can only really say "what if" if there was an obstacle malfunction or something out of place. Heck, I can't even really say Yamada in 6 was one that could've been a Kanzen based off that logic but I agree with it- he messed up.

[tns8597]

I don't think Yamada would've Kanzen'd in 6 anyway (contrary to popular belief).

If it took 13 tournaments and 4 attempts from NAGANO to beat the Final Stage, then I really doubt Yamada who even in his prime was bigger/less agile and consistently slower than the former across every stage, would've beaten it straight off the bat.

Also knowing him he would've found a way to let his own mental state get the better of him; like trying a tactic that would end up backfiring as has usually been the case with his runs.

[ninja1985]

Do you think Travis Allen Schroeder was intentionally given a disqualification?

[ChiBiJKT48]

Nope, LOL. I get we had sense that TBS sometimes dislike international competitors, but, he push the pipe off the track which is totally illegal and dangerous. What if the wire holding the pipe snapped? He would have a dangerous fall there. TBS had reason to DQ-ed him and it was totally logical.

[tns8597]

No. The intended approach for the obstacle is in the name; sliding the pipe along the track. Travis derailed the pipe from the track and so was fairly disqualified.

His approach of just attacking every obstacle with brute force worked up until then, but his blunt power just didn’t fit the smooth tactical strategy required to complete the Pipe Slider.

[hoseasasuke]

I'd say Nagano in 24. The man was tipped to clear all 4 stages, and would have if it wasn't for the slip-up that would mark the beginning of the end for him.

[SasukeDoctor]

Apr 6, 2021 15:04:19 GMT -5 tns8597 said:

I don't think Yamada would've Kanzen'd in 6 anyway (contrary to popular belief).

If it took 13 tournaments and 4 attempts from NAGANO to beat the Final Stage, then I really doubt Yamada who even in his prime was bigger/less agile and consistently slower than the former across every stage, would've beaten it straight off the bat.

Also knowing him he would've found a way to let his own mental state get the better of him; like trying a tactic that would end up backfiring as has usually been the case with his runs.

I personally think he would have done it in 3 had he had five more seconds.

[subtleagent]

Anyone else feel Naoya Tajima might've had the Gliding Ring stopper not messed him up in 24? He basically destroyed the Third Stage and arguably had the most impressive run had the stopper not eaten him. IDK about his rope climbing skills, but I'm just saying there's a possibility he would have.

[zoran]

Koji Hashimoto in 27, given his performance in 24's final and the easier final in 27 along with his expanded strength and skill.

[tns8597]

Tbh I think David Campbell could've done in 27 as well, had he hung on for just another 2 seconds on the UCH. I mean the guy literally achieved Kanzen on Sasuke Vietnam on a harder Final Stage.

Late response but I think what might've stopped Tajima was his height. Yes he wasn't that much shorter than Yuuji but I do feel like it's a genuine disadvantage on the Heavenly Ladder to be short and stocky like he was. You're still heavy relative to your height but you don't have the arm or leg reach. That's why Kongu did so well until you-know-what happened, he was by far the tallest of the guys who attempted that Final Stage.

One that always comes as a burning 'maybe' to me is Bunpei in 17 if he hadn't failed the Body Prop. Sure there's obvs a big difference between failing the Body Prop and reaching the Final, but given Bunpei's past track record it almost seemed as though it was some sort of freak accident that just happened because he slipped. I think this is always on my mind because Bunpei's technique was second to none, so no doubt he would've aggressively trained the Pipe Slider that took him out last year.