zoran
Jessie Graff
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Post by zoran on Jun 3, 2021 3:36:48 GMT -5
Here's one Nagano became an All-Star too soon. Not that I don't think he deserved to be an All-Star and he very much earned it, but they only named him for making it to the Pipe Slider in 9 when IMO it would've made more sense to name him one in 11 when he made the final. By the former logic Kobayashi could've been named an All-Star for making it to the Pipe Slider in 11 (in his debut no less). Again not trying to devalue Nagano's accomplishments, but I really think they jumped the gun with him in 9 and just ended up lucky. The All stars as a group weren't really set up that much on skill but more on promotion. They wanted a group of guys they could promote after Kosugi left. Nagano's Sasuke 9 performance was fresh in the mind of the average viewer, seeing this guy come out of nowhere and dominate, nearly beating the hardest(by a wide margin) third stage. Nagano's location in the south of Japan was ideal as it expanded the geographical reach the promotion could have(Akiyama was from the North for example). His working class,relatable background along with his casual friendly demeanor solidified their choice.
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zoran
Jessie Graff
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Post by zoran on Jun 3, 2021 3:38:12 GMT -5
Yeah agreed with the above. Especially given that he failed Stage 1 in his first two tries before his breakout in Sasuke 9. Hence for all we know he could've just got really lucky, followed by further sub-par performances (kind of like Akiyama though him being the only champion alone justified his position as an All-Star, regardless of his later performances. Nagano by comparison had one decent Stage 3 run under his belt). No doubt the producers probably got cold feet after Nagano's early fail in Sasuke 10 as this may have implied the above, but luckily for them this was obvs followed by his three straight Final Stage runs. Honestly I think the main reason for his All-Star title at the time was his association with Yamada which was heavily documented in Sasuke 9. And yeah Shinji would've been a good fit for an All-Star but his performances just weren't good enough to be frank. Given that Takeda filled the whole '3rd Stage guy' role in the group, any new addition would've had to have made the Final Stage as well as being fairly consistent, and also having a unique and interesting career/personality that TBS could market. Shinji would've been a cool addition with his unique garbage man job and outfits, and I think he would've been seriously considered had he made the Final in 11 or 14, but ultimately they went with Bunpei because of his better track record and also his 'Shiratori Shrine' was much more of a novelty. Kobayashi by comparison not only didn't become All-Star but ended up getting cut in half of his runs due to him failing Stage 1 in most of his attempts. "Nagano by comparison had one decent Stage 3 run under his belt)." Decent seems like a massive understatement.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 3, 2021 6:41:45 GMT -5
zoran I meant 'decent' in the context of Nagano. While his run was awesome, it didn't portray him as the monster dominator he ended up becoming. While he did destroy Stage 1, he struggled on the Spider Walk and finished Stage 2 with the slowest time, and arguably came close to failing the Cliffhanger. It certainly struck me as a run that could've been construed as him 'getting lucky', which made the fact that that run alone titled him as an All-Star ever more perplexing. Had he done a Sasuke 22 Yuuji-like run (i.e. having zero issues and making the Final Stage) then it would've been more understandable.
Either way, when I meant his run was 'decent', just compare this to his runs in 11-13 and his entire run seemed as though he was just toying with the course. I actually just re-watched bits of his Sasuke 9 run to refresh my mind and it was kind of weird seeing him struggle on certain aspects of the course, aspects that he ended up breezing through later in his career (like his Spider Walk attempt in Sasuke 17). I suppose you could say the same about his runs post-Sasuke 23, but that was kind of expected as he was starting to decline at that point due to age and waning interest.
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Post by subtleagent on Jun 3, 2021 11:02:49 GMT -5
Yeah it's unfortunate that Kobayashi could never deliver consistently. When you take away 11 and 14 (and maybe 16) his career starts to look a lot less impressive. Though I chalk this up more on bad luck. 12 and 15 seemed more like freak accidents, 13 was a modification (though I'd argue 13's Jump Hang was actually easier), and then came Shin-SASUKE where he was more or less left behind.
And yeah, Nagano definitely looked a lot less graceful in 9 compared to most tournaments after that where he'd just blaze through (Spider Walk was nothing to him) and have enough time to walk through the Wall Lift. As for his feigned kohai/senpai relationship with Yamada TBS just took that to ridiculous levels of focus (so much so that he had to finally step in when enough was enough). But ANW can attest, the more story you have to tell the more likely you'll be getting focus (just ask Paul Kasemir). So it's probable that Nagano just rolled with it since it got him an in with the show.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 3, 2021 11:45:12 GMT -5
Kobayashi was a weird one. On his successful runs he seemingly had an effortless grace and speed which you’d think would play to his advantage on Stage 1 but I think he just has a penchant for making dumb errors (though we can’t really be sure as most of his runs were just cut).
He also doesn’t seem to fare well on trampoline obstacles, given that he failed the Jump Hang twice and the Jumping Spider in his only shown Shin-Sasuke run (which was frankly one of the worst attempts I’d ever seen). There was even some footage of him practicing the jump at the Shiratori Shrine; Nagano stood in front of him as a sort of height buffer and Kobayashi ended up teabagging him because his jump was so poor. I also get the impression his first run might’ve given him some pressure in later tournaments but I can’t be sure.
It’s a shame he never mustered up the courage to just go for the jump in 11 (one of his swings would’ve probably been successful), as that was arguably his only real chance at Total Victory, in his debut no less. 14 I don’t count because even if he had made the Devil Balanco there is no way in hell he was making that brutal Pipe Slider dismount, the same iteration that Nagano nearly failed.
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Post by Ninja Relaxer on Jun 3, 2021 15:17:26 GMT -5
As for [Nagano's] feigned kohai/senpai relationship with Yamada TBS just took that to ridiculous levels of focus I never believed the best-friends stuff -- it always seemed to me that Nagano took pity on Yamada and did what he could to help him -- but I never knew that Nagano actually told TBS to tone it down. Where'd you hear that?
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Post by subtleagent on Jun 3, 2021 19:27:17 GMT -5
On ramblingrican's SASUKE 30 review (back when it was still a SASUKE blog). It was mentioned Nagano got annoyed with the constant pushing of the friendship and TBS reluctantly dropped the ruse. Of course that didn't stop them from continuing to use that fake room (which wasn't even on his old ship) in some intros.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jun 3, 2021 21:56:34 GMT -5
Interesting. Nagano's best friend on the show was obviously Takeda, and it seems he was more so buddy buddy with everyone else comparatively. It's hard to know why Nagano and Takeda clicked so well though. Not like I'm blaming either one of them for liking the other though, they're probably my top 2 favorites of all time.
It's probably partially to due with their competitiveness (Although Nagano barely tried to secure top times) on Stage 1 as they were both the top 2 on it consistently before Shin Sasuke. That and Takeda probably made Nagano laugh a lot.
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Post by subtleagent on Jun 3, 2021 23:49:45 GMT -5
Probably because Takeda was generally a fun person to be around and that probably worked well with Nagano's outgoing and friendly personality. Probably also why Shingo fit in pretty well.
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Jun 6, 2021 11:42:30 GMT -5
Regarding Nagano being All-Stars....
They had to pick him. They got no choice. All-Stars was created way back in SASUKE 6 *remember, the Opening of SASUKE 6 was the very first time we hear the term of All-Stars* and it consist of... 13 Members. Yes, 13. They are Akiyama Kazuhiko, Hatakeda Yoshiaki, Kane Kosugi, Kudo Junichiro, Nakamura Shigeyuki, Nicholas Pettas, Omori Akira, Shane Kosugi, Shoei, Takeda Toshihiro, Yamada Katsumi, Yamamoto Shingo, and Yusa Masami *for those of you who are Sportsman fans, you might recognise few of them. Yes, that is exactly how they got picked. They do well on Sportsman*.
Now you see SASUKE 9, the tournament Nagano rise to fame. Where are the majority of the All-Stars? Either retired or simply being a total failure at that point. Show is dying due to Banzuke's problem. And they got a story to sell in Yamada-Nagano's relationship *which, again, as pointed out by many, is a fake one, or at best, forced by TBS*. Yamada did average, while Nagano? Best in the tournament. Shane retiring after SASUKE 9, you really want All-Stars consist of just four Members only from original 13 Members? That's why Nagano was inserted into the group.
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Post by Ninja Relaxer on Jun 6, 2021 13:31:09 GMT -5
*remember, the Opening of SASUKE 6 was the very first time we hear the term of All-Stars* I would like to remember, but I've never seen the original Japanese broadcasts.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 6, 2021 14:33:31 GMT -5
TBS picking Nagano in Sasuke 9 was basically the equivalent of TBS picking Asa as a member of the New Stars in Sasuke 28, or Kawaguchi in Sasuke 30. Basically someone who did well in that tournament but had no prior noteworthy track record, hence foreshadowing that each respective competitor would do well even before the tournament aired. I guarantee if Nagano failed Stage 1 in Sasuke 9 then they wouldn't have cared whether he was friends with Yamada or not. No big deal though, he would've become All-Star either way given his performances only 2 tournaments later (I'm obvs talking about his three straight Final Stage attempts).
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jun 6, 2021 17:51:07 GMT -5
*remember, the Opening of SASUKE 6 was the very first time we hear the term of All-Stars* I would like to remember, but I've never seen the original Japanese broadcasts. I would like to remember after having seen the original Japanese broadcasts, but about the only Japanese words/phrases I ever recognize on the broadcast are "Hayai" (fast) and "Maji-Kayo" (shocked way of saying What the hell?).
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Post by subtleagent on Jun 7, 2021 1:26:37 GMT -5
Regarding Nagano being All-Stars.... They had to pick him. They got no choice. All-Stars was created way back in SASUKE 6 *remember, the Opening of SASUKE 6 was the very first time we hear the term of All-Stars* and it consist of... 13 Members. Yes, 13. They are Akiyama Kazuhiko, Hatakeda Yoshiaki, Kane Kosugi, Kudo Junichiro, Nakamura Shigeyuki, Nicholas Pettas, Omori Akira, Shane Kosugi, Shoei, Takeda Toshihiro, Yamada Katsumi, Yamamoto Shingo, and Yusa Masami *for those of you who are Sportsman fans, you might recognise few of them. Yes, that is exactly how they got picked. They do well on Sportsman*. Now you see SASUKE 9, the tournament Nagano rise to fame. Where are the majority of the All-Stars? Either retired or simply being a total failure at that point. Show is dying due to Banzuke's problem. And they got a story to sell in Yamada-Nagano's relationship *which, again, as pointed out by many, is a fake one, or at best, forced by TBS*. Yamada did average, while Nagano? Best in the tournament. Shane retiring after SASUKE 9, you really want All-Stars consist of just four Members only from original 13 Members? That's why Nagano was inserted into the group. Back then All-Stars was used as loosely as Shin Sedai was used prior to 22 (ex. Nagasaki being referred to as such from 17 ~ 19). So the list was always more or less unofficial. The official group was created based off of those who had a history of dominating in the show. Shingo for his two finals, Takeda to his Stage 3 attempts in 6 and 8, Yamada for his Final in 3 and Third Stage runs in 4 and 6, and Akiyama for his Kanzenseiha. Everyone else you mentioned from the SASUKE 6 group had rather mediocre records or just plain didn't fit the bill as most of them were pro-athletes/celebrities which wasn't what the All-Stars were about. The All-Stars were ordinary people doing extraordinary things. The only one you mentioned that could've fit (and by could've I mean I'm really not sure if I would agree with him being picked) by default was Shane, but he fell in Stage 3 almost immediately in his two attempts at it and none of his runs ever really stood out (except maybe SASUKE 7 for outperforming his brother) and his career was overshadowed by Kane's. As tns mentioned, Nagano being named officially in 9 would have just been another Asa in 28, or Kawaguchi in 30 (and I'd even argue Araki, Tada, and Keitaro in 36). At least by naming him one after 11 or 12 it would make sense because he had an amazing track record for his first 5/6 appearances and it would show he had developed consistency. Say he didn't perform well after that and had a sparse record like Shinji, or a short lived golden age like Bunpei. It would make him another Akiyama or Yamada in terms of having a few good early runs occasionally, but sucking throughout the remainder of his career. Nagano, Takeda, Shingo (kind of), and Bunpei at the very least performed well enough consistently throughout their careers to justify their spots. Nagano making it to the Pipe Slider once IMO just really wasn't enough to go on and they just happened to luck out when he performed adequately. Like say they made Asaoka an All-Star for making the Pipe Slider in SASUKE 4, but then flubbing the Jump Hang thrice (then again that happened to Akiyama and the only reason it did was because he kanzened in 4). It would've put TBS's decision into question. Honestly I feel if Asaoka competed in 9 he might've actually been at the very least considered (and would've outright been chosen had he competed in 13). At least after his final in 12 it would've made sense because he showed he had a shot at victory by performing decently in the Final Stage. I think had he kept going and had time to train to the extent he did in 12 he might've had a shot.
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Jun 7, 2021 8:35:32 GMT -5
I would love if it was unofficial, really. But SASUKE 6 Navi list the names. It is officially created by TBS. Don't you think why all those 13 Members got a lot of coverage in the Opening and tournament, as well as majority of them got a very high number *Yusa herself, for example (taking the only woman competitor in All-Stars) is a debutant and she got #86. Not sure there will be something like this in the future for debutants unless they are Celebrities who are invited to boost the rating* in the tournament itself? They are simply things you can't ignore with the editings of the tournament, as all those 13 Members DIDN'T get their run(s) cut or even digested, no matter how bad their performance are *like Yusa being absolute crap due to failing Maruta Nobori, yet they still show her run in full*. Regarding the term not fitting for few.... Well, you never know most of their results prior to the tournament, right? For all we knew, Kane might bottle his SASUKE 6 appearance *and he is not*. Hence my point of Nagano being inserted in SASUKE 10: TBS are panicking over the fact majority of these 13 Members choked hard and they sorta rage-quit SASUKE due to that *there was even a strong evidence, Omori Akira said he retiring at first due to keep getting bad results and people laugh at his failures*. For the All-Stars term, refer to SASUKE 6 in this list: b23.tv/BV1WW411T7cu/p33, listen at around 00:31.
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Post by sackeshi on Jun 7, 2021 10:21:48 GMT -5
Speaking of Sasuke 6 I don't know why they changed stage 2 when they were 0.1 away from no clears. The tackle was way harder then the narrow that came after.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 7, 2021 10:25:06 GMT -5
^maybe that was the point. They didn’t want a Stage 2 ending (unlike a certain tournament that came later....) so they eased off the difficulty of Stage 2 to ensure that we got some Stage 3 attempts/some sort of progression from the previous tournament. Besides, Stage 1 was hard enough as we only got 3 clears last time round and 5 clears in Sasuke 6, and the stage felled the first 82 competitors which is still a record to this day.
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Post by subtleagent on Jun 7, 2021 13:07:57 GMT -5
I feel like 5's Stage 2 would've had better results had there been more clears. Of those who attempted it Takeda was a newb, Shingo was injured, and Yamada was... well... Yamada. To me it was the right amount of deadly where going too fast could result in a slip, while going too slow could result in a timeout.
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Post by sackeshi on Jun 16, 2021 7:31:58 GMT -5
The rolling log is probably the most unfair obstacle of all time. Sometimes people fail to center their gravity and it comes off the tracks but other times people are fully centered and it will fall off or stop for seemingly no reason at all.
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Post by subtleagent on Jun 16, 2021 22:05:55 GMT -5
To me it seems most people who either halted or derailed it were not completely centered on the log and I even recall a few people in 9 lucking out and having it slide down the track. In order to get the log to go, you need to get a good enough shift of weight, stick to the log (as in you need to cling to the log and not hang off of it), and you need to remain centered. Those who derailed it generally weren't centered on the log and those who stopped it let themselves hang off the log rather than acting like they were glued to it.
Looking at 38 for Ryo and Araki the log halted because the former was off center so it caused the one end of the log to shift and thankfully for him it stopped while he was above the log so he could just slide over and he was good to go again, while the latter nearly fell off and ended up stuck below the log because most of his body was off of it and he had to rock it back and forth to get it going again (this only worked because that Rolling Log is thinner, had it been the old one he'd have ended up timing out on it or being forced to roll it manually).
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