|
Post by subtleagent on May 23, 2021 1:04:34 GMT -5
Here's one: SASUKE 14's Third Stage should have been introduced in 13 instead and nerfing it in 16 was unnecessary.
|
|
tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
100%
Posts: 1,282
|
Post by tns8597 on May 23, 2021 6:10:24 GMT -5
Yeah agreed on that one given how we got 10 attempts on Stage 3 in Sasuke 12, 5 of which made it to the Pipe Slider, and 3 of which cleared. Everytime we've had such strong results on Stage 3, we've always seen a shake-up afterwards, such as after Sasuke 3 and Sasuke 36 (referring to non-renewals). We did get the Curtain Cling in 13 but that was neither here nor there tbh.
Having said that, the results in Sasuke 13 were significantly worse than in 12. 12 saw a near-100% clear rate on Stage 2 compared to only 50% in Sasuke 13 despite the stages being identical, and everyone bar Kobayashi Masaaki did worse on Stage 3. Takeda failed the Cliffhanger which he passed in 12, Shiratori failed the Pipe Slider which he passed in 12, Iketani failed the Body Prop which he passed in his last Stage 3 attempt, and Nagano did worse in the Final Stage than in 12. That's always been quite a strange nuance to me, how the results in a tournament barely any harder than the last were so much worse. This is personally why I found 13 to be a bit of an odd tournament and one of my least favorite; barely any exciting runs and no noteworthy obstacle modifications.
Hence I feel like had Nagano not made the Final Stage in 13 then 14's Third Stage wouldn't have been a thing, given that the rest of the results were largely subpar and the renewal in 14 was PURELY to stop Nagano alone.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on May 23, 2021 13:05:35 GMT -5
Exactly, and I guess you can argue that the Curtain Cling took out Kobayashi, Hamm, and Shingo and weakened Asaoka in 14 to the point where he failed the Cliffhanger which he passed in 12. But in the long run, the Curtain Cling hardly ever did any real damage and the people it did take out: two of those three had rather meh careers before that, while Shingo was well into decline.
I kind of wanna point out how 12's clears came from the fact that the Cliffhanger end mat was like right above the third ledge in 12, while in 13 it was moved back to the same spot it was in 10 and 11. I feel like that might have been why Takeda's Cliffhanger was cut in 12, because he likely was able to plop down (here's hoping he didn't try to jump to it from the second ledge). Because it does seem a bit odd that his was cut when no other Cliffhanger attempt besides his ever was. Every digest that's ever happened besides his from SASUKE 4 onward always showed a Cliffhanger attempt, so it was weird to see him as the odd one out. In 13 he had more ledge to traverse with an injury so I imagine that played a part.
|
|
tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
100%
Posts: 1,282
|
Post by tns8597 on May 23, 2021 13:58:41 GMT -5
True but you could argue that Asaoka wouldn’t have had as much of an issue had he trained to the degree he did for 12. Remember the guy took 6 months off his job to train hence why he went from a rubbish Stage 3 attempt in 10 to making the Final Stage. In his attempt in 14 it seemed as though he was sort of on his way out/his interest was waning, he didn’t train as much etc as he barely cleared Stage 1 and quit the following tournament.
The Curtain Cling seemed to cause much more of a burn on the hands than anything else, but it’s difficulty spike over the Lamp Grasper wasn’t really sufficient as an overall difficulty buff to address the high success rate in 12.
I do feel that the extended back end of Stage 3 couldn’t have come soon enough. The first track of the Pipe Slider did literally no damage in its entire tenure, especially as the whole difficulty aspect behind it was the jump at the end rather than actually sliding the pipe. The extended jump distance in the renewal though was absolutely brutal. In other iterations (including the most recent one) you can almost reach the landing platform with your feet (I mean Rene literally did) but the 14-17 jump was so difficult that even Nagano almost failed.
As a climber and calisthenics athlete I personally don’t think I’d have much problem with the pre-Nagano Kanzen Stage 3s, but that Pipe Slider jump no way in hell....
|
|
|
Post by wrestlingfan55 on May 23, 2021 14:09:13 GMT -5
Regarding Terek, I wouldn't say he was overhyped. His run in 17 was very impressive, and you can't blame him for not being able to move across a 3cm ledge with his frame. Also the way he improvised on obstacles like the Curtain Cling was different. The fact he made it that far was impressive enough. Just as impressive as Shinsuke making it to Stage 4, for example.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on May 23, 2021 20:24:00 GMT -5
Well true, though you could argue the same for Koji Yamada, but he managed to beat arguably the hardest First Stage in the show's history.
Same with Hashimoto, he arguably would have beaten Stage 2 in 29 had it not been for the Backstream being near impossible for him and Shingo. Okuyama too if his ankle didn't break and he didn't get drowned by 29's Backstream.
Perhaps Asaoka just lost interest, but that doesn't guarantee a decline. Some athletes are at their peak when they quit.
|
|
tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
100%
Posts: 1,282
|
Post by tns8597 on May 24, 2021 4:26:48 GMT -5
Well Asaoka didn't compete in 13 and changed careers, so I just gathered that after having taken half a year off his job and still failing to achieve Total Victory, that he just figured enough was enough and started training way less. Regardless it was still impressive he made it to the Third Stage in his next attempt; makes me wonder if he'd been made an All-Star had he competed in 13 (given that Bunpei also failed Stage 3 in his next attempt and that was used as the rationale for his All-Star status).
Also Okuyama wasn't losing interest, he was forced to retire due to the Cross Slider injury (another reason for me to hate that iteration of Stage 2). Hashimoto didn't either, rather he felt too much pressure competing which was a shame but it is what it is. Koji Yamada was a weird one given that you're right he gave arguably his most impressive run bar in 16 before quitting, but you never know competitors' exact reasons for quitting unless they'd failed Stage 1 several times before retiring, which none of the above examples did. Asaoka I just figured his interest was waning given that he literally failed Stage 1 once for the first time in years (a Stage 1 that took out a load of notable competitors due to the heat) and then just never returned.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on May 24, 2021 11:03:47 GMT -5
Well some quit Sasuke because they have life commitments and don't have as much time to train. Maybe Asaoka was one of those. We know Nagasaki has become this. He just still chooses to compete. I recall Paul Hamm and Shane Kosugi said something along those lines as well.
|
|
tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
100%
Posts: 1,282
|
Post by tns8597 on May 24, 2021 14:16:10 GMT -5
I’m honestly surprised Nagasaki still competes given that TBS don’t seem to like him and he barely ever trains for Sasuke nowadays. I’m expecting him to retire in the next couple of tournaments frankly.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on May 24, 2021 19:26:23 GMT -5
Maybe like the All-Stars he's just running for fun nowadays. I mean he is pretty popular amongst the crowd so I know they want him to keep going.
|
|
|
Post by darthvaderlim on May 25, 2021 2:35:58 GMT -5
As much as I dislike Sasuke 28, Akiyama and Yamada's retirements were one of the most emotional moments in the show.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on May 25, 2021 11:50:45 GMT -5
Honestly, I think this is more because Akiyama was clearly ready for retirement, while Yamada... well you all know that one.
|
|
tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
100%
Posts: 1,282
|
Post by tns8597 on May 25, 2021 14:15:32 GMT -5
Akiyama had been ready for retirement for a long time, hence why after Sasuke 17 he competed really sporadically and barely ever trained anymore.
And while Yamada didn't technically retire (he competed in 30, 33, and 38), it was emotional as he was leaving the old Yamada behind, the obsessively delusional and jealous character that he once was before. That's why I found his post-run interview so moving, because unlike his past claims it actually meant something, as in the following tournament he decided to introduce the Black Tigers and try and live his dream through training the younger generation. I'm actually quite proud of how he's developed as a character over the last 8 years or so, especially as prior to that he was just sinking into an ever-deeper hole of doubt and delusion.
|
|
|
Post by m4tt3r0x on May 25, 2021 19:06:01 GMT -5
Agree and disagree. In Yamada's interview he said he thinks he failed to be a leader and is known for being a bit of a crybaby. It was admirable to see him admit that. Still he got banned again for something that happened during Sasuke 30, unbanned, and still during that time was often getting between the Sega guy and the camera when he cleared the First Stage, especially the first or second time when he practically walked down the winner's carpet as if he was the one that just cleared the stage.
Still though, I believe Yamada has greatly improved barring those hiccups.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on May 25, 2021 20:09:45 GMT -5
Yeah, Akiyama was technically the first to retire (if one doesn't count Bunpei as a retirement after 21.) Technically technically it was Yamada, but I need not explain why he's not. It was clear Akiyama was losing interest and with his eyes worsening, it was only a matter of time before his running of the course would be considered a danger to him. Honestly I feel he should have retired after 17, but I suppose he was running for fun after that so I can't really complain.
|
|
|
Post by sackeshi on May 26, 2021 5:52:11 GMT -5
If Akiyama didn't get lucky with surviving the pipe slider gap in SASUKE 4 Yamada would have been the first champion.
|
|
tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
100%
Posts: 1,282
|
Post by tns8597 on May 26, 2021 6:08:00 GMT -5
If Akiyama didn't get lucky with surviving the pipe slider gap in SASUKE 4 Yamada would have been the first champion. But surely the same thing would've just happened with the Pipe Slider as in Sasuke 6 or Sasuke 10? I think Schroeder would've probably achieved Kanzen in Sasuke 5, if not him then possibly Shingo.
|
|
|
Post by sackeshi on May 26, 2021 6:21:42 GMT -5
If Akiyama didn't get lucky with surviving the pipe slider gap in SASUKE 4 Yamada would have been the first champion. But surely the same thing would've just happened with the Pipe Slider as in Sasuke 6 or Sasuke 10? I think Schroeder would've probably achieved Kanzen in Sasuke 5, if not him then possibly Shingo. Didn't the gap get extended after the win in 4? But yeah I guess you're probably right.
|
|
tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
100%
Posts: 1,282
|
Post by tns8597 on May 26, 2021 6:27:49 GMT -5
I looked it up, apparently not.
I’m going with Schroeder because he would’ve achieved victory in 4 had he not derailed the Pipe Slider as he cleared the jump before being disqualified.
That said, given that we got 37 clears in Sasuke 4, I’m sure that Stage 1 would’ve been modified in one way, shape or form so there’s no guarantee he would’ve cleared in 5, especially if they decided to add the Warped Wall which caused him to fail that tournament anyway.
|
|
|
Post by subtleagent on May 26, 2021 11:30:59 GMT -5
The Grinding Ring from SASUKE 21 should have stayed and the Gliding Ring was unfit for Stage 3.
|
|